Are ranchers done?

[hobbyfarm]

12 hours ago, acem said:

Black haired cattle are very popular down here but they don't preform well during our summers. 

Decades ago I was on a ranch in southern Mexico. The cattle were Charolais white Brahmin cross cattle. Good looking cattle that took the heat in stride. 

The black cattle are the first in the shade.

[pt756]

Well it was fun while it lasted, was said we usually got over a million cattle from Mexico a year, do they even have the extra to give?

[just Dave]

On 7/25/2026 at 3:24 PM, dale560 said:

This is the last group of home raised calves we sold in 2021 until this year again. 10 years before that we made the cowherd one color and mostly angus cross with some simmental influence. In the 10 years we did that we topped the market about 50% of the time. The other times the calves were just not the fancy cattle they needed to be. And it didn’t matter what color mostly as long as you had straight uniform groups. But some days black cattle on a natural feed no drug base did well. Sometimes the steers were 15 to 20 cents above market price 

That’s the fanciest sale barn I’ve ever seen, but then it’s been 45 years since I was in one.

[dale560]

1 hour ago, just Dave said:

That’s the fanciest sale barn I’ve ever seen, but then it’s been 45 years since I was in one.

Napoleon livestock in napoleon North Dakota . They rebuilt it over the summer about 15 years ago yes it is nice. A kids room to watch tv and such. Always happy when you sell in a barn like that.

[Lazy WP]

On 7/26/2026 at 4:49 PM, dale560 said:

That is one reason angus and Hereford were a better thing for packers. Generally a bit smaller but the high end cuts were almost perfect size fo the upscale market. Some of the worlds premiere angus breeders are in the Bismarck or Mandan nd area. Their genetics are in almost all angus herds through a bull they bought in Australia I believe. Their are other big breeders in the middle states but the Schaff angus bull from about 30 years ago made the angus into the modern cattle they are.

I believe you drank the koolaid!

 I can prove to you from several sources that not all smaller framed, black cattle are more efficient, nor do they grade better! What I can’t argue with is that they are cookie cutter animals that nearly everyone of them is the same and fit into boxes that the majority want. 

[Chester5732]

11 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

I believe you drank the koolaid!

 I can prove to you from several sources that not all smaller framed, black cattle are more efficient, nor do they grade better! What I can’t argue with is that they are cookie cutter animals that nearly everyone of them is the same and fit into boxes that the majority want. 

Yup. Look at what had been done with the pork industry. There are some cookie cutters. 

[Lazy WP]

42 minutes ago, Chester5732 said:

Yup. Look at what had been done with the pork industry. There are some cookie cutters. 

That is why they will be pushing the beef embryo in the dairy cattle. They can control the genetics, the feed and calculate exactly how the animal will yield. It’s not for the betterment of the people, beef nor dairy industry. It’s for the betterment of the pencil pushers!!

[dale560]

1 hour ago, Lazy WP said:

I believe you drank the koolaid!

 I can prove to you from several sources that not all smaller framed, black cattle are more efficient, nor do they grade better! What I can’t argue with is that they are cookie cutter animals that nearly everyone of them is the same and fit into boxes that the majority want. 

The kool aid tasted pretty good. All I can say when we switched to majority black angus or angus with some simmental  cross. We went from being picked apart farmer cattle with rat tail short hair calves from the traits of the cows and bulls. To selling 45 to 50 calves in a bunch and the sales barn using the price our calves brought to attract the neighbors cattle. Not every year did we top the market but it was over 50% of the time. Red cattle sell good in bunches also. But when cattle feeders want drug free angus steers for top dollar that’s what you strive to give them. Again when we started 35 years ago ourselves in cattle we had ones and twos of every breed, A rainbow herd they call it. Since then you take pride in the herd and try to make it the best you can.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

If raising Angus or what qualifies as Angus pays the best, what reason is there to do anything else? If you are a small producer, it makes even more sense to do what pays best. You need to get the most that you can from a small herd. There’s no reason to leave money on the table. If someone can market something else and make the same or more, that’s great. But someone running cows through the sale ring selling anything else doesn’t make sense financially to me. We sell direct to Tyson a pot load at a time and we raise what they want. There’s no reason not to.

