Automatic trucks

[Missouri Mule]

34 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

My 22 year old Chevy Silverado 3500's Allison 1000 automatic has automatic grade braking in tow/haul mode. Downshifts and locks the torque converter to maintain speed, automatically. I hardly ever have to touch the brakes on downhill grades with the empty truck if I activate tow/haul mode.

You mean to tell me that the automatics in the Class 5-6-7-8 trucks don't have that? I find that hard to believe. Sounds more like a preconceived notion based on someone's experience with a Powerglide back in the 1950's.

One thing on the medium-duty trucks with the 466's and automatics is, you have to drive them like they have Screamin' Jimmys. Slam your shifting hand in the door so you're pi$$ed AND you're not tempted to use it. Then use the skinny pedal like an on-off switch. Flat to the floor or completely off it. That's how they tell you to drive the school buses when they're training you for your CDL.

Funny. I drove a 90's 4900 with T444E and auto in a large bucket truck for alot of miles. Thats how you ran it. When we got the " new" truck with 3126 and allison i was in heaven. 

I get the argument, owned lots of trucks all manuals. You guys dont get it, theres a ton of guys that are willing and capable of driving a single axle truck with 400bu on. However nobody knows how to use a 2 speed right. Ill argue that if you want to, and with our steep hills and curves i dont get the warm and fuzzy about turning them loose. Somethings getting tore up. My 4900 has a 13spd roadranger and im the only one that i trust in it of the ones i have around. Obviously here there are some guys more qualified than me. 

Let me ask this. S1700-4900 single axles. What transmission (auto) options were available and what worked/didnt work?

[farmallcubkid]

Love manuals but the choice depends on what I am doing. If I had to drive in town all day with constant upshifting and downshifting probably a good automatic. If I was pulling a load or just driving definitely a manual. Manuals have less fail points, are tougher, and can take the heat way better than automatics. And if you lose brakes you might not die in a crash while going through the river hills.

[vtfireman85]

I can’t speak to an S series or a 466, but based on a t444e and 4 spd auto and a 3208 and 4spd auto i feel like you spend a lot of time out of the power band trying to force a shift, or chewing up a fair amount of horsepower in the torque converter slipping to compensate. Both seem adequate in power, though not super impressive, but could benefit from more gears. I think a 10 spd or 5+2 would be an improvement in any of that size chassis I have used. 

[F-301066460puller]

Been a long time since I split shifted  a 2spd rear... it's fun though

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I still have some old two speed rear ends that we haul seed beans and seed corn in. I tell everybody the only gear they are to split is 4th. These are 4+2 setups. Start in low, 1, 2, 3, 4, then 4 high. I can’t speak for everywhere, but driving ours like they are an 8 speed is a waste of energy. Our old Ford single axle 4+2 will hold 525 bushel and I never split gears other than 4th. 525 bushel is too much, but it has had that much on it lots of times. If I was only hauling a few loads, I’d buy an old gas truck in a heartbeat if it ran good and was in decent shape. A gas ten wheeler would be even better. They wouldn’t be as nice as a diesel with air brakes, but for the price most of them bring, I could live with that. 

[Lazy WP]

2 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

You guys dont get it, theres a ton of guys that are willing and capable of driving a single axle truck with 400bu on

I get it plumb fine. You want to stick someone who is used to driving a F-1fiddy, at best into a truck weighing 40,000 pounds plus, and expect them to be safe on the roads, instead of taking the time to train them how to drive a manual transmission and show them how to handle the weight. 
I can fly a flippin airplane too. Not a clue how to take off or land it! But I can maintain altitude well enough, in perfect conditions, to say that I can fly!!

I deal with inexperienced people all the time, whether they are on a bike, in a car, or a truck. All you have to do is sit outside a large grain elevator and watch!

[Ihfan4life]

5 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Had to drag a loaded semi through 2” of mud once for about 500’.  It was an auto.
My tractor was chewing and sinking and working much harder than I thought it should be. My buddy was there helping, he pointed out that the truck “driver” wasn’t even spinning his wheels. Truck was an auto and obviously he could feel it didn’t have the feel for what he should have been doing.  I was pissed. 

The truck -might have had traction control on-

they WILL NOT spin and will actually pull power away if it senses a wheel breaking loose. Don’t be so hard on the driver, it could have been the truck 

[forwhldrv]

I have driven automatic’s in the front discharge mixers for 25+ years now. There are some better ones than others the old 740’s were power robbing beast but nice on a job site maneuvering around but you had to learn to drive em to get them to shift when you want and not shift when you don’t. The trucks we have are all running around 330-350 HP hauling about 80 k loaded and off road. The last couple trucks I have had had Cat C12’s in them they would pull good on the hills compared to the Cummins but you have to learn how to drive the motor to use it the computer controlled Allison’s are the way to go I still drop mine down a gear or two to slow it down some bit the Jake is plenty strong enough and they pull pretty good. The problem with the automatic’s is when they go they are expensive to rebuild but in out applications they work great. Yes if I had my choice I’d go buy a long nose Pete with an 18 speed  in it because I don’t mind shifting but in a mixer I wouldn’t want to. 

