Are ranchers done?

[ray54]

There were a number of registered Angus breeders here already in the 1960's. Those were the only Angus around. Everything else was Herford or Hereford crossed with dairy cows. Those early Angus where the smallest cattle around. Because of that commercial cattlemen started using Angus bulls on heifers to have less calving trouble. Then the highbred vigor started becoming the thing.

Then the European invasion happened. Someone was promoting every dual purpose oxen color as rare but enchanted breed. That was going to set the beef world on fire. During all the confusion very mysteriously the Angus cattle grew 20 to 40% to be as big if not bigger than Herefords. There has been more than one or two discussions around a branding fire here in the west wondering just how those bigger Angus cattle happened in 10 to 20 years.

My dad who was a true lover of Hereford cattle started using more Angus bulls. Then when it became my choice good Hereford bulls were few and far between. I have now turned that over to my son, who spent a lot of his first 20 years with grandpa. Does his dammed est to keep one Hereford bull around so the Hereford will never go away completely.

 

But I can say I don't miss the cancer eye, vaginal and rectal prolapse's, and bad bags that more pure Hereford brought also.

 

What range cattlemen need is EPD scores for efficiency of cows on range grass diet. And the whole industry needs a push for feed efficiency in the feedlot. Without loosing taste and tenderness we already have.

 

At a social event last Saturday had neighbor tell me of being served Wagyu  beef a few days before. As we ate some very nice top sirloin. Cut like butter with a plastic knifes we were using. No need to dig my real knife out of my pocket. Cut with no gristle or excess fat. I asked if it was $40 a serving better, I never got an answer.

[Ihfan4life]

8 hours ago, ray54 said:

There were a number of registered Angus breeders here already in the 1960's. Those were the only Angus around. Everything else was Herford or Hereford crossed with dairy cows. Those early Angus where the smallest cattle around. Because of that commercial cattlemen started using Angus bulls on heifers to have less calving trouble. Then the highbred vigor started becoming the thing.

Then the European invasion happened. Someone was promoting every dual purpose oxen color as rare but enchanted breed. That was going to set the beef world on fire. During all the confusion very mysteriously the Angus cattle grew 20 to 40% to be as big if not bigger than Herefords. There has been more than one or two discussions around a branding fire here in the west wondering just how those bigger Angus cattle happened in 10 to 20 years.

My dad who was a true lover of Hereford cattle started using more Angus bulls. Then when it became my choice good Hereford bulls were few and far between. I have now turned that over to my son, who spent a lot of his first 20 years with grandpa. Does his dammed est to keep one Hereford bull around so the Hereford will never go away completely.

 

But I can say I don't miss the cancer eye, vaginal and rectal prolapse's, and bad bags that more pure Hereford brought also.

 

What range cattlemen need is EPD scores for efficiency of cows on range grass diet. And the whole industry needs a push for feed efficiency in the feedlot. Without loosing taste and tenderness we already have.

 

At a social event last Saturday had neighbor tell me of being served Wagyu  beef a few days before. As we ate some very nice top sirloin. Cut like butter with a plastic knifes we were using. No need to dig my real knife out of my pocket. Cut with no gristle or excess fat. I asked if it was $40 a serving better, I never got an answer.

Without putting words into 766man’s mouth, I think the large frame/small frame discussion took a sideways turn while what he actually meant was that dairy’s are pushing for feed efficiency over size, thinking the smaller cow is more efficient with converting feed sources to dollars… 

There’s several farms here doing Wagyu beef exclusively. As tender as that is, I would think it’s a special occasion cut of beef and not a daily serving of beef, just because of the cost of it. 
 

If I was to venture back into dairy, I’d look very seriously at crossbreeding because I think the industry has overbred with certain cow families where inbreeding can be a concern. 

Breeding Angus or Jersey on Holstein heifers has always been about throwing a smaller calf. The idea of AI’ing heifers with Holstein came about when the size of the calf came to be a trait you could use in your breeding selection, IMO 

 

[acem]

Y'all need to play nice.

 

[acem]

Just a point of reference.

Ai (artificial insemination not artificial intelligence) has been used on animals for around a thousand years and 250 years on people.

However it has grown rapidly in the past 50 years.

Genetic manipulation predates recorded history. Look at the ancestors of what is now corn.

 

[Chester5732]

I recently had a conversation with the fella I buy my calves from.  Starting November he has a contract for several thousand Holstein waygu cross calves.   Will see how that plays out.  They are all headed out of state. 

[acem]

I just read an article saying heifer retention is up.

[7and8and1456]

Here are some pictures and a short clip from a 1952 National Geographic Magazine. Angus and Hereford cattle were little fellows back then. The photo of teen boy holding halter to Hereford steer states that the champion steer at the show weighed 1,025 lbs. 

[acem]

13 minutes ago, 7and8and1456 said:

Here are some pictures and a short clip from a 1952 National Geographic Magazine. Angus and Hereford cattle were little fellows back then. The photo of teen boy holding halter to Hereford steer states that the champion steer at the show weighed 1,025 lbs. 

Some but not all chased short cattle back then. I don't like large frame momma cows but don't want shorties either...

Not everyone followed that trend.

 

[Lazy WP]

The Angus breed is again headed towards smaller framed cattle, in my opinion. 

[pt756]

The price of the black holstein angus calves has dropped off the last week or two, at least a few hundred dollars, wonder if calves will ever hit 2k again?

[Big Bud guy]

1 hour ago, 7and8and1456 said:

Here are some pictures and a short clip from a 1952 National Geographic Magazine. Angus and Hereford cattle were little fellows back then. The photo of teen boy holding halter to Hereford steer states that the champion steer at the show weighed 1,025 lbs. 

