small rural towns

[hagan]

we have had a nice small rural town her for over a century but in the past few decades there have been several stumbeling blocks. In 1980 we lost the bid on Iown Beef to Holcomb Kansas (mainly because of water issues) but a few fellows invested heavily on it and went under. Then in 1981 came the high interest and low commodity prices and the farming industry got tough and several banks in the area went under but none in this town. About the same time Neoplan (a German bus plant) came in and the city and county gave them land and free taxes for a certain time. They were very very slow at paying their vendors for supplies and materials and they eventually they closed up in 2006 so there was no industry to speak of besides a few smaller manufacturing plants and some of them have such close. Things were pretty good but as we all get old the city fathers were all getting old and all are gone now and the town council runs this town with citizens who now stand in line on Fridays for a paycheck. One guy has a business and employees several people, Another has a business but does not employee many workers. Everyone else is waiting on a paycheck. They recently purchased a 50 year old car dealership building that has all kinds of issues as now we need another fire department and police station in tn. his town so this building is where it will be. The floor up is not strong enough for fire trucks and it will take major re working. Every time there is a council meeting all concil votes the same. The mayor has one of his employees in his business running for council and his brother in law as well. This looks like a stacked deck to me. The local Safeway is closing and 50 workers are being un employeed. But they think this town will grow to 20,000 in the next few years while it was 8879 in 2000 and presently 7641 in 2024 i just do not see how this town is going to grow much with no descent airport for 100 miles and 200 from DIA. It will suprise me if the town does not loose popluation rather than grow.    

I just wanted to say my 10 cents worth as i feel eventually the town will be broke. The Farmers are having a very tough year and there will not be excess money to spend here

[Big Bud guy]

Interesting what is considered “small rural town” in different parts of the country.  My home town is about 400 pop with a handful of businesses.  Next town would be over 3,000 with all sorts of businesses. 

[MacAR]

Your city would be consider fairly large here... my town has 368 people, 1 gas station/ stop & rob store, 1 branch bank (two employees, my wife runs it), a post office and 4 churches. We roll the streets up at dusk. If you want anything, you have to go 12 miles north to the county seat (Pop 1900) where there's a few restaurants and stores, but not a lot. Nearest Walmart is a 35 minute drive to a different city in a neighboring county with a population of around 10k. 

But to your original point: small towns all over the US are dying. There are no jobs in them, so people are either commuting or moving to larger cities. Of course, this isn't really new, it's been happening since the Second World War. The downside (at least in Arkansas) is that now that the original residents are moving or dying out, people from other states are moving in and trying to take over. Which in turn leads to more people moving out, more foreigners moving in, and more little towns dying out. So while I feel your pain, I'm afraid that's the way things are going. At least we can say we enjoyed them while they lasted. 

[766 Man]

23 minutes ago, MacAR said:

Your city would be consider fairly large here... my town has 368 people, 1 gas station/ stop & rob store, 1 branch bank (two employees, my wife runs it), a post office and 4 churches. We roll the streets up at dusk. If you want anything, you have to go 12 miles north to the county seat (Pop 1900) where there's a few restaurants and stores, but not a lot. Nearest Walmart is a 35 minute drive to a different city in a neighboring county with a population of around 10k. 

But to your original point: small towns all over the US are dying. There are no jobs in them, so people are either commuting or moving to larger cities. Of course, this isn't really new, it's been happening since the Second World War. The downside (at least in Arkansas) is that now that the original residents are moving or dying out, people from other states are moving in and trying to take over. Which in turn leads to more people moving out, more foreigners moving in, and more little towns dying out. So while I feel your pain, I'm afraid that's the way things are going. At least we can say we enjoyed them while they lasted. 

