electromics in modern tractors

[pt756]

Good morning, yesterday a neighbor brought over his Haybuster rock picker for us to rent and use, his FIL dabbles in used tractors, years ago he was big into those  foreign tractors, mostly compact ones, now he does stuff like New hollands, anyway as we were hooking up the picker to the Magnum comment was made about newer tractors , he said FIL bought a workmaster 50 out of Texas, sun drenched but claim was 27 hours with computer problems, anyway they had dealer hook up laptop. took about an hour to clear out all the codes, tractro is fine now, never turned a wrench,

[acem]

A neighbor has a modern JD 8xxx tractor with JD central fill planter and Greenstar/computer controlling everything.  He has been down for over a week now.  The computers won't talk to each other or something.  Tractor won't autosteer.  Planter won't plant.  Errors in the network.  Dealer's high tech mechanic has been out several times with the laptop and all.  Thinks he's found the problem, orders parts, comes back in a couple days and tries again.  His tractor is still sitting there.

His brother is about done planting and will start planting for him in a few days.

He is pissed!

Bad part is he's a good mechanic but not with computerized electronics.

Not just a JD thing.  Happens to every color.

[Gearclash]

Last fall I parked a baler late one evening.  Came out the next morning to check the bale count and when I turned the monitor on it gave me some kind of communication error.  I could read the bale count and see the stored information but I could not get an operating screen.  Had a dealer look at it, verified that what NH calls the "H bridge"  had lost its mind overnight.  Dealer 2 hours away had the component, $1200 later.  Weird part is it was plug and play in an age of hook it up then download the vin specific software first. 

[TroyDairy]

Its weird.  I really dont think its terrible   but what is ao extra frustrating is that till...15 20 years ago.  WE could fix most anything on a machine and now we all need some help.  Sure they go down but it's the "now what?!" That makes it feel so bad. 

[New Englander]

8 hours ago, Gearclash said:

plug and play

Everything should be! Some of the avionics in the jets communicate with a master personality module which tells the replacement all it needs to know. Not everything works that way.

A few years back I was uploading a new navigation database to one of our planes while on an overnight. Each plane has a dedicated laptop that is never allowed to connect to the internet. I was using that sitting on the galley counter and plugged in to a power outlet with a coax to the cockpit. It takes close to an hour to do the update of nav, terrain, and obstacles. I noticed the carpet needed a vacuum. I checked the laptop battery and it showed better than 90% so I felt confident unplugging it and plugging in the vacuum. Mistake!!!!!!!!!The laptop battery was junk and it died during the update and crashed the top level software. All the cockpit screens were blank and I felt sick. We had the discs onboard and I started an up load. it estimated over 12 hours and I figured I was spending the night. Once the upload started though the time started counting down fairly rapidly and my heart lightened as it was just verifying. A couple of hours later I was up and running. Lesson learned, new battery ordered. I would never do an update anyway unless there was an extra day before the next flight as early on it was a sometimes sketchy process. Later it became easy and reliable. As an A&P I could do the updates and our mechanics trained a couple of the tech savvy pilots how to do it. 

We had the FO audio panel fail enroute SFO to Moscow with a passenger pickup in London. Our mechanic managed to get a replacement shipped to London and emailed me instructions on how to get configuration info from one of the other audio panels to the new one to make it work. Meanwhile the right seat guy had to stretch his mic and headset cords to the third crewman's audio panel across from the jump seat. I changed the panel in Moscow.

Back to plug n play. There's no reason that I know of that all the vehicle's details shouldn't be loaded on a master and the applicable software installed on each module. They should be able to talk to each other and set up to play. It probably would add to the cost of the machine but when talking the big money the machines cost and the cost of downtime.......

[jeeper61]

Some of the ECM tuning software programs recommend the laptop top to be on battery power only when doing a download 

[Gearclash]

Your rebuilt GM 6L80 transmission (specifically the TCM inside it) will need to be hooked up to the internet and reprogramed with a VIN specific program to operate properly. The TCM is shipped with a dyno testing program on it.  These transmissions all go in half ton platforms, is it really necessary to have VIN specific programming? 

[Rawleigh99]

I predict there will be no farm equipment collecting of the current equipment in the future because of the electronics not being supported.

[TroyDairy]

15 hours ago, Rawleigh99 said:

I predict there will be no farm equipment collecting of the current equipment in the future because of the electronics not being supported.

