Rear end failures.

[Jacka]

In another thread there is lots of references to rear end failures due to tire size and weights in 66 series tractors.I have had many 66 series and and never had a issue. Weighted down my 1066 and pulled 6/16s moldboard plow day in and out. I was told years ago from the guy whom I bought my first 10 (and still have) who bought it new the only problem he ever had with it was pulling a rollover 5/18 plow in H1 and he broke a shaft in the transmission. He said the dealership told him that the high side isn't made for hard tillage.He told me that the High side shaft is smaller than the low side and not made for heavy work.I don't know if that's true because I never been inside of any of mine. They all been fine hard workers for me.I also always used the low side to plow and only the high side to disk.Maybe the true mechanics on this sight can clear it up for me.

[Binderoid]

Once saw a vintage Ford advertisement at a New Holland dealership of a 9700 pulling a 7 bottom on-land plow. I asked my friend / counterman if that was really possible, and he said , "yea, if you're plowing sand". Indeed, the soil in the picture did look drill-ready. 
   I think 6 is plenty for a 9700, to leave  a little hp reserve for the tough spots and just generally easier on the tractor. 

[801486]

My 1486 has 18.4x38s no fluid but 3-4 sets of weights.  It would spin some pulling a 21' disk in the hills back when we disked a lot.  The thing that let go on the rear end was the differential.  The mechanic asked if had spun a lot to cause the problem.  

[Diesel Doctor]

1 hour ago, Jacka said:

In another thread there is lots of references to rear end failures due to tire size and weights in 66 series tractors.I have had many 66 series and and never had a issue. Weighted down my 1066 and pulled 6/16s moldboard plow day in and out. I was told years ago from the guy whom I bought my first 10 (and still have) who bought it new the only problem he ever had with it was pulling a rollover 5/18 plow in H1 and he broke a shaft in the transmission. He said the dealership told him that the high side isn't made for hard tillage.He told me that the High side shaft is smaller than the low side and not made for heavy work.I don't know if that's true because I never been inside of any of mine. They all been fine hard workers for me.I also always used the low side to plow and only the high side to disk.Maybe the true mechanics on this sight can clear it up for me.

There was a recall of the 1066's in about 1976 for alleged differential problems.

We had to replace the differentials, gaskets and Hy-Tran in over 20 9's, 10's and 1466's.

We found no bad differentials but found broken bull gears, brake pinions and bearings.

I have never heard what you say about the high side shaft and hard tillage.

The main reason is that H1st is the slowest you can go and still be in high range.

Most plowed here in L3rd or maybe L4th.

 

 

 

[Alan Dinan]

A friend of mine has a 1066 that was loaded for bear when that was their big tractor. Pulled an 11 shank anhydrous toolbar in hills and clay hillsides, never had any issues. He had the engine rebuilt at some point and the local IH mechanic told him that if he put the 9mm? lines on it, it would be turning 300+hp. It’s just been a haying tractor for the last 20 years now.

[supermpuller]

Had 3 different 1066, ran them at 160 hp, never had any rear-end problems pulling 5-18 720 Ih plow, 24 ft, disk and 24 ft field cultivator, 9 shank v ripper

[HydroTek]

Most of my 1066's left the shop at 150hp -- they would run all day , every day at that HP
1466 at 180
Sold a bunch of those tractors in '72-'73

I remember the rearend recall well -- we would have 3 or 4 in the shop at one time
Also for the piston rings not "seating" -- new rings and rabbit turd hone -- then on the dyno for an hour

Had a few guys that wanted more, but I would see them back  in a year or so with failed pinion bearings - or countershaft bearings out

Spider gear problems were from operator error -- spinning to get out of a mud hole - or unbalanced rear weight when plowing -- that stuff can happen no matter the HP

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

“Lots of failures” is a relative term. I know lots of small operators that never put 5,000 hours on a tractor in their entire career. Other guys run machines way over 10,000 in relatively short order. I hear people say such and such tractor is bullet proof because they’ve had it for 30 years and never had a problem, when in reality it’s never really done that much. I consider most major failures under 5,000 hours to be a bad design if it was not abused. Every color of tractor will have major power train failures if it is worked hard for tens of thousands of hours, most well before that. Lots of machines working hard equals large maintenance and repair bills, there’s no way around it. I remember stories of guys destroying 1066’s and 4430’s in just a couple of years, but it was always the same guys asking way more of them then they were designed for. Old 4wds being worn out in less than 5,000 hours was common. 

[Jeff-C-IL]

These old girls are tough, but anything can fail.   I grew up with a wrench in my hands - to this day I think I could assemble a 1066 tranny in the dark.   We had the 1066 & 1486 apart so much the stands were left right beside the work area in the shop.  Almost always rear ends.

Looking back now, I think most was operator error.   The 1486 came from the dealer way overloaded for our heavy black clay soils.  We never checked the weight.  The 1066 was used HARD feeding cattle all winter long, fighting thru belly deep mud to get hay into the feeders.   My dad (& I admit I) used to slap back the TA to slow down on the road.    My dad would rev it up & pop the clutch to get going.  Pretty much everything NOT to do.   

The three big no-nos are: Don't ever use the TA to "downshift" in road gear, Don't "Baby" the TA, shift it quickly, and Don't spin one wheel regularly.   

I know we also ran into the design problems - lower countershaft nut coming off, etc.    I think I have 3-4 worn out quill shafts still sitting around!   

I don't think we ever really had shafts break or anything like that.   

Thing is, I doubt if that other brand would have even been still working after what we put those tractors thru -- and they certainly would have been harder to work on.

[farmallcubkid]

We have a pretty nice original 1456 at our place. It is not ours but we still start it up and move it every now and then, anyways 10 or 15 years ago it developed a really bad transmission wine. The owner had a Case IH dealer come out to pick it up to work on it. They got it to there shop witch was about an hour and a half away and tore it all apart to find out that there was a tooth in the ring gear for the differential  missing. The owner decided that it would cost to much to fix so they put together and brought it back. I don't know what would have caused that. It also has an inner air filter and the last change date was may of 1979. It is still good though so might as well use it. Nice tractor though.

[billonthefarm]

Some guys could run a 1066 weighted for bear and set at 300 hp for decades without issue and the some guys could break the thing in half bare naked and at factory HP settings.  Lots of failures start with the nut behind the wheel.

[acem]

Both of my 1066s had axle bearing failures.  They were heavy pullers for decades and run with wide duals. 

Wide duals and heavy pulling seem to be hard on axle bearings on all the tractors I've been around.

Alot of these tractors down here were set to straddle 40 inch rows with duals.  Lots of Dual spacers on long axles...

 

[Gearclash]

2 hours ago, acem said:

They were heavy pullers for decades and run with wide duals. 

Wide duals and heavy pulling seem to be hard on axle bearings on all the tractors I've been around.

 

Yup.  The leverage of having wheels set way wide greatly increases the force on the bearings, even if the load on the axle stays the same.  

[Matt Kirsch]

"Many" doesn't mean "all." Even in the worst cases in history, the odds of you not having a problem are HEAVILY in your favor. Hypothetically speaking, even if 20% of the tractors experienced a certain problem, 8 out of 10 of them are just fine. You, with one, two or even ten tractors, the odds are still in your favor of never having a problem. The odds of you even knowing someone with a problem pre-Internet is slim.

A 20% failure rate would mean bankruptcy for a manufacturer. Even 5% is a disaster. That's 1 in 20 for some perspective. Manufacturers, at least in those days when they would build 50,000-100,000 of a series of tractor, were shooting for <1%. 

Long story short just because you never had a problem and never knew anyone who had a problem, does not mean there was no problem.

 

[HydroTek]

I started at the Dealer in 1971 and as the 'new guy' got put in setup - so chain elevators , augers, silage wagons, disks , etc.

When the '66 series rolled into the shop , they were very popular , so got moved to getting them ready to ship to customers

This included a good check over and any 'accessories' the customer ordered -- tool box , weights, fluid , radio , extra lights , cab

They all needed the wheels set to certain distances and most got a rack of weights on the front , and 2 sets on the rear with fluid

Have often pondered on how many of those units the Dealer sold -- the 1066 was most popular , with the 966 following -- then the 1466 and 766

There were 2 of guys getting these tractors ready for customers , and was almost my only job for 2 years -- cabs were put on by the more experienced guys

Not sure of the total numbers we sold, but I could get 3-4 ready in a week (6 days - money was good) -- all setup, washed and waxed , ran on the dyno
this is just me, the other guy also setup several -- but also helped in the parts department

I am sure there were Dealers that sole many more than we did -- point to this is that the series was very popular at the time and affordable

[Jeff-C-IL]

Hydro - the 1066 was, for its time, the best designed "modern" tractor out there.   It perfectly fit the time it was released....and was popular for good reasons.    IH nailed it.  The M, the 806, the 1066...... 

Matt - so can you explain why I always get the -20%.....???😑

[Matt Kirsch]

49 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Matt - so can you explain why I always get the -20%.....???😑

Someone has to get the bad ones, but from your story it sounds like you were doing exactly what everyone with the problems was doing. Smoke screw cranked down, and then weighted to get that power to the ground. But it's not the farmer's fault, oh no... IH designed a piece of junk! The dealer isn't going to tell the customer that they're a yutz for flogging their tractor like a rented mule, and neither was IH.

You've got perspective on it now and can look at it objectively. I'm sure when it was happening there were some words said about IH that would make a sailor blush.

[Diesel Doctor]

22 hours ago, HydroTek said:

I started at the Dealer in 1971 and as the 'new guy' got put in setup - so chain elevators , augers, silage wagons, disks , etc.

When the '66 series rolled into the shop , they were very popular , so got moved to getting them ready to ship to customers

This included a good check over and any 'accessories' the customer ordered -- tool box , weights, fluid , radio , extra lights , cab

They all needed the wheels set to certain distances and most got a rack of weights on the front , and 2 sets on the rear with fluid

Have often pondered on how many of those units the Dealer sold -- the 1066 was most popular , with the 966 following -- then the 1466 and 766

There were 2 of guys getting these tractors ready for customers , and was almost my only job for 2 years -- cabs were put on by the more experienced guys

Not sure of the total numbers we sold, but I could get 3-4 ready in a week (6 days - money was good) -- all setup, washed and waxed , ran on the dyno
this is just me, the other guy also setup several -- but also helped in the parts department

I am sure there were Dealers that sole many more than we did -- point to this is that the series was very popular at the time and affordable

I started in 1973 at the dealer, was a vo-tech graduate so my first job was a 1256 rear end overhaul.

You learned in school but this is where the education really started.

When done, I had forgot to hook up the dump valve and the owner chewed my @ss.

I never forgot that again.

Next was a 1066 that had ran Mobil Hy-Tran in it and every rubber o-ring and seal was as hard as a rock.

I got to replace them all.

With each tractor, you learned a little bit.

Before long, you kind of knew what was going on.

I knew the diesel pumps and the other mechanic knew the Hydro's so we kind of stayed out of each others way.

But I stuck my head into a Hydro now and then for a bit of education from Ray.

Over the years, the smell of Hy-Tran kind of gnaws on a  guy. 

My brother said I constantly smelled like a burnt out clutch.

 

 

[DT Fan]

Great stories guy's! Interesting to read about new machines getting set-up back in the day.

[Jeff-C-IL]

20 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Someone has to get the bad ones, but from your story it sounds like you were doing exactly what everyone with the problems was doing. Smoke screw cranked down, and then weighted to get that power to the ground. But it's not the farmer's fault, oh no... IH designed a piece of junk! The dealer isn't going to tell the customer that they're a yutz for flogging their tractor like a rented mule, and neither was IH.

You've got perspective on it now and can look at it objectively. I'm sure when it was happening there were some words said about IH that would make a sailor blush.

I don't think I ever heard a cuss word out of my Dad's mouth.   Made me feel guilty I can tell you!    And I don't think we ever even thought about blaming IH - now the junk the rebuilders put out, that was fair game....!😄  (How many rebuilt alternators does it take to get a good one...."don't bother, you never will".)

The thing was - the only thing we didn't do wrong was turn anything up!   Always kept the settings factory.  Only change we ever made was the larger turbo, and that was only toward the end.   And stuff still broke all the time.   All I can say was after removing all the weights we never had to tear it down again.   

[Bermuda_Ken]

I'll share this story...a customer who farms FLAT sandy loam ground was plowing with their (bought used to them) 1256 and IH plow.  Going thru the field, the tractor spun a wheel and stopped moving.  No grinding or other noises, just no movement.  IH dealer picked it up and took it to shop to tear apart.  They nearly tipped over thier forklift taking the rear tires off.  Turns out the tractor came from S. IL and had the rear tires filled with powdered LEAD.  It was HEAVY!! (they didnt have a scale, but I bet it weighed nearly 20K lbs!!) It sheared off every ring gear bolt on the ring/pinion like it was lazer cut.  The lead was removed from the tires before it was returned to customer at expense of taking wheels BACK to IL to have lead removed.  

[SDman]

Jeff, you weren't the only one that had problems, trust me. When I started working for a CaseIH dealership in 1990, it was definitely an eye opener to see all the transmission/rear end failures that showed up. It was a steady diet of 66/86 series IH tractors and 70/90 series Case tractors that were starting to show the effects of 10+ years of hard tillage that they had done all of their life. In a "normal" farm economy, these tractors would have been probably replaced long before then, but the farm economy of the 1980s necessitated keeping tractors longer than they did previously. 

With the 66/86 series, you saw axle/bull gear bearing failures on the 10s & 14s, as well as bull pinion shaft bearing failures, in addition to the normal ring & pinion failures. With the 15s, you had the ball bearing behind the bull gear that ran the planetary fail, brake o-ring problems, as well as axle bearing issues occasionally as well. This was in addition to the usual IH clutch/TA on the other end of the drive train. 

With the 70/90 series Cases, you had problems with planetary gears, and ring & pinion failures, too. This is in addition to the RPS power shift failures as well as torque limiter problems. 

With the IH 4wds, you had axle bearing failures on 4586s, ring & pinion failures on the rear axle because nobody would check the oil level in the rear axle, clutch jobs, DV-800s that were getting tired from years of hard use. 

The Case 4wds had problems with planetary seals leaking, trunnion bearing issues causing u-joint knuckle failure, power shift problems, 504s that had a short life as someone had to turn up the fuel on an engine already squeezed out of every last drop of HP.

Were some of these tractors overweighted? Probably. Did some have the pump turned up? Sure, but nobody turned up much stuff here at the time as tillage was done in the heat of summer...most tractors were already pushing the envelope with the factory cooling systems being marginal, at best.

Drive trains of both colors had a lot of problems at that time. 

[nate]

3 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

I started in 1973 at the dealer, was a vo-tech graduate so my first job was a 1256 rear end overhaul.

You learned in school but this is where the education really started.

When done, I had forgot to hook up the dump valve and the owner chewed my @ss.

I never forgot that again.

Next was a 1066 that had ran Mobil Hy-Tran in it and every rubber o-ring and seal was as hard as a rock.

I got to replace them all.

With each tractor, you learned a little bit.

Before long, you kind of knew what was going on.

I knew the diesel pumps and the other mechanic knew the Hydro's so we kind of stayed out of each others way.

But I stuck my head into a Hydro now and then for a bit of education from Ray.

Over the years, the smell of Hy-Tran kind of gnaws on a  guy. 

My brother said I constantly smelled like a burnt out clutch.

 

 

Just be glad it isn’t that stinky Shell replacement oil

[acem]

When I worked for Potlatch in eastern Arkansas back in the early 90s, I went to church with a retired International  mechanic.  He started in the 50s and retired around just before I moved there in 90.

He said to cut the dipstick off everything just below the full mark.  He said too many tractors were run too low on hydraulic fluid to get by because it was still on the stick.

Something else about they 80s (especially the early and mid 80s).  We were all broke so preventive maintenance was lacking.  Even needed maintenance was often put off if you could get by.  We were just getting by the skin of our teeth...  All that is hard on equipment.

[Matt Kirsch]

55 minutes ago, nate said:

Just be glad it isn’t that stinky Shell replacement oil

What're you guys going on about? Classic Hy-Tran should be a cologne!