  Made worse with outsiders who sell their crappy big city home for comparatively big bucks to the homes of the small town then move to small town.  Soon the young people who grew up in the small town realize that they can't afford to buy a home there so they move on.  Outsiders gradually take over small town and play the stereo on maximum at 3AM, don't believe in a quiet muffler, and dump trash into surrounding properties.  Small town soon lacks sufficient law enforcement to handle newcomers plus big city lawyer opens a branch in small town so law breakers spend no time in jail.  Soon offenses rise from dumping trash onto neighbor to parking non registered vehicle onto neighbor.  Then  outsider law breaker has the nerve to ask if somebody can drive him and his tatted wife who has clothes which are too small for their body for a ride to the state maximum security prison an hour away to visit brother "who got a bad deal" for beating his wife after taking 100 dollars from local convenience store.  

[Matt Kirsch]

They can "stack the deck" all they want, but if there are no tax dollars to spend, they're just pissin' in the wind...

[lotsaIHCs]

7600 would be a pretty big town in ND. My home town, 12 miles away, has around 800-1000. Closest town to me, 5 miles away has about 30. Closest city is 30 or so miles and around 80,000. My home town has city commission woes too. Same goes for school board. Too many buddy buddy good old boy relationships with a foot on each side of the fence in business matters. Superintendent is buddies with school board members and his brother is a bigwig for the architecture firm that won the bid to remodel the school. City commission president has her fingers in both public and private endeavors in which her involvement could be considered a conflict of interest. Etc. Etc.

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

My hometown was founded at the intersection of two railroad tracks.  No nearby rivers.  Early on, it was a boom town with the railroad at the center with commodities loaded and delivered.   Then the college was founded here.  Manufacturing and the farming economy made the town strong.   Railroads lost out as society changed.   Less freight.  Manufacturing was reduced as the community became rooted in the communications and insurance industries. Landline phones disappeared and the telephone companies left town.  Manufacturing dried up.  The college became a controlling presence in the community.   Certain industries were not welcomed in town because of the labor force they employ.  The college would not let that happen here.....  Today, much of the community supports the college needs.  Mostly service industries now.  The agricultural industry is important,  but pales against the college generated revenue.

[cumminstinkerer]

@nepoweshiekfarmalls nice word selection Aaron! I've watched my small town of around 1000 when I was in school, 435 kids k-12, go to closer to 6000 in the last 25 years, my nephew was going to school there a few years ago and his grade had almost 300, I know almost noone around anymore and really don't care to. We have the same BS going on in the town and my county as mentioned above. Heck Aaron you've probably heard about my county on the news, Im NE Madison, and to be very open I am friends with one of the supervisors that is causing some of the stir but for the correct reasons, I freely admit that I spoke to the state AG about investigating more of the good ol boy shenanigan's than what they already were!  

[Big Bud guy]

40 minutes ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

My hometown was founded at the intersection of two railroad tracks.  No nearby rivers.  Early on, it was a boom town with the railroad at the center with commodities loaded and delivered.   Then the college was founded here.  Manufacturing and the farming economy made the town strong.   Railroads lost out as society changed.   Less freight.  Manufacturing was reduced as the community became rooted in the communications and insurance industries. Landline phones disappeared and the telephone companies left town.  Manufacturing dried up.  The college became a controlling presence in the community.   Certain industries were not welcomed in town because of the labor force they employ.  The college would not let that happen here.....  Today, much of the community supports the college needs.  Mostly service industries now.  The agricultural industry is important,  but pales against the college generated revenue.

Today the only thing that keeps my town from being a ghost town is the US/Candian border specifically the port and border patrol.  80 years it was Ag and oil.  We had a refinery but it closed in the 50s and Ag is well Ag. 

[MacAR]

4 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  Made worse with outsiders who sell their crappy big city home for comparatively big bucks to the homes of the small town then move to small town.  Soon the young people who grew up in the small town realize that they can't afford to buy a home there so they move on.  Outsiders gradually take over small town and play the stereo on maximum at 3AM, don't believe in a quiet muffler, and dump trash into surrounding properties.  Small town soon lacks sufficient law enforcement to handle newcomers plus big city lawyer opens a branch in small town so law breakers spend no time in jail.  Soon offenses rise from dumping trash onto neighbor to parking non registered vehicle onto neighbor.  Then  outsider law breaker has the nerve to ask if somebody can drive him and his tatted wife who has clothes which are too small for their body for a ride to the state maximum security prison an hour away to visit brother "who got a bad deal" for beating his wife after taking 100 dollars from local convenience store.  

You got it in spades, brother! 

[Reichow7120]

2 hours ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

My hometown was founded at the intersection of two railroad tracks.  No nearby rivers.  Early on, it was a boom town with the railroad at the center with commodities loaded and delivered.   Then the college was founded here.  Manufacturing and the farming economy made the town strong.   Railroads lost out as society changed.   Less freight.  Manufacturing was reduced as the community became rooted in the communications and insurance industries. Landline phones disappeared and the telephone companies left town.  Manufacturing dried up.  The college became a controlling presence in the community.   Certain industries were not welcomed in town because of the labor force they employ.  The college would not let that happen here.....  Today, much of the community supports the college needs.  Mostly service industries now.  The agricultural industry is important,  but pales against the college generated revenue.

Are we neighbors and I don't know it? Other than the 2 intersecting railroads, no rivers you described mine.

Classic rust belt town in Michigan. At its peak. Population was close to 20,000. Industry, oil fields, farming and then the small liberal arts college were what was around here. This was 40s through late 70s.

Early 80s hit really hard around here. 3 major factories went in relatively short order. I know in one point in 1982 the unemployment rate in the area was 28%. Those scars in the area lasted a long time. Growing up in the 90s i told the wife in a remark that i didn't know you were supposed to not go to school a block away from a abandoned factory. I went from Kindergarten up until high school never being more than a block away from a abandoned factory. In fact the first day in school assembly you attend where they go over the rules. One thing that was hit upon was always don't go into the abandoned factories. And that was thru multiple buildings during my time. 

Things stabilized during the 90s but then went to #ell during the early 2000s recession. We even lost a entire hospital that go around. After that second go around Albion really got that Detroit vibe going. Oil fields went in the late 90s so there wasn't that even to fall back on. College ended up ruling the town except for welfare/ project crowd. And there's plenty around here. Those worth a damn left to find work. Those that were left. Well, why leave? My welfare checks find me here. So you can guess what it's like. Lots of abandoned houses and buildings around. Town is perpetually broke. 

Down to a population of 7000 now. School district that had graduating classes in the 200s in the 70s. I was in a graduating class off 120 in 2002, no longer exists as of 2016.

Even the college isn't flying high anymore. They had a president a few years ago that spent money like the federal government until he screwed up in a racial situation that got him canned. They realized after him that they had a money problem. Spent too much and in the process the wealthy donors stopped giving and there wasn't the pool of wealthy students wanting to go there as there used to be. So they have been selling anything that isn't necessary for a buck. Land, buildings, horse farm, event halls. 

We're ranked 8th most dangerous city in Michigan. If it wasn't for the farm. I sure wouldn't be here.

[yellowrosefarm]

I'm in a college town of about 50,000 that is quickly losing its "small town" feel. The amount of growth is hard to understand given what is here. There is no manufacturing, very little true AG and not all that much to do. The best jobs are at the college and a large Federal intelligence center, or in construction right now. Any sort of trade work is 100$/hr or more, making this the 2nd most expensive place to live in the state. The college has a 14.2 BILLION dollar endowment so they aren't going anywhere, even with the fed money cuts. Average rent is over $2000/month, a very modest house on no land is in the 400's.  35 years ago you could get a nice house under 50,000. Those houses are 600+ now.  Homeless people are all over the place, teen aged "shots fired" incidents happen virtually every week, there was one of the largest fentanyl busts in the state here a couple of months ago, cars are broken into and/or stolen every week, etc, etc. 

[acem]

My immediate area has a kinda odd history.

Original settlers were Cherokee Indians sent here to resettle after being pushed out of Georgia, etc. Then they were then pushed out of here to west of Fort Smith. Then  European settlers moved in. During  the Civil War many towns were burned in the River Valley as union troops went through. More settlers after the war, many fresh immigrants from Germany. Population growth was steady after the Cherokees were pushed out.

At the end of the 1800s coal was found and the boom was on!  Growth within 5 miles was crazy. Records are somewhat contradictory but probably around 10,000 people lived round here. There were schools, churches, businesses even a college (Hendrix now in Conway). 

