Rust eating mixