Hay Tractor

[ComancheStarFarms]

How likely would a good condition IH186 run a Vermeer 605 Super M baler (5’X6’ 1500+ lbs bales)?  Vermeer specs require 80PTO HP but recommends 100.  Tractor Data states the 186 has 105.  Thoughts?

[sd186man]

Just fine, we did it this year but it doesn’t keep steady speed up and down hills like the 5288, haha

[Gearclash]

Flat ground maybe be OK?  If it is truly 105 PTO HP I think it will protest going up a hill.  I used to pull NH 5x6 balers with a NH tractor that dynoed 100 hp and it would fall on its face in hilly ground.  And it seems Vermeers like power.  They are heavy balers too.  Its my opinion that minimum hp requirements for round balers are woefully optimistic.  Those are power levels that will get the job done, no more.  They are not the power levels you would need to maximize the output of the baler.  My recommendation would be 120 hp at the PTO.  

[JaredT]

Hydro 186 with a turbo is a pretty powerful tractor, easy to add the turbo.  Ours came with a turbo when we bought it 2 years ago.  We will never use it for lugging, light pulling only and mostly PTO work. We punch a 70 lb. small square bale with a NH 5070 hayliner, tractor handles it exceptionally well. 

[stronger800]

I know nothing of big square balers but guys making 1500 lb bales all use 200hp fwd tractors around here. Twice as heavy as a 186.   I’ve half heartedly thought about getting one, but they tell me my weighted down 1466’s wouldn’t be heavy enough to handle them safely.  I have 12-15’ rotary hay rakes that spec 35 or 40 hp.  I use 70 and sometimes wish I used a bigger tractor.

 

[HydroTek]

The OP is asking about a 5x6 round baler

the Hydro 186 is plenty of tractor for that baler , unless he has steep hills -- then get a 4 wheel drive to help with traction

Ran a 6x6 around here several years ago -- was fine in most places with a 2 wheel drive tractor - except on the hills
Running a 4x6 and a 4x5 now -- the smaller balers make a better bale pulling in a wide windrow -- and transporting on the road is easier because of the trailer width

The large square balers need a bigger tractor because of the weight of the baler on hills -- seen them push smaller tractors down the hills , which is dangerous
Most around here would not use less than a Magnum with front drive

[stronger800]

When he said 1500 lbs, I just thought square, but 5x6 would be impossible to be square wouldn’t it. I’ve never seen a 1500 lb round bale here in the East 

[Gearclash]

40 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

When he said 1500 lbs, I just thought square, but 5x6 would be impossible to be square wouldn’t it. I’ve never seen a 1500 lb round bale here in the East 

1500 lb would be pretty typical for a 5x6 hay bale.  Not too hard to hit 1800 plus with a little moisture and crank the density some.  

[stronger800]

4x5 or 5x5 are more common here.  10-13%, Kuhns and NH most common.

almost no market for a dry round bale out this way.  
even the guys that feed them seem to do them wet  

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

1 hour ago, stronger800 said:

When he said 1500 lbs, I just thought square, but 5x6 would be impossible to be square wouldn’t it. I’ve never seen a 1500 lb round bale here in the East 

I would have thought with as much trouble as you have getting it to dry that 1,500 would be light. People here want them around that weight. It would be possible to get them several hundred pounds more than that with dry hay, but it would be hard on the baler. 

[stronger800]

Neighbor does a few hundred dry round bales a year, sometimes I rake for him if I have time. He’s not looking to have it as dry as what I want, but not too many years ago he was selling them for $35 a bale, where as that same bale made into squares would be 2-2.5x the money 

 

[WisIHCFarmer]

I ran a tired 986 with a slightly juiced up pump for several years on a 4×6 round baler, worked fine as long as you were fine with shifting down on a long hill. Now i have a 5088 with a dt466, S2E turbo and a pump reworked by @DirtBoyz07 and I no longer have to shift down. It will work fine, definitely add the turbo. 

[WisIHCFarmer]

8 hours ago, stronger800 said:

I know nothing of big square balers but guys making 1500 lb bales all use 200hp fwd tractors around here. Twice as heavy as a 186.   I’ve half heartedly thought about getting one, but they tell me my weighted down 1466’s wouldn’t be heavy enough to handle them safely.  I have 12-15’ rotary hay rakes that spec 35 or 40 hp.  I use 70 and sometimes wish I used a bigger tractor.

 

Well I guess if my magnum went down I wouldn't hesitate to put a 14 on a big square baler because of the weight, as long as you added a bunch of weights and duals. Our boxcar magnums are ballasted very little to none and I've never been pushed around a bit or had to turn the front assist on. The biggest drawback of a 14 on a big baler would be the transmission, powershift on a long hill in heavy hay is absolutely priceless. You might be dealing with alot bigger hills then I do tho.