The mines started playing out. They opened up more but coal was loosing out to oil and the population continued to shrink. The shaft mines didnt last long after WWII. There were a few strip mines operating but by the time I was born in 67 it they mostly a ghost towns. Empty houses and buildings were common when I was a kid. Some of our place was once subdivisions.

Population has been more or less steady since 1960 or so. I live in the country south of Alix, Altus and Denning. Less than 1000 people in all three.

There has been an influx of out of state people here lately. However it's mostly offset by young people leaving for better jobs. The out of state people are mostly retired. Many others are buying property for a Retreat. These people are running the price of land up too high.

 

[766 Man]

1 hour ago, Reichow7120 said:

Are we neighbors and I don't know it? Other than the 2 intersecting railroads, no rivers you described mine.

Classic rust belt town in Michigan. At its peak. Population was close to 20,000. Industry, oil fields, farming and then the small liberal arts college were what was around here. This was 40s through late 70s.

Early 80s hit really hard around here. 3 major factories went in relatively short order. I know in one point in 1982 the unemployment rate in the area was 28%. Those scars in the area lasted a long time. Growing up in the 90s i told the wife in a remark that i didn't know you were supposed to not go to school a block away from a abandoned factory. I went from Kindergarten up until high school never being more than a block away from a abandoned factory. In fact the first day in school assembly you attend where they go over the rules. One thing that was hit upon was always don't go into the abandoned factories. And that was thru multiple buildings during my time. 

Things stabilized during the 90s but then went to #ell during the early 2000s recession. We even lost a entire hospital that go around. After that second go around Albion really got that Detroit vibe going. Oil fields went in the late 90s so there wasn't that even to fall back on. College ended up ruling the town except for welfare/ project crowd. And there's plenty around here. Those worth a damn left to find work. Those that were left. Well, why leave? My welfare checks find me here. So you can guess what it's like. Lots of abandoned houses and buildings around. Town is perpetually broke. 

Down to a population of 7000 now. School district that had graduating classes in the 200s in the 70s. I was in a graduating class off 120 in 2002, no longer exists as of 2016.

Even the college isn't flying high anymore. They had a president a few years ago that spent money like the federal government until he screwed up in a racial situation that got him canned. They realized after him that they had a money problem. Spent too much and in the process the wealthy donors stopped giving and there wasn't the pool of wealthy students wanting to go there as there used to be. So they have been selling anything that isn't necessary for a buck. Land, buildings, horse farm, event halls. 

We're ranked 8th most dangerous city in Michigan. If it wasn't for the farm. I sure wouldn't be here.

  Similar trajectory in terms of area economy but the quality jobs like the oil industry were never here prior to the bad times.  The area economy peaked in 1980 while I was in high school then went through a very hard downturn very shortly thereafter.  A few manufacturers closed up and the US government via the Seneca Army Depot was downsizing with the intent of closing.  As we know agriculture went through some extremely tough times with the 1980 grain embargo and the end of dairy price support programs.  The big city jobs that people made a commute an hour one way were affected as well.  1982 was the first of a series of layoffs for Eastman Kodak which was the largest employer in Rochester, NY at the time.  Did not figure out one component of irrattionally rising of home prices until recently.  More loans are being made with less than 5 percent down.  Realtors adjusted selling prices accordingly to react to the new "affordability."

[mmi]

Our "governing "body is 27 sq miles,cut from 45 sm  when new county lines were needed. The 30 ish "full service +- industry job" towns " within have been dying since '77.   It was brought up for discussion last week,IF ? any one had the data? WHat viable farm land remains and/or is farmed? my guesstimate < 2000/600ac 

It was a "township" since 1790 ,elevated to "boro" in 1950 with 90% say in any "town" . We had (1) mayor until 1990,whom had an even hand,kept a mix of ALL "uses". kept every farm possible ,govt and BTOs out. 1 to 6 cops

When I talked with him in'87, .he said that was his last (unopposed) WIN. New mop and bleach of high govt was taking over. And it has been much that "rules for THEE"  right down to laws that are clearly for, but simply omit the name of x they want bankrupt and seized.Now it is NEW/MORE tax/s or faux FEE every 6 months.

