Gooseneck trailers

[kevinj]

9 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

That is FEDERAL law. 

In the Michigan CDL manual there are exemptions for personal use, fire fighters, motorhomes, etc.

In other words non commercial use.

[Gearclash]

1 hour ago, OFFTHEFARM said:

that's the exact reason Ram still rates the 2500 at 10k GVWR even though the axle weight ratings are over 12k on the stupid sticker.

My 3/4 ton says 8800 lb GVWR on the sticker. But look closer and add the axle weight ratings and suddenly the number is 10,934. I ignore the 8800 and watch the axle weights. 

[MTB98]

12 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Unfortunately, many states will still require you to license it as a commercial vehicle and hold a CDL to operate it. Can you operate it without one? Sure, but don't confuse not getting caught with being legal, because they aren't the same thing by any stretch. Your best defense is always to jump through the hoops and be on the up-and-up.

If you’re operating a private vehicle/trailer combo as a “not for hire” rig but you must have a CDL does that then make your rig under jurisdiction of the federal DOT? 
I say no because they enforce commercial vehicle rules and regulations on a federal level. States are independent on how they register and license vehicles and drivers. Pennsylvania, for example, has non CDL Class A and B licenses for private trucks and trailer operation. The FMCSA dictates to the states how CDLs are handled. 

Some states do not require trailers to be licensed or titled yet you can still travel through other states that have different rules  with that unlicensed and untitled trailer. 
 

[Lazy WP]

9 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

If you’re operating a private vehicle/trailer combo as a “not for hire” rig but you must have a CDL does that then make your rig under jurisdiction of the federal DOT? 
I say no because they enforce commercial vehicle rules and regulations on a federal level. States are independent on how they register and license vehicles and drivers. Pennsylvania, for example, has non CDL Class A and B licenses for private trucks and trailer operation. The FMCSA dictates to the states how CDLs are handled. 

Some states do not require trailers to be licensed or titled yet you can still travel through other states that have different rules  with that unlicensed and untitled trailer. 
 

You better have a good lawyer. South Dakota, several years ago said that if you made any money while using your vehicle, it was commercial. Rodeo rigs, race car transports, and the likes. 
I will also guarantee that if you offend a DOT officer he WILL find issues with your vehicle. 

[cobfly]

There's a big difference between commerce and commercial.

[MTB98]

9 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

You better have a good lawyer. South Dakota, several years ago said that if you made any money while using your vehicle, it was commercial. Rodeo rigs, race car transports, and the likes. 
I will also guarantee that if you offend a DOT officer he WILL find issues with your vehicle. 

Someone hauling a couple of their tractors to HCOP this week would not need to have a CDL if their home state does not require it for licensing at that weight (say 30k GCVWR)? 
And they are not DOT regulated by the feds?  
Even if their home state requires a CDL license for them? 
 

Wait- you can make money with race cars? 😂

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

The exemptions do not transfer when you cross a state line. It depends on the state. Some will honor your exemptions and some will not. When I haul grain out of state, I call a compliance company. If I haul my grain from Missouri to Kansas, everything is just like hauling in Missouri. No fuel permit or anything else required. Hauling farm tractors to a show is not covered under farming exemptions. I’m guessing you would also need a DOT # to legally cross if over 26,000. 

[MTB98]

10 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Hauling farm tractors to a show is not covered under farming exemptions. I’m guessing you would also need a DOT # to legally cross if over 26,000. 

Hauling tractors to a show is not involved with commerce. 
USDOT numbers are not required according to the FMCSA website 

“You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that:

• Is used to transport the types and quantities of hazardous materials requiring a safety permit in intrastate commerce (see 49 CFR 385.403).

OR

• Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
• Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
• Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation;

AND is involved in Interstate commerce:

Trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States—

• Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
• Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or
• Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.

You are required by FMCSA to obtain a USDOT Number and comply with the Federal Regulations.”

