Disc mower education

[chevenstein]

I'm in the market for a 7 or 8 foot fully mounted disc mower. I've owned haybines and discbines (rubber roller condtioners) and used flail conditioners, but never a standalone disc mower. Are these the potential nightmare of chewed up gear boxes that a mower conditioner can be? If I were wanting one to cut a few acres of hobby hay and keep my roadside banks mowed, what should I be looking for? This would go on my 706.

[TroyDairy]

I have never seen a sicklebar mower in my 52 years here.  80s we had Vicon disc/roller mower.

Look who has dealership near.  Just in case.  You def get what you pay for.  Wash after season and then let run for 5 10m so dry bearings out etc.  Change oil 1x a year.  Cheap insurance and normal recommended deal.  They do such a better job...will lay nice and flat.  We prefer rollers if you want crimping. We grow heavy grass here.  Not sure why gear box issues...never did one on my Agcos.  Make sure clutches are free and clean.  Too much hp is 90% of the fails of mowers imho.  A 706 on a 8ft be perfect 

[mmi]

For Hay you will want "condition" option .....Dont believe that is offered in a 3pt or < 9'

I prefer DB + flails vs 2 rubbed chevron rolls adjustable , but we make 95% baleage .

15 yrs ago gear boxs were an issue, 

last I looked ALL the mid priced units  were running PODS to drive the knives .EVERYTHING below the gear box is considered consumable wear parts.

you replace every piece +- 500hrs + each shock load.

Kuhn and upper end use different gearing and last 800 hr+ but they all have "$$$$ consumables"

 

https://www.kuhn-usa.com/hay-forage/mowers/disc-mowers/mounted-mowers

[Shell1066]

Some things to look at after repairing several brands of hay mowers for customers. Some brands have a wear clutch under each turtle and some don't. Easier to pull just that turtle and related parts to replace. Some brands have separate oil compartments under each turtle versus the whole bar being one complete oil compartment. The ones with separate compartments, if you have a bearing failure, contain the failure to that compartment instead of contaminating the whole cutter bar. Way easier to clean and rebuild if their separate.  Just rebuilt a Case mower conditioner for a guy. Had to replace half the bearings and gears in the cutter bar because the routine spring maintenance wasn't done. 5000 dollars later it was fixed. Can't stress it enough. Do the spring maintenance even if your late into the field!!! You'll thank yourself later.

[TN Hillbilly]

Lot of folks running Kuhn around here, in that size. Seems like model for the medium duty 8' is a GMD-240, maybe? Cousin has 2 of that size, likes them. We have a very good dealer, probably 2 hrs from you. Many neighbors running 6 or 7 disc Kuhn mowers. They seem to stick around.

Starting to see a few Kubota mowers. I don't know anything about them.

You going new or used? Used disc mowers are a big question mark, unless you know the source and history...

[acem]

Yes. Old disk mowers are a potential crap shoot of chewed up gearboxes.

3 pt disk mowers are the norm here conditioners are usually not needed. Our heat drys it quickly. Previously sickle mowers were the norm.

Old disk mowers are a crap shoot. Most have problems. Some are gearbed and others are shaft drive. 

Gearbed has fewer parts and is simpler. However damage to one part can spread shavings and debris throughout the entire gearcase with the related issues. The long gearcase can be damaged and is difficult to repair.

Shaft drive has more parts to wear. They have individual gearboxes for each cutter.  On most mowers a shaft connects the driving gearbox to the first cutter gearbox. Then more short shafts go between cutter gearboxes. One long shaft goes through the entire mower on some older mowers. These separate gearboxes keep debris contained within each gearbox.

It's actually easier and cheaper to completely rebuild a NH451 sickle mower. But of course they don't cut as well.

For straight mowers, I am running a New Idea 5409 disk mower and a NH451 sickle mower. I have parts machines for both. Parts machines are a good thing with older equipment...

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

“Here” I don’t think disc mowers are a good idea for hobby use unless you don’t care if you make money. They are better in every way, but are always more expensive to have. Initial purchase price, maintenance, etc. is always higher. 

[chevenstein]

Thanks guys, this is helpful. I should have made it clearer then I'm very familiar with tow behind discbines that have rollers or flails and the woes one can run into with those setups, but I didn't really understand that the fully mounted machines are made of the same components. This is a hobby for me now, not a business, so I'm looking for the lest costly options which of course might mean the most headache. Knowing there are a lot of Kuhn machines around is helpful (are the JD machines a rebranded Kuhn?).

On the cost of the hobby, well, it's not fun if your machinery is broken all the time (working on the 706 to do the Cummins swap was fun; working on a trashed auction disc mower when I've got a few days of nice weather is not fun), so that's the balancing act I'm trying to accomplish now.

[Gearclash]

NOT a New Holland or CIH labeled equivalent.  Kuhn seems to hold up way better. 