Also Forcing out every business they can.And now basically ZONING them out except select BTO "owners"

The last 1735 farm/portion, in the family,went in 2020. 80 yr old out of state cousin couldnt pay the high tax $6k>  80 ac. Forced the price $ down to 4??,000K, NO!!! tax to "developer" ever, now the cidiotes, throw up shacks, have to cost that much+ min $1K mo/tax ,160 lots.

last census which predicted a 3% yr decline had 27 K ppl. Since, "they" wasted $160 mil ,on keep up with nyc taj mahal, "buying"forcing, for tax 135 acres, Then"civic" central, banquet hall, event center,movies in the "park"(no one can afford to rent) city "offices,city works,fire,(little for the other 3)let it burn), ambulance, (30 !!!) new cop cars and 2 story garage,salt and garbage can center,yada    Razing the old 20ac "claiming" a grocery chain is going to (never) pay millions to build a store (near no one).When only 2 bto chains remain open in pop center.

Schools are 2x $240Mil, worse adding 2% yr, in building/s size,and needing to redo shoddy overprice crap every 10 yrs(near tear downs)(insert declining pop( cant have $10K /mo, house car tax etc and 0-2 children))  Demolish 40 yr old buildings as not sustainable, yet keep,unused a few 80-120 yr old.  They did sell one with redacted asbestos issues ,as "approved" for office complex , WHen the owner was just too deep in,local Govt said ,clean up mandated or else ,'doesnt matter we redacted" ,"permits" pulled/denied , He died in prison broke ...! 

[Lazy WP]

Man you guys all live in the metro area. The county I grew up in has less than 450 people in the entire county. The county seat doesn’t even have a post office now. No manufacturing, no anything now. 
The ranches have gone to bigger tractors and where they used to hire 5 or 6 workers now they are a single family ranch. 
We used to have one of the largest turkey growers in the nation, but that was before Tyson and whoever else built all the turkey farms in Missouri and Arkansas. Used to have the only bank that survived the crash in the 1920s, but they got sold out several years ago due to people getting old. 
Closest Walmart is over 100 miles away. Closest equipment dealer is 70 miles away. 

[TroyDairy]

2 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

Man you guys all live in the metro area. The county I grew up in has less than 450 people in the entire county. The county seat doesn’t even have a post office now. No manufacturing, no anything now. 
The ranches have gone to bigger tractors and where they used to hire 5 or 6 workers now they are a single family ranch. 
We used to have one of the largest turkey growers in the nation, but that was before Tyson and whoever else built all the turkey farms in Missouri and Arkansas. Used to have the only bank that survived the crash in the 1920s, but they got sold out several years ago due to people getting old. 
Closest Walmart is over 100 miles away. Closest equipment dealer is 70 miles away. 

Sounds like a kinda nice place really....

[TroyDairy]

Interesting side.....

New concern on a podcast i listen too is that all the remote work is changing already.  Alot of the big tech guys are requiring return to office.  100s of 1000s fled 2020 riots and worked remote escaping crap holes like Minni and Seattle or Portland etc.  Now the co are says its not working.  So all these folk whom move 1 2 3 hr out of the city may have to move back.  After they falsly inflated the Real Estate market etc.  Thus the tax burden as well on locals.  My cousin works at a large tech company in Boise Idaho and he said it's unbelievable the lack of productivity anyone under 40 is getting working from home

[from H to 80]

29 minutes ago, TroyDairy said:

Closest Walmart is over 100 miles away

I couldn't afford the fuel,for my wife's vehicle !

[Diesel Doctor]

To many small towns think they can spend their way into prosperity.

They hire people to go get businesses and to move people into town.

I have seen neither that works. This money, to me, was wasted. 

The biggest issue we had was getting rid of the junk houses in town.

These were selling for almost nothing on Ebay and the rif-raf was moving into these and causing all kinds of problems.

The town started a corporation that bought up these dilapidated properties and tore them down.

I then suggested we give one 50' lot to any party that built a new home in one year.