[sd186man]

Just my experience trying to answer the OP’s question, we’ve used the H186 on New Holland and Deere 5x6 round balers for 25+years, last summer was the first time on the Vermeer 605 super M, no problem with it, could tell it takes more power than Deere, baler weighs about 1500 pounds more and is geared to bale faster. 1500 pounds is a good average bale weight around here, oat and bale hay easily goes higher. Haven’t got around to slapping a turbo on yet 

[brewcrew]

2 hours ago, WisIHCFarmer said:

Well I guess if my magnum went down I wouldn't hesitate to put a 14 on a big square baler because of the weight, as long as you added a bunch of weights and duals. Our boxcar magnums are ballasted very little to none and I've never been pushed around a bit or had to turn the front assist on. The biggest drawback of a 14 on a big baler would be the transmission, powershift on a long hill in heavy hay is absolutely priceless. You might be dealing with alot bigger hills then I do tho.

My cousin has been pulling his hesston 3x3 baler for two decades behind his 1466. He has a year around cab and full fluid in the rears. He has baled some rough ground for us over the years without issues, but is a fussy guy and quality operator. I had a guy swear he had the first big square baler in the area and pulled it with an 806 with no fluid. That would require planning ahead!!

[stronger800]

Local guy died here three years ago, 806 ahead of a new round baler, and too big of a hill 

[stronger800]

All hills here.  That dot in the far field, first  pic, is the same tractor and baler

[acem]

We have some pretty steep mountains round here but not on my place.

Many people run 4x5 balers on steep hills with 50hp utility tractors with no extra weight.

They just go sideways instead of straight up and down. Works fine.

 

[HydroTek]

Always fun to see those bales roll down the hill and jump the road

[WisIHCFarmer]

13 hours ago, brewcrew said:

My cousin has been pulling his hesston 3x3 baler for two decades behind his 1466. He has a year around cab and full fluid in the rears. He has baled some rough ground for us over the years without issues, but is a fussy guy and quality operator. I had a guy swear he had the first big square baler in the area and pulled it with an 806 with no fluid. That would require planning ahead!!

That had to have sounded good on a hard pull in heavy hay lol. Everytime the plunger takes a flake my 7130 puffs a little smoke. Can only imagine what an 806 would do.

[td9inidaho]

My 1486 handles the NH 664 easily weight wise. 1800+ lb bales for me please. I don't have to feed as often. This is however, the same baler that took out the pump, shaft, coupler inside. Haven't split the tractor yet to find out.  Maybe a project this winter 

Mark 

[801486]

I've baled a lot with and 856 on a 605J and a 535 JD when the 1486 was broke down.  Lots of big hills in the Loess hills of western Iowa.  No trouble getting pushed just tipped over once.  

[Cdfarabaugh]

We round bale with a BR7060 crop cutter, which is about as heavy as you can make a 4x5 baler and sops a bit more HP.

Don't do much wet hay, but do a lot dry with the cutting knives in.  Pull it with a 6615 deere which it dynos 115HP (actually verified it myself).  When you have the pressure turned up and you're really eating hay it hazes smoke pretty good on a decent hill, but I've never seen it maxed out.  

I'd run a H186 on it in a heartbeat.  Be slick to do direction changes and back up to place bales so they don't roll.  

As far as getting pushed around I think most get in trouble turning coming off a hill.  Tractor isn't in line anymore, gets pushed sideways and in a bad case gets rolled.   When going straight down a hill it's a lot less likely to get away on you.  If it's a little greasy though, of course all bets are off.  

We small square bale with an 806, and have had 200 bale loads behind the baler.   I figured with the baler, hay and the rack about 8 tons.  Never had it get away or spin out yet, but there's 2 specific no go zones on the farm you don't attempt with a full load.  

 

[db1486]

A H186 on a round baler would be a perfect combo. We got a Hydro 100 and a 1486, running 5x6 Hesston balers. We got hills, lots of hills. I will say with the hydro climbing the bigger hills I have to slow down to 3-4 mph. We should really turbo it up. I think it would help in the hills and definitely make it a little less thirsty. But normally I'm running as fast is it will go in low range, 7 mph usually. I like running the 14 with the other baler but I sure don't miss pushing the clutch in heavy hay. I'd like to find a H186 or a 3488 someday just for baling. As far as hp, I ran the newer baler with the 766 when the 1486 went down last year. It handled it just fine, and really couldn't tell its half the hp, except in the big hills I had to run low 3. Otherwise high 1 and go. No idea on the vermeer but I would think it would be much the same. I will say with the fully auto hesston you can sure feel it take more power when it kicks on compared to the other

[Jacka]

I bale 4x4 dry hay.I know for sure 4x5 silage bales would take a lot more HP. But I climb all over my hills with my Hydro 70.Its turned up a bit, I figured about 80 hp or so but not sure.I have hills so steep you can't mow across. I cut,rake and bale catty-corner.Up and down from corner to corner. I have no issues with my Hydro 70.I had a 1066 on it but like the size of the H70.1066 was way overkill.I also have a 1026 and Hydro 100 but they do other stuff.Wet hay, the additional power needed to bale and hold it back i would be using a bigger tractor for sure.