[Lazy WP]

What you are all saying is correct. The black hides same size, same bloodline sell the best, though a salebarn. I have never seen a rancher, who retains ownership of his calves until slaughter, run black cattle.  For whatever reasons they are either white, red, or the rat tails. 
I will have something to sell when the packers decide that they are done paying a premium because that’s all there is. Guess that’s what I am trying to make a point of. Cattlemen better be watching what happened to the pork and poultry industry because it’s coming to the beef industry WAY sooner than we expect. 
Myself, I can market my registered cattle at a premium, and have more people asking for freezer beef than I can provide. 
 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

My brother direct markets as much of our beef as he can. He has never sold more than 20 in a year and usually less than that. The major problem that we have is people think it’s going to be a lot cheaper to buy direct. They never want to process it themselves and when they find out what it costs, they aren’t interested. Many people can’t come up with enough money for that much beef all at once, even a 1/4 or 1/2. We could not even begin to direct market all of ours. Plus dealing with the public is just awful in general. I don’t know of anyone around here that is direct selling more than single digit animals in a year. It’s uphill business. I have never heard of anyone who can sell enough to make a living doing it. 

[dale560]

51 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

My brother direct markets as much of our beef as he can. He has never sold more than 20 in a year and usually less than that. The major problem that we have is people think it’s going to be a lot cheaper to buy direct. They never want to process it themselves and when they find out what it costs, they aren’t interested. Many people can’t come up with enough money for that much beef all at once, even a 1/4 or 1/2. We could not even begin to direct market all of ours. Plus dealing with the public is just awful in general. I don’t know of anyone around here that is direct selling more than single digit animals in a year. It’s uphill business. I have never heard of anyone who can sell enough to make a living doing it. 

We used to sell single pigs in the fall around deer hunting season. If pigs were bringing 45 cents a pound or 40 it was between 100 and 125 for a live pig at the shipping point. A couple sales barns would buy pigs one day a week to send a semi load to Sioux Falls. Most people were ok paying 125 and picking out their pig. But you had the ones that thought you should sell them a pig for 50 dollars. 

[Chester5732]

1 hour ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

My brother direct markets as much of our beef as he can. He has never sold more than 20 in a year and usually less than that. The major problem that we have is people think it’s going to be a lot cheaper to buy direct. They never want to process it themselves and when they find out what it costs, they aren’t interested. Many people can’t come up with enough money for that much beef all at once, even a 1/4 or 1/2. We could not even begin to direct market all of ours. Plus dealing with the public is just awful in general. I don’t know of anyone around here that is direct selling more than single digit animals in a year. It’s uphill business. I have never heard of anyone who can sell enough to make a living doing it. 

Dealing with the people is why I quit.  Especially when they thought I was a bank and they could make payments.  

[dale560]

Just reading up on the Japanese wagyu cattle. There are four classes of the breed in Japan. Japanese black, Japanese brown and wagyu angus cross, then wagyu shorthorn. Even the Japanese recognized the value of angus and shorthorn cattle years ago and crossed them

[acem]

14 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

If raising Angus or what qualifies as Angus pays the best, what reason is there to do anything else? If you are a small producer, it makes even more sense to do what pays best. You need to get the most that you can from a small herd. There’s no reason to leave money on the table. If someone can market something else and make the same or more, that’s great. But someone running cows through the sale ring selling anything else doesn’t make sense financially to me. We sell direct to Tyson a pot load at a time and we raise what they want. There’s no reason not to.

Price is important but not everything. Efficiency on your operation is very important.

Many ranches south of here run eared cattle for efficiency. 

A good F1 is the most efficient momma cow  in southern environments. Then throw a good Angus bull in for good selling calves. 1/4 brahman calves receive no discount down here.

If you're not familiar, F1 cows are Hereford Brahman first generation hybrid. The first generation cross makes a hardy and long life momma cow. Only down side is attitude. Nothing will get their calf but they require special 'rough stock' facilities. Ive had some and they are by far the best cows I've ever owned. But their attitude when in a pen is unacceptable to my wife.  

 

 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

1 hour ago, acem said:

Price is important but not everything. Efficiency on your operation is very important.

Many ranches south of here run eared cattle for efficiency. 