Knowing very well they would then buy more lots for more room.

Look at future tax revenue vs zero if no one builds.

The things that seem to work is ag based industry.

Ethanol plants, butcher shops, mechanics, machine shops, dealerships and the like are the best businesses as most communities rely heavily on agriculture.

Now there is a 6-8 month wait to get a critter into a butcher shop. (Hint)

Machine shops are all but disappearing and are really needed. (Hint-Hint)

Don't look at what you want, look at what is needed!

 

 

 

[acem]

5 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

To many small towns think they can spend their way into prosperity.

They hire people to go get businesses and to move people into town.

I have seen neither that works. This money, to me, was wasted. 

The biggest issue we had was getting rid of the junk houses in town.

These were selling for almost nothing on Ebay and the rif-raf was moving into these and causing all kinds of problems.

The town started a corporation that bought up these dilapidated properties and tore them down.

I then suggested we give one 50' lot to any party that built a new home in one year.

Knowing very well they would then buy more lots for more room.

Look at future tax revenue vs zero if no one builds.

The things that seem to work is ag based industry.

Ethanol plants, butcher shops, mechanics, machine shops, dealerships and the like are the best businesses as most communities rely heavily on agriculture.

Now there is a 6-8 month wait to get a critter into a butcher shop. (Hint)

Machine shops are all but disappearing and are really needed. (Hint-Hint)

Don't look at what you want, look at what is needed!

 

 

 

Build on what you have.

[MacAR]

2 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

So all these folk whom move 1 2 3 hr out of the city may have to move back.  After they falsly inflated the Real Estate market etc.  Thus the tax burden as well on locals. 

Good, serves them right! 

I've said since 2020, it ought to be illegal in the state of Arkansas to buy land unless you were born and raised here... very unpopular opinion, but when you consider our county of 14K has five full time real estate offices with multiple employees, something needs to change. 

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said:

 

Machine shops are all but disappearing and are really needed. (Hint-Hint)

 

 

 

We had a good one in my hometown.  Smart, hard-working fella owned it.  Did quality work, was always busy, paid well, good benefits,  time off.  Could not find any qualified workers.   Could not find anyone willing to go to school for tool & die (he would cover tuition) and graduate with a guaranteed job and pay.   He finally closed the business,  had an auction and the building is empty now.  So sad.  Nobody wanted to do dirty, manual labor.

[Reichow7120]

1 hour ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

We had a good one in my hometown.  Smart, hard-working fella owned it.  Did quality work, was always busy, paid well, good benefits,  time off.  Could not find any qualified workers.   Could not find anyone willing to go to school for tool & die (he would cover tuition) and graduate with a guaranteed job and pay.   He finally closed the business,  had an auction and the building is empty now.  So sad.  Nobody wanted to do dirty, manual labor.

Sadly that happens a lot.

Slightly different scenario, but NAPA we loved using was same type of problem. Owner couldn't get help to run the store. He is a year older than Dad so at the time he was 69. He was to the point he could retire. If he could have found good help so he didn't have to be there all the time he would have kept it open. But he didn't. So 2 years ago, he closed up. Building is for sale right now. But not moving to fast 

[forwhldrv]

We live in a small New England town about 750 people there was a commune in part of the town in the late 60’s some of the problem is some of them never left they are the first to complain about pot holes and plowed roads but when the DPW(all2 of them )  wants to fix a road or god forbid cut a tree they are always against  it. Most of em drive their cars to the town common on Saturday’s to have a climate change vigil they hold up signs that say stop fossil fuel. Our school closed down a few years ago no kids in town 25 I think in K-6 grade they go to another towns school a bunch of parents have been trying to get a community school going. I grew up in a small town maybe 100 kids K-6 grade I was lucky enough my daughter went to a small town elementary school now she is a freshman at a Tech school that seems like the shop program has a good direction it’s going there is still some FFA in the school. We drive for every thing you pick it up on the way home the Nh border is 10 miles north and a Walmart is 10 miles south in another town so it’s not very inconvenient but I grew up in a town with nothing in it so I’m used to it.