They are too few made vs the 30s to 70s.  Wonder what US tractor sales are vs those decades...?

 

The big problem is with electronics that they just degrade.  Mechanical stuff you can take apart, clean, adjust and make it work after sitting 100 years.  Like with gas a 150 year old model T will run.  But what about modern?  What wire is corroded or board cracked or sensor doa?  Whole new world when the 2000 plus rigs are 80 years old

[New Englander]

22 hours ago, Gearclash said:

Your rebuilt GM 6L80 transmission (specifically the TCM inside it) will need to be hooked up to the internet and reprogramed with a VIN specific program to operate properly. The TCM is shipped with a dyno testing program on it.  These transmissions all go in half ton platforms, is it really necessary to have VIN specific programming? 

This is an example of what a master module with all the vehicle information on it could do. The transmission needs to know axle ratios, engine, other options , etc. Why can't the transmission have the the selection available and just be told what the particular vehicle has? Cost, probably? Ability to upgrade or fix problems that occur? Warranty issues? 

I replaced a TPMS module in my kid's BMW then had to pay a dealer to program it. Seemed stupid. How complicated can that system be? All it really needs to know, I think, is what are the normal pressures to be able to tell the car if out of range. Why can't the car tell it what pressure to alert on? I don't know exactly how that system works but it just can't be all that complicated. It receives the pressure from the wheel sensors and tells the car what they are. 

[acem]

Planned obsolescence.

 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

On the equipment that we run, “electronic problems” is not a major problem. I could see John Deere supporting flagship models of 4wds and row crop tractors for at least 50 years. Some of the cheaper models not built in the USA will probably have poorer support. I don’t think in general that CNH parts support is nearly as good as Deere, but CNH as company has not existed for nearly as long. Maybe CNH will support CNH built equipment better than the equipment built by previous companies that they absorbed. 

[Black Shuck]

33 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Maybe CNH will support CNH built equipment better than the equipment built by previous companies that they absorbed. 

One would hope so, but I feel like it's not a great sign when they spin their engines off into an entirely separate company...

[Gearclash]

1 hour ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I could see John Deere supporting flagship models of 4wds and row crop tractors for at least 50 years.

Deere is no longer supporting electronic modules for the 8000/8010 tractors and other of that era.  New modules are still available but only as existing stock is depleted. 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

4 hours ago, Gearclash said:

Deere is no longer supporting electronic modules for the 8000/8010 tractors and other of that era.  New modules are still available but only as existing stock is depleted. 

What is unavailable? I guess you have run into this issue? I assume it would be no problem to source through aftermarket if Deere quits since the machines are so desirable. I did get a new engine ecm for the last series of 7.6 engines somewhat recently. The original style was unavailable, but a newer one was available to use by changing existing wiring to allow a dealer to load new software on to a newer style ecm. It was a fairly easy conversion, but I guess I could have just got old stock and they didn’t tell me. Cummins also no longer supports N14 engine ecm’s, but aftermarket support is no problem. I had to get a new one last fall for a 2000 Freightliner. 

[Gearclash]

3 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

What is unavailable? I guess you have run into this issue? I assume it would be no problem to source through aftermarket if Deere quits since the machines are so desirable.

I have not run into this personally; it was mentioned and verified on newagtalk.  I noted it as I maintain a few Deere tractors, two of which are that age.  There was no comment about aftermarket picking up the slack.  There were several comments to the effect that Deere was discontinuing them because the parts and processes used to make those 30ish year old controllers is obsolete.  In other words Deere can't get anyone to make them anymore.  

I am not an electronics expert by any contortion of the imagination, but it seems to me that reverse engineering control modules is many times more challenging than reverse engineering hard parts.  I know from experience that reverse engineering hard parts is challenge enough. 

Those who have worked with aftermarket solutions for the 50 series IH STS transmission can comment on this, and that is a relatively simple controller I would imagine.

The mechanical transmission control of the legacy 4 digit Magnums is in some ways a work of genius.  Truth is it works really well.  I think the mechanically controlled Magnum powershift is smoother than the controller operated early 8000/10 Deeres. 

As an aside, one other gripe about the Deere 16 speed vs the IH 18 speed is the jump from the second to highest gear to high gear.  Deere's is too big a gap. 