A good F1 is the most efficient momma cow  in southern environments. Then throw a good Angus bull in for good selling calves. 1/4 brahman calves receive no discount down here.

If you're not familiar, F1 cows are Hereford Brahman first generation hybrid. The first generation cross makes a hardy and long life momma cow. Only down side is attitude. Nothing will get their calf but they require special 'rough stock' facilities. Ive had some and they are by far the best cows I've ever owned. But their attitude when in a pen is unacceptable to my wife.  

 

 

There are many of those cows that make their way up here. I won’t work around them anymore. My older neighbor used to buy them because they were cheap. It was absolutely not safe to be out in the open on foot with them if they had a calf. I think I have PTSD from working his cattle. Anything with droopy ears is discounted heavily here at auction. 

[dale560]

2 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

There are many of those cows that make their way up here. I won’t work around them anymore. My older neighbor used to buy them because they were cheap. It was absolutely not safe to be out in the open on foot with them if they had a calf. I think I have PTSD from working his cattle. Anything with droopy ears is discounted heavily here at auction. 

Droopy ears , rat tail, white Charolais with pink nose[need a black nose], loud spotted cattle and Salers cattle [ the thin horsey type] are heavily discounted up here. Solid colors or white face are preferred. And all our feeder cattle are going into central to northern edge of southern states to be finished. Not many cattle getting finished out in our area just because of logistics. There used to be a lot of grain farmers that backgrounded calves in the winter here but they all went to straight grain farmers now. They would take a 525lb calves in November and try to get them to 850 or around there in June. Those cattle used to go to small 1000 to 3000head finishing lots in southern Minnesota and Iowa. My buddy fed a 1000 calves every fall and one year sold his steers. Halve of them came back home to be fed a couple more weeks. The buyer was just finishing out a couple pens and decided to feed more cattle out that year. They had talked to him ahead of time if they could do that in return the other calves that they didn’t buy but bid one brought more money. 

[Reichow7120]

2 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

There are many of those cows that make their way up here. I won’t work around them anymore. My older neighbor used to buy them because they were cheap. It was absolutely not safe to be out in the open on foot with them if they had a calf. I think I have PTSD from working his cattle. Anything with droopy ears is discounted heavily here at auction. 

Anything with Brahman here gets hit hard. And with my personal experience with Beefmasters, ( Brahman crossed in) i wouldn't want them unless they were cheap. And even then I'd have to think about it.

 

[Lazy WP]

I think it’s pretty obvious that what works for 1 part of the world doesn’t work in ALL parts of the world. I am willing to bet BIG MONEY, that the feeders in western Kansas are wishing they had a bunch of eared cattle in the pens, instead of a bunch of dead black cattle heading to the rendering plant. 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

1 hour ago, Reichow7120 said:

Anything with Brahman here gets hit hard. And with my personal experience with Beefmasters, ( Brahman crossed in) i wouldn't want them unless they were cheap. And even then I'd have to think about it.

 

When our neighbor died, his daughter rented us all the pasture. The deal was we had to buy all the cows. We eventually loaded every single one up and got rid of them. The last few that took months to even catch had to be shoved in the trailer with a tractor and loader. You could not be in a pen with them. We had cattle panels stacked two high held up with other loaders so they couldn’t jump out. They were an absolute dangerous nightmare. Someone inexperienced could have easily been killed. You never, ever turned your back on one in the open. They were all bought really cheap and I’m sure he made some good money with them. But he was an old man and never had to handle them himself. 

[Reichow7120]

53 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

When our neighbor died, his daughter rented us all the pasture. The deal was we had to buy all the cows. We eventually loaded every single one up and got rid of them. The last few that took months to even catch had to be shoved in the trailer with a tractor and loader. You could not be in a pen with them. We had cattle panels stacked two high held up with other loaders so they couldn’t jump out. They were an absolute dangerous nightmare. Someone inexperienced could have easily been killed. You never, ever turned your back on one in the open. They were all bought really cheap and I’m sure he made some good money with them. But he was an old man and never had to handle them himself. 

We got our few through a deal with my Dad's uncle ( married my Grandma Reichow's sister) who by that point was in Georgia.

My Uncle was starting a beef cow heard and their Uncle cut a deal with him. Then a few extra were thrown in the load for us too. 

Arleigh wasn't a cattleman by nature. But he was a man who thought he'd make a buck, he'd do it. Made a killing on concrete and had patents on special forms and equipment to pour highway barriers. 

I don't know how him and his son got into raising Beefmasters. But they did and a number of them ended up up here. 

Our final straw with them was the 6 hr fight to catch one the was having a breech delivered. Started out with a live calf in breech position. Ended up with a dead calf and that cow on a truck the following Wednesday. 2 others finished the year and went after the calves were weaned.

Also have some good stories of my cousin taking some steers from those cows of my Uncle's to the county fair. Surprised that nobody got hurt during those events.  Sticks in my mind still and that was the later 90s.

[Reichow7120]

1 hour ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

When our neighbor died, his daughter rented us all the pasture. The deal was we had to buy all the cows. We eventually loaded every single one up and got rid of them. The last few that took months to even catch had to be shoved in the trailer with a tractor and loader. You could not be in a pen with them. We had cattle panels stacked two high held up with other loaders so they couldn’t jump out. They were an absolute dangerous nightmare. Someone inexperienced could have easily been killed. You never, ever turned your back on one in the open. They were all bought really cheap and I’m sure he made some good money with them. But he was an old man and never had to handle them himself. 

We got our few through a deal with my Dad's uncle ( married my Grandma Reichow's sister) who by that point was in Georgia.

My Uncle was starting a beef cow heard and their Uncle cut a deal with him. Then a few extra were thrown in the load for us too. 

Arleigh wasn't a cattleman by nature. But he was a man who thought he'd make a buck, he'd do it. Made a killing on concrete and had patents on special forms and equipment to pour highway barriers. 

I don't know how him and his son got into raising Beefmasters. But they did and a number of them ended up up here. 

Our final straw with them was the 6 hr fight to catch one the was having a breech delivered. Started out with a live calf in breech position. Ended up with a dead calf and that cow on a truck the following Wednesday. 2 others finished the year and went after the calves were weaned.

Also have some good stories of my cousin taking some steers from those cows of my Uncle's to the county fair. Surprised that nobody got hurt during those events.  Sticks in my mind still and that was the later 90s.

Sorry about the double posts. 

[Lazy WP]

I have been mauled worse by black cows than all of the rest combined. Probably a good part of my HATE for the black cattle. Didn’t help that the only black steer I ever showed, years ago, won the class, but wouldn’t grade well enough to pay for the feed, let alone pay for him. Fed exactly the same as all the others I had showed and wouldn’t place in the carcass class. 
Just like tractors, vehicles, oils or anything else, our experience determines how we respond to it. 
I have been around some really nice eared cattle, also some man killers from the same place. I USED to really enjoy the man killers, 40 years ago. Now I love my Pinzgauer cows who come running when I call their names. Poor excuse for a cowboy, I know!!

[Gearclash]

In my recent local travels I came past a feedlot with 3 dead fat cattle waiting for the rendering truck.  It's been hot, humid and quiet here -- and the deads were black whiteface.  Thermodynamic laws cannot be revoked.  

[acem]

Not all eared cattle are the same.

True F1 hybrids have excellent vigor but some attitude. They can be caught but require skill and the right facilities. Have the pen set up right and feed in it regularly and they are easy to catch. Use the same sorting method every time and they will go where they need to to get out. Their memories are excellent. Have a bad experience once and they never forget. After a few good experiences in the pen and they are not as bad. Generally these cattle are not worked alot like many British cattle are. A true F1 rarely needs calving assistance unless you have monster bulls in with them.

But like hybrid corn, if you save the progeny, it's not as good. Their heifers typically are not as good in many ways.

Any cow can hurt you. 

True F1 cows bring a very good price here. Much better south of here. I doubt they have a good fit up north as they are specifically bred for hot humid conditions where British and continental cattle don't do so well.

1/4 or less Brahman calves bring a good price in southern markets. It doesn't pay to ship them north. Whiteface cattle sell better up north than down here.

Y'all are having a heat wave but it's just a typical summer for us. June through September. Even longer south of here.

Dad was a much better cattleman than me. He said cattle that thrive in one area will often fail in another.