[vtfireman85]

Pig

[Jacka]

5 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

My 22 year old Chevy Silverado 3500's Allison 1000 automatic has automatic grade braking in tow/haul mode. Downshifts and locks the torque converter to maintain speed, automatically. I hardly ever have to touch the brakes on downhill grades with the empty truck if I activate tow/haul mode.

You mean to tell me that the automatics in the Class 5-6-7-8 trucks don't have that? I find that hard to believe. Sounds more like a preconceived notion based on someone's experience with a Powerglide back in the 1950's.

One thing on the medium-duty trucks with the 466's and automatics is, you have to drive them like they have Screamin' Jimmys. Slam your shifting hand in the door so you're pi$$ed AND you're not tempted to use it. Then use the skinny pedal like an on-off switch. Flat to the floor or completely off it. That's how they tell you to drive the school buses when they're training you for your CDL.

I don't know if you were referring to my post but my main thing with automatics or at least the 6spd Allison's they put in the Macks and Internationals is the reverse. Way to fast going backwards down a grade in snow or ice.If  you have to slow it down for safety or precision and use the brakes you lock up the front wheels and lose steering.Simple turning around on a back road or backing down a blocked mountain interstate because of idiot drivers that should have stayed home can get you in a ditch.Autos need a low reverse to shift into.That's why I prefer a manual, I have the choice of deep reduction if I want to use it. But what do I know,I just plow in blinding snow storms while idiots try to pass me because I am slowing them down.

[Shell1066]

5 hours ago, Jacka said:

I plow interstates with tri axel and tandems.I rather have manual when backing up or down a grade or anytime you don’t want to use the brakes.I found the 6sp Allison's are too fast in that for good control if you have to go slow.You end up using the brakes and loosing steering. They should have a 2sd reverse or something. Manual is fine and the only drawback is plowing ramps and exits when there is a lot of back and forth.Get it up to speed,set it on cruise and go.

 

I plowed with a ford L8000 Single axle 6speed till it rusted out. In the city doing a LOT of side streets and culdesac 's. Lots of shifting back and forth. Still wouldn't trade it for a auto. But them I am set in my ways about what I'l drive!! LOL. The manuals are better in snow. Also ran tri axle dump thru the city all day back and forth to the quarry. Even then, I;ll take a manual.

[Alan Dinan]

A friend is running an IH tandem, DT530 with an Allison. Runs about 600 bushels of corn. Biggest issue with it is getting rolling loaded in soft field. Handles hills fine.

[ChrisNY]

I plowed for quite a few years and the problem with automatics was on the double wing tandems we used if you met a car you could not jam the clutch in and throttle up to get the drivers side wing up in time. 
  We are transitioning to automatic silage trucks because it is getting increasingly difficult to find drivers. I was always against them but after spending a few days in one we borrowed I was sold. Less fatigued at end of a 14 hour day, knees feel better etc.  

[Chester5732]

Try hauling 50k of milk in a food grade tanker with no baffles with one of them eaton auto shift turds on ice.  Bring extra underwear.  When the milk is sloshing and it decides to downshift without warning you are going for a ride. 

[stronger800]

2 hours ago, Ihfan4life said:

The truck -might have had traction control on-

they WILL NOT spin and will actually pull power away if it senses a wheel breaking loose. Don’t be so hard on the driver, it could have been the truck 

That makes sense. I can understand that as well, but in this case  once my buddy  jumped on the step and told him to get on the pedal, it started spinning both axles and got a lot easier to tow.  

[acem]

Automatic transmissions are fine. They seem to be the way of the future.

However the cost of a transmission rebuild will probably total the truck. Anyone you can't trust in a manual will likely be hard on the auto in your hills.

I recommend getting an 1800 or bigger 10 wheeler with 20'+ bed and air brakes. You can still get in tighter spots than a semi and it will hold alot more.

A 14 wheeler with tall 24' bed built on a HD truck (9370 or similar). Can legally haul almost as much as a hopper bottom round here.

[Missouri Mule]

4 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

I get it plumb fine. You want to stick someone who is used to driving a F-1fiddy, at best into a truck weighing 40,000 pounds plus, and expect them to be safe on the roads, instead of taking the time to train them how to drive a manual transmission and show them how to handle the weight. 
I can fly a flippin airplane too. Not a clue how to take off or land it! But I can maintain altitude well enough, in perfect conditions, to say that I can fly!!