[Matt Kirsch]

On 5/15/2026 at 10:58 PM, TroyDairy said:

Its weird.  I really dont think its terrible   but what is ao extra frustrating is that till...15 20 years ago.  WE could fix most anything on a machine and now we all need some help.  Sure they go down but it's the "now what?!" That makes it feel so bad. 

It wasn't all that different in the early days of mechanized farming. Those Moguls, 10-20s, and Regulars may as well have run off fairy pixie dust as far as most farmers were concerned. Carburetor problem? I dunno. Fiddle with it until it's really broken and then call out the dealer mechanic to look at it.

Just think how many people think that about a reasonably "simple" tractor in this day and age. Knowledge and tools are what it takes. It will come with time. 

[Big Bud guy]

14 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

It wasn't all that different in the early days of mechanized farming. Those Moguls, 10-20s, and Regulars may as well have run off fairy pixie dust as far as most farmers were concerned. Carburetor problem? I dunno. Fiddle with it until it's really broken and then call out the dealer mechanic to look at it.

Just think how many people think that about a reasonably "simple" tractor in this day and age. Knowledge and tools are what it takes. It will come with time. 

You bring up a good point. I noticed in my tractor manuals, the one for the JD R (their first diesel) gives detailed instructions on how to remove injectors and how to service or clean them.  Yet in my manuals for the 80/720/830 they leave that part out and just say “see your dealer”. My guess is JD was getting tired of farmers trying to miss with the injectors in a dirty shack with a dirt floor and substandard tools like what we had back in the day and mucking things up further 

[bkorth]

My son works for a Titan dealer and they had a customer buy a little 40hp tractor with cab and loader, not sure what model but it's a little bugger, anyways it had around a100 hours on it and just died one day and the customer couldn't get it started again. He called the dealer and they ended up hauling it to the shop, it was there for several months and my son said they had replaced and traced  literally everything that has anything to do with starting/running it and it still wouldn't start. The company got involved and just gave the guy a new tractor, Titan bought the tractor from CNH thinking eventually they would get it running.  I  haven't asked for a few months if they got it going or if it has taken up permanent residence in the corner of the shop. Ridiculous. 

[New Englander]

Trouble shooting now requires having the service data, a knowledge of how the system works, the tooling, and the skill. It requires a logical approach, not shotgunning parts. The Pep Boys "mechanics" may get away with throwing a part at your car that their code reader says is broken but on an expensive and complex machine that approach just isn't feasible. 

What ever happened to the Deere "right to repair" lawsuit that was in the news a few years back?

[Binderoid]

There seems to be business in shipping Cats between  '68 - '90 overseas.... machinery brokers leave me cards every couple of years.

The Mid-Easterners don't  want that electronic  junk either.

[acem]

If there's enough demand and profit someone will make or repair the electronics.

There are places that rebuild automotive and other circuit boards, computers, etc. 

Electronics keep getting more capable. It's not hard to build an older compatible component with newer suppliers.

The software is another story. Disassembling code is a chore by hand. Probably is or will be a way to make this easier with specialized AI or other computer software.

Reverse engineering is a thing.

[acem]

Should have known there is disassembling software and all kinds of related stuff. Been quite some time since I've been into that stuff.

Here's a link to some useful info if you want to get started.

https://forum.defcon.org/node/246035

Good new is the patents on all this stuff for 8x00 JDs should be expired so you don't have to worry about going to Club Fed.

Aren't you fairly close to Dt Leavenworth @Dirt_Floor_Poor

[Illini986]

24 minutes ago, acem said:

If there's enough demand and profit someone will make or repair the electronics.

There are places that rebuild automotive and other circuit boards, computers, etc. 

Electronics keep getting more capable. It's not hard to build an older compatible component with newer suppliers.

The software is another story. Disassembling code is a chore by hand. Probably is or will be a way to make this easier with specialized AI or other computer software.

Reverse engineering is a thing.

The company across the street from my plant started rebuilding boards and other electronic components a couple years ago for a handful of companies. They've been supplying new circuit boards and such for various OEMs for over 25 years. 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

1 hour ago, acem said:

Should have known there is disassembling software and all kinds of related stuff. Been quite some time since I've been into that stuff.

Here's a link to some useful info if you want to get started.

https://forum.defcon.org/node/246035

Good new is the patents on all this stuff for 8x00 JDs should be expired so you don't have to worry about going to Club Fed.

Aren't you fairly close to Dt Leavenworth @Dirt_Floor_Poor

Yes, I’m 20 miles from there.