[mmi]

27 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

You better have a good lawyer. South Dakota, several years ago said that if you made any money while using your vehicle, it was commercial. Rodeo rigs, race car transports, and the likes. 
I will also guarantee that if you offend a DOT officer he WILL find issues with your vehicle. 

From the comment/s the OP's best option is a $9K (SOL)"New" #14,000<,  24'-28' ,Full super assist flip ramp,(90*-180*) and/or then lay flat , single/dual axle.  LP or pierced frame etc options/options yada....as said exceeds the $ of a 4700/FL2...+- $100/mo, govt/operations costs of 3/4T.

As said at the top, ALL of this needs in context and "interpretation" with the Ben Dover "donations" committee you will run thru?  (OP mostly covered with log book) .                           Remember  AI is coming to a shrub near YOU. Together with (AI "papiere bitte")Knows more than you do) Stopped 2x in mamas car,as she was NOT driving.                                                                             East of here (in the bush) it was in the news ,drug runners were logged on 42 "AI devices" ,spurred by a break in , to use a charger. No action taken as their is NO govt profit in it.

For the most part std full $ registration/rules are needed to haul even a cub to a fair,. And 10x IF you receive even a "participation" token . Twenty years ago when (weekly local) classic cars "fairs" died. IF you received ANY token/trophy /prize pkg.Hauler/towed ANYTHING, You were "commercial" and not "classic/antique"

Along with "TRUCK (PU) and Trailer" tires are "different" and must NEVER be used on the "wrong" vehicle!

[Matt Kirsch]

I've been looking at goosenecks myself on Marketplace and the prices are surprising me. A basic 2026 14K gooseneck is under $11,000! It's not just one ad, but several like that. 

Oh you can spend $40,000+ on a tandem dual with a hydraulic ramp/tail, but the basic trailers seem to be quite reasonably priced. There must be a glut of goosenecks on the market.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/972944874780320

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

34 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

Hauling tractors to a show is not involved with commerce. 
USDOT numbers are not required according to the FMCSA website 

“You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that:

• Is used to transport the types and quantities of hazardous materials requiring a safety permit in intrastate commerce (see 49 CFR 385.403).

OR

• Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
• Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
• Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation;

AND is involved in Interstate commerce:

Trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States—

• Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
• Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or
• Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.

You are required by FMCSA to obtain a USDOT Number and comply with the Federal Regulations.”

“Commerce” isn’t what determines what regulation you fall under. In Missouri we have “F” tab farm license for trucks. Our semi trucks have these and are licensed for 80,000. I can hire someone to drive our trucks and it doesn’t require a CDL if we haul our own products. We can even be paid to haul grain if it is a landowners share under a share crop agreement. There is lots of money changing hands and lots of “commerce”, it’s all exempt from commercial vehicle regulations as we are a CFV (covered farm vehicle). Taking the truck several states away with an 80,000 lb load of 4wd tractors is a totally different set of regulations. We crossed state lines, we're out of the 150 mile air radius from home, we’re not traveling from one farm to another, we’re not hauling something we raised (crops or animals), we’re not retrieving machinery that we bought, we’re not transporting farm inputs. Nothing is the same. There’s no way an Illinois DOT officer is going to care about any of this. 

[vtfireman85]

I was recently asked if the fire truck our department is selling required a CDL. Not for department use, but as far as other uses I don’t know, probably depends on how it’s registered. I know ag plates here get you a 150 mile radius, but don’t get caught hauling for hire! 

[MTB98]

50 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Commerce” isn’t what determines what regulation you fall under.

Commerce is the Commercial in CDL. Every state that I’m aware of has an ag exemption of some sort. Yes ag is involved with commerce but they don’t fall under all the DOT rules because of exemptions. 
If one is not involved with commerce then it’s like a recreational vehicle pulling a big boat to the lake for pleasure. 

[searcyfarms]

FYI it doesnt matter what you put on here MTB will argue anything you type - he is the self proclaimed official official on CDL jargons rules and debates 

regarding trailers, its like someone already said oil thread ive had several and it all depends on the use/tow vehicle/terrain/routes and what not 

its like a shop, never big enough and always trying to do more than you can with what you have 

its always hard to stop 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

12 hours ago, MTB98 said:

Commerce is the Commercial in CDL. Every state that I’m aware of has an ag exemption of some sort. Yes ag is involved with commerce but they don’t fall under all the DOT rules because of exemptions. 
If one is not involved with commerce then it’s like a recreational vehicle pulling a big boat to the lake for pleasure. 

Go load up a D11 and tell the DOT officer you’re just going to a show, it’s the same as pulling a boat to the lake, see what they say.

[Wes806]

OK now y'all got me real confused. Just I'll just keep going like I have for the last 30 plus years and hope for the best.😀

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

 

21 minutes ago, Wes806 said:

OK now y'all got me real confused. Just I'll just keep going like I have for the last 30 plus years and hope for the best.😀

That’s what I’m doing. No DOT in sight tonight! 

 

[Alan Dinan]

22 minutes ago, Wes806 said:

OK now y'all got me real confused. Just I'll just keep going like I have for the last 30 plus years and hope for the best.😀

Just play the dumb farmer card!! 😂

[ChrisNY]

Wow did this question get derailed. I am sorry I asked. Continue on with your arguments. 

[bitty]

8 minutes ago, ChrisNY said:

Wow did this question get derailed. I am sorry I asked. Continue on with your arguments. 

Sorry for the derailment. I think with you having a CDL already and wanting to haul something like a 1456 and possibly another small tractor or UTV / golf cart it's going to need to be a sizable trailer. You might want to look at the tractor with a tape measure and figure out approximately where you want to be compared to the center of your trailer axles. Then mark off what you need in front of that or behind that for the golf cart or small tractor. You're bigger tractor is going to dictate where your weight needs to be put to be balanced well. I'm sure you will be dual tandem to get that load safely. I did know someone who hauled a 1066 high crop on our 14000 trailer and it was probably not much over the weight rating. I wouldn't have wanted to be going fast with that load .  One thing you will want is electric over hydraulic brakes unless you step up to air brakes 

[Sledgehammer]

Two full size tractors would require a large trailer. Figure roughly what weight you will be hauling and go from there for # of axles and such. Ramps are nice on a dovetail rear but a hydraulic dovetail is really nice. It is easy to overload the GVW of a 3/4 ton truck. Hauling cross country would want to be reasonably close to legal. Hauling across county I would not worry. The resident keyboard know it all can argue CDL statistics all he wants. It's up to you to decide what you want/need for a trailer. 

[Wes806]

45 minutes ago, Alan Dinan said:

Just play the dumb farmer card!! 😂

That probably wouldn't take much to do. LMAO

[acem]

Large trucks and trailers are not required for hauling heavy loads.

My 4366 was hauled by a man with a dual tandem trailer and a first gen Dodge Cummins 1 ton.  He was probably grossing 30,000 lbs because he had a heavy trailer.

I have seen on ton pickups with long dual triple axle trailer haul three (3) 1066 sized tractors.  Probably grossing 40,000 lbs.

Do I recommend this, NO!

But it is done. 

[pms1961]

I bought a Big Flex new in 2020.They call it a 20 plus 5.Just shy of 26 feet with the so called mega ramps folded up.Mega ramps are spring loaded so easy to fold and unfold.This one is 24,000 gvwr and is a tandem duallyHad a triple axle bumper pull that was around 18,000 gvwr.Goose neck much nicer to pull.

[new guy]

25 +5 with the max ramps. Tandem dually. With duals you can always limp home with 1 flat tire. I pull mine with a 1 ton with the 6.7 Cummins. Handles 14 big round bales easily. Engine brake really helps slowing the load down.