[junkandcattle]

I do like my Hesston. I bought it used with a worn keyway at gearbox input. I ran it that way until I had a bearing go out and sent the remains through the gearbox.  1200 in parts. Still running good with only normal maintenance, blades and bolts, oil level checks are a pain but that is every 500 acres 

[jnbru]

I have 2 Vicon cm2400 both bought at equipment auctions 1 was complete and other in pile of parts.  Both are working now. The bar box was cracked pretty bad and needed a lot welding. That being said they cut great and are some of noisiest gear boxes ever.  every head had be welded up around blade bolt nuts and skid plates and one of stiffer bars had to have to bottom replaced.  Their is a lot wear items.  They really do need oil changed yearly and kept topped off during the year.  Vicon was bought out by Kubota so parts want be round for ever.  That being said I have less the 4k in both together with a lot welding and time with few pricey parts... 

[TroyDairy]

8 hours ago, TN Hillbilly said:

Lot of folks running Kuhn around here, in that size. Seems like model for the medium duty 8' is a GMD-240, maybe? Cousin has 2 of that size, likes them. We have a very good dealer, probably 2 hrs from you. Many neighbors running 6 or 7 disc Kuhn mowers. They seem to stick around.

Starting to see a few Kubota mowers. I don't know anything about them.

You going new or used? Used disc mowers are a big question mark, unless you know the source and history...

Fwiw  Kubota are Kneverland (they bought them 5 6 years ago) and they were respected brand.  Long time design

[MT Matt]

I think some of the older JD disk mowers are Kuhn. My neighbor has three JD 9’ mowers. All three look the same but all three have slight variations that made them incompatible. The last one he got was just a new cutter bar and he thought he could swap the mounts. Nope, nothing fit and he ended up taking it to a local fab shop. The guy was able to piece together a mount.

They take a lot of maintenance which is not a strong suit of my friend. Worked for him for a long time but when they crapped out, it ate everything. 

[TroyDairy]

Also for the acres ypur speaking of i ca  ot see a wear issue.  My hesston/agco have 10000s of acres on with way to much HP before we retired them.  Got Sp model now of same head and am happy.

Also maintain them is key key.  Oil is cheap and if its leaking...FIX it.  My dad use dto say sickles we're way more maintenance. I really don't see what you guys are talking about about high maintenance you change the oil and grease them in the spring and then grease them every cutting we do six to seven cuttings a year of heavy grass I don't see how greasing something's high maintenance

[MT Matt]

When you do nothing but hook up to it and check the oil once, that’s not much maintenance. Also, I’d say around here with such dry ground most of the season, skid shoes wear quickly. My friend didn’t believe in changing or fixing things before they became a problem. But by then it was past being a fixable problem.  I’ve seen his turtles ground down to nothing because the skid shoes were gone long before that. 

[stronger800]

About 30 years worth of discbines here, red, and now orange.  Keep them greased, Change oil….and cover ground really fast. Any type of hay. In the rain if you want to. 

[Big Bud guy]

37 minutes ago, TroyDairy said:

Also for the acres ypur speaking of i ca  ot see a wear issue.  My hesston/agco have 10000s of acres on with way to much HP before we retired them.  Got Sp model now of same head and am happy.

Also maintain them is key key.  Oil is cheap and if its leaking...FIX it.  My dad use dto say sickles we're way more maintenance. I really don't see what you guys are talking about about high maintenance you change the oil and grease them in the spring and then grease them every cutting we do six to seven cuttings a year of heavy grass I don't see how greasing something's high maintenance

I have both a sickle and a discbine mowers.  The sickle is more maintenance to me without a doubt. 

[495man]

I've run 3pt disc mower for years now.   Change oil annually and blades as needed. Basic service. 

I had a New Holland, had no issues with it, I currently run a 9' Kubota DM series, 3 blades per disc, automatic reset breakaway. 

Most disc mowers will state not to road side mow with them since all the oil typically running to the outer end of the bar when downhill. 

[acem]

Almost everyone in this part of Arkansas, except me, has an abundance of rock. A friend says he farms rocks in his pastures. They grow fast!

Very bad things happen when a disk mower finds a good sized rock. It happens alot around here. 

If you're lucky they break the turtle and shaft off the top. On gearbed mowers they often rip the top of the gearcase. On shaft drive they often twist/break shafts. 

Disk mowers never see 10,000 acres round here. 

Every consignment auction has several 'project' disk mowers. Dealers take them in on trade and dump them at auctions.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

50 minutes ago, acem said:

Almost everyone in this part of Arkansas, except me, has an abundance of rock. A friend says he farms rocks in his pastures. They grow fast!

Very bad things happen when a disk mower finds a good sized rock. It happens alot around here. 

If you're lucky they break the turtle and shaft off the top. On gearbed mowers they often rip the top of the gearcase. On shaft drive they often twist/break shafts. 

Disk mowers never see 10,000 acres round here. 

Every consignment auction has several 'project' disk mowers. Dealers take them in on trade and dump them at auctions.

The shear hubs are a very good deal. They can tear up adjacent discs when they shear because it will then be out of time. Our first NH disc mower did not have them.