I deal with inexperienced people all the time, whether they are on a bike, in a car, or a truck. All you have to do is sit outside a large grain elevator and watch!

Not exactly. Easier said than done. Spend 3 weeks a year doing harvest its hard to find anyone here. Maybe in real crop ground. What your not getting is i never asked which youd rather operate, that answer is clearly a winner. I asked about automatics. Maybe should have worded that differently wasnt trying to offend you. Thanks

[Missouri Mule]

1 hour ago, Alan Dinan said:

A friend is running an IH tandem, DT530 with an Allison. Runs about 600 bushels of corn. Biggest issue with it is getting rolling loaded in soft field. Handles hills fine.

See i hadnt thought of that for whatever reason. The trucks i have driven, especially the 7.3, would be bad. Thats where my tandem 13sp with deep reduction is nice. I compare it to an army truck, it will move, might be slow in soft fields and if i take my time crawls out. Caviot being i would imagine one good crow hop away from finding a weak link

[Missouri Mule]

25 minutes ago, acem said:

Automatic transmissions are fine. They seem to be the way of the future.

However the cost of a transmission rebuild will probably total the truck. Anyone you can't trust in a manual will likely be hard on the auto in your hills.

I recommend getting an 1800 or bigger 10 wheeler with 20'+ bed and air brakes. You can still get in tighter spots than a semi and it will hold alot more.

A 14 wheeler with tall 24' bed built on a HD truck (9370 or similar). Can legally haul almost as much as a hopper bottom round here.

Theres some dang nice c70, and 1800's around. C70 with a 427, air brakes and 13 speed is good cheap combo IMO

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

You could probably buy an old tandem semi and hopper bottom for about the same as a nice diesel straight truck. Then you wouldn’t need any help. 

[acem]

I bought a nice IH 10 wheeler from a friend for a grand but it needs a little work.  Was running good but has sat for several years. Gas and hydrulic brakes but is a nice clean low mileage truck with a good dump bed.

Ten wheedlers are pretty dead at auctions round here.

The semi option is nice but you can't get them into many places due to roads, etc.  I expect you are farming small fields on small roads.

[vtfireman85]

3 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

Theres some dang nice c70, and 1800's around. C70 with a 427, air brakes and 13 speed is good cheap combo IMO

Some hard to get parts in the C series. Had a C65 with 427, it was decent power was OK, but It was a struggle to keep it together, manifolds were a nightmare it was always cooking starters, literally, and I don’t know a ton about hauling grains, but they run HOT and it seems like a fire risk personally, ours periodically backfired and tended to waffle a little on shutdown. The 3208 in the same chassis was a massive improvement. Brakes are more expensive than they should be because they deviate from the standard. If I could put the 5+2 we had behind the 427 behind the 3208 it would be the shiz. 

[jass1660]

There is a big difference between an automatic and an auto shift which is still a manual and you can shift those manually with the switch still. 

[mader656]

2 hours ago, Jacka said:

I don't know if you were referring to my post but my main thing with automatics or at least the 6spd Allison's they put in the Macks and Internationals is the reverse. Way to fast going backwards down a grade in snow or ice.If  you have to slow it down for safety or precision and use the brakes you lock up the front wheels and lose steering.Simple turning around on a back road or backing down a blocked mountain interstate because of idiot drivers that should have stayed home can get you in a ditch.Autos need a low reverse to shift into.That's why I prefer a manual, I have the choice of deep reduction if I want to use it. But what do I know,I just plow in blinding snow storms while idiots try to pass me because I am slowing them down.

 

Where do you plow. Here columbus montana isn't crazy steep. But we a few hills some if your pushing heavy and miss a shift your down in low to the top of the hill.

And I guess what I called auto was infact auto shift. The low reverse was painfully slow when plowing ramps or rest area. 

We operate with the if traffic is moving don't back down. 

[db1486]

1 hour ago, vtfireman85 said:

Some hard to get parts in the C series. Had a C65 with 427, it was decent power was OK, but It was a struggle to keep it together, manifolds were a nightmare it was always cooking starters, literally, and I don’t know a ton about hauling grains, but they run HOT and it seems like a fire risk personally, ours periodically backfired and tended to waffle a little on shutdown. The 3208 in the same chassis was a massive improvement. Brakes are more expensive than they should be because they deviate from the standard. If I could put the 5+2 we had behind the 427 behind the 3208 it would be the shiz. 

We were cooking starters on our 427's too. I made heat shields that wrapped around the starters and that helped alot. Also put one on with a separate solenoid that is mounted to the frame. That made a huge difference. Haven't had troubles for more than a few years with that setup