24 volt questions

[mader656]

Should a 24v solenoid operate off 12 volts?

My ihi 45c crawler wont turn the brakes off. All the electronics say 24v but it had one battery when i got it whick makes me think it was converted? How would  i tell? The new motors computer is 12v 

Im thinking i could put 2 batteries in series to run 24v side but put the computer and 12 side on ine of them... or is there a better way?

[Farmall 1466]

It could work and if it does so without problems, you will never ever have to replace it as it will not wear since it draws on much less power (25% of power compared to 24v). However, since it draws on only 25% of power, there is a chance of the solenoid not opening fully or not at all. It definitely would not harm the solenoid if you try to power it with 12v.

[cobfly]

You might have a series/parallel switch and should have 2 batteries. But what do I know. Tag on starter should tell the tale.

[int 504]

Check starter and alternator tags for voltage. I run some 12v on my 24 volt military truck. I use the ground side battery for the 12v. It works but I charge the battery I use for 12volt after every storm because the electric hyd pump is 12 volt and the higher half gets charged but the lower not completely. It's also cheaper than just letting the truck run.

[mader656]

Does the switch ground the solenoid to complete the circut?

[mader656]

1 hour ago, cobfly said:

You might have a series/parallel switch and should have 2 batteries. But what do I know. Tag on starter should tell the tale.

No starter.to check. 

[12_Guy]

It appears to me that the switch grounds either the solenoid or the light depending upon the position of the switch. Or possibly neither if it has three positions: solenoid, off, light. 

[New Englander]

You may try a step up converter 12VDC-24VDC. Web search time, maybe Ebay or Amazon?

[vtfireman85]

Any time I have tried pulling 12v off of a bigger system, in my case it was off grid application, I found i was getting uneven charging among the batteries, it worked for a while, but ultimately brought the whole system down. The solution was a second charge controller in parallel, not sure what that might look like on your crawler short of adding an alternator or doing as @New Englander

[Matt Kirsch]

What do you mean, "no starter?" How do you get the engine to run?

[iowaboy1965]

Pony motor? 🤷‍♂️

[mader656]

2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

What do you mean, "no starter?" How do you get the engine to run?

Meaning there was no starter that came with the windowed block that came in the bed of the machine. The new motor is 12v.

[Matt Kirsch]

Makes sense. Has it ever moved?

My first instinct would be to isolate the solenoid and apply 24V directly to it to see if it would actuate.

[td9inidaho]

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Makes sense. Has it ever moved?

My first instinct would be to isolate the solenoid and apply 24V directly to it to see if it would actuate.

Will 24 volts fry that solenoid if by chance it is 12?  I had to replace a solenoid on a komatsu starter recently, it was 24 specific. 24 should kick a 12 much harder, but will it last?  Back in the day, people would do that with 6 volt starters, use a 12 volt battery, turns over way faster, but will burn out as fast if not faster. That's what I've heard anyhow 

[Matt Kirsch]

Never had a problem with "6-volt" solenoids on 12 Volts. That's how Dad's Super M was for a very long time. He had converted it to use a generic Ford type solenoid instead of the push button a very long time ago, and then switched it over to 12 Volts. He was replacing the solenoid annually on 6 Volts, but I can't recall him ever having a problem after the 12V conversion. 

I can't imagine a momentary contact with 24V would harm it if it's a 12V. Actually, I'd start with 12V first then try 24... that is, if I couldn't find the specs on the solenoid.

[New Englander]

If I understand it the machine was originally 24 volt but now has a computer that's 12, so that's the governing item. The only issue is the brake solenoid won't release with only 12 volts applied therefor either the solenoid needs to be replaced with a 12 volt unit or the voltage needs to be stepped up to 24 to release it.

Have I stated the issue correctly? Let's not confuse the issue. Yes, 6 volt starters work fine on 12 volts. They're an intermittent duty series wound motor. The an apples to bananas comparison to this issue. 24 volts applied to 12 volt engine computer will likely fry it so the issue is simply to get the brakes off, run the engine on 12 as designed, and carry on. Adding another battery in series and alternator to center tap 12 for the brakes is looking like the hard way unless I read the original post wrong.

[int 504]

24v on 12v usually lets smoke out. 12v on 24v probably won't work well if at all. As stated above two solutions: replace solenoid with 12v solenoid probably easiest or find a transformer to step 12v up to 24v

[mader656]

Pulled solenoid. 12v makes it move just not strong enough to hold against hydraulics.

There is a whole bunch of 24v stuff might be easier to step down to 12 for the computer. And get a 24 v starter.

[bitty]

52 minutes ago, mader656 said:

Pulled solenoid. 12v makes it move just not strong enough to hold against hydraulics.

There is a whole bunch of 24v stuff might be easier to step down to 12 for the computer. And get a 24 v starter.

 that's what I would try 

[dale560]

Going back to my converting JD 4020s to twelve volt or making them. Straight 24 volt and running accessories off of 12. A delco big starter solenoid will work on a 24 volt if it is 12 volt. The only thing is most solenoids need the kick in voltage to be the same as operating voltage. Let’s say you have it controlling 24 volt power and have a 12 volt switched supply that won’t activate a solenoid. 

Most newer solenoids and stuff are made to work on 12 to 18 or 20 volts. As mentioned I would isolate it and try to operate it at twelve or 24 volts. 

[int 504]

15 hours ago, bitty said:

 that's what I would try 

x2

[searcyfarms]

I would hv a 12 v isolated portion and 24v portion unless you know what you are doing and from the age and parts availibility you dont want to be frying things

[bitty]

Our Cat 235 trackhoe had the engine swapped out of a generator... We had to add a 12 volt fuel pump to it also. We isolated the one battery to the pump. It is an extra strain on that battery. I think it would possibly be fine to add a small trickle charger to that battery and run it off a little solar panel? It seems to be lower than the other battery after charging