Around here there was a time when guys used to pile up straw around the legs when taking photos to make the bull look even shorter.  I have one neighbor who raises black angus bulls to sell.  Not a very big operation but he is breeding his heard to be smaller framed claiming he gets more pounds per acre.  He could be right for all I know 

[acem]

9 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Around here there was a time when guys used to pile up straw around the legs when taking photos to make the bull look even shorter.  I have one neighbor who raises black angus bulls to sell.  Not a very big operation but he is breeding his heard to be smaller framed claiming he gets more pounds per acre.  He could be right for all I know 

Smaller frames cattle tend to be more efficient. However their steaks are smaller too. It's a balance.

[dale560]

1 hour ago, acem said:

Smaller frames cattle tend to be more efficient. However their steaks are smaller too. It's a balance.

That is one reason angus and Hereford were a better thing for packers. Generally a bit smaller but the high end cuts were almost perfect size fo the upscale market. Some of the worlds premiere angus breeders are in the Bismarck or Mandan nd area. Their genetics are in almost all angus herds through a bull they bought in Australia I believe. Their are other big breeders in the middle states but the Schaff angus bull from about 30 years ago made the angus into the modern cattle they are.

[Red666]

I was talking with one of the larger dairy farmers in our neighborhood with over 10000 milk cows and they are already using embryos.Most dairy farmers are using 30 to 40% beef on their cows. We have been using over 30 % beef on our Holstein’s for more than 10 years and don’t have any calving issues. The beef cross calves are harder than the Holstein calves are. We have gotten over 2000 dollars for the cross calves. 

[yellowrosefarm]

18 hours ago, 7and8and1456 said:

Here are some pictures and a short clip from a 1952 National Geographic Magazine. Angus and Hereford cattle were little fellows back then. The photo of teen boy holding halter to Hereford steer states that the champion steer at the show weighed 1,025 lbs. 

That's wild. They don't look even remotely like the cattle we have now.

[pt756]

One thing I have noticed is the cross calves come out of the holstein cow  looking for breakfast, the regular holstein calf  not that excited to be fed.

[cjf711]

On 7/26/2026 at 8:55 AM, Chester5732 said:

I recently had a conversation with the fella I buy my calves from.  Starting November he has a contract for several thousand Holstein waygu cross calves.   Will see how that plays out.  They are all headed out of state. 

Wagyu exports (cattle and genetic material) from Japan have been banned since 97.   There is an awful lot of places selling Wagyu beef in the US though many of which came about very recently it seems which seems strange.  I think there is even the American Wagyu Association.  Whatever that means "exactly" Im not sure.    

  

[dale560]

41 minutes ago, cjf711 said:

Wagyu exports (cattle and genetic material) from Japan have been banned since 97.   There is an awful lot of places selling Wagyu beef in the US though many of which came about very recently it seems which seems strange.  I think there is even the American Wagyu Association.  Whatever that means "exactly" Im not sure.    

  

There are wagyu cross cattle here in the US. A friend of my dad’s used to raise them . Mostly angus ,simmental cross bred to wagyu bull I believe. It was almost a scam people that ran the meat  marketing would come and inspect his herd. They would be looking for docile and tameness more than anything. If they told the cow owner to call the cows in they. Wanted them to come at his command. And move left or right at little nudging. It was all about the handling more than the proper genetics. In Japan they massage the cattle feed them beer and such. I don’t know what the premium in marketing was for the wagyu cross but that guy raised them with all IH equipment as the uncle was a dealer until the 60s.

[Gearclash]

2 hours ago, pt756 said:

One thing I have noticed is the cross calves come out of the holstein cow  looking for breakfast, the regular holstein calf  not that excited to be fed.

No surprise.  I grew up dairy and worked with it until I was almost 40.  In recent years I have dealt with beef from brood cow/calf to finish.  World of difference between dairy and beef animals. Beef animals know how to take care of themselves and are far more tolerant of weather.   

[lotsaIHCs]

This is the cattle on the ranch where one of my sons works.

[dale560]

1 hour ago, lotsaIHCs said:

This is the cattle on the ranch where one of my sons works.

They always have nice cattle down there. The sales barns in North Dakota are divided into south and north. The south barns are generally along I94 and north barns are along US hiway 2 . The north barns used to be known for farmer cattle. Meaning ones and twos of every breed and color. The south barns were ranch cattle generally larger herds of the same breed. Guess which always had the higher prices.

[acem]

Black haired cattle are very popular down here but they don't preform well during our summers. 

Decades ago I was on a ranch in southern Mexico. The cattle were Charolais white Brahmin cross cattle. Good looking cattle that took the heat in stride. 

[lotsaIHCs]

5 hours ago, dale560 said:

They always have nice cattle down there. The sales barns in North Dakota are divided into south and north. The south barns are generally along I94 and north barns are along US hiway 2 . The north barns used to be known for farmer cattle. Meaning ones and twos of every breed and color. The south barns were ranch cattle generally larger herds of the same breed. Guess which always had the higher prices.

We went to their ranch for a cookout at the owners' house a while ago. The porter houses and T-bones were probably the best I've ever had.

[Jacka]

10 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

This is the cattle on the ranch where one of my sons works.

Look at the grass..Beautiful.

[TroyDairy]

On 7/26/2026 at 1:08 PM, pt756 said:

The price of the black holstein angus calves has dropped off the last week or two, at least a few hundred dollars, wonder if calves will ever hit 2k again?

We hit 1700s most of summer.  1300 today.  I assume will drop more with border opening etc.  But i also do not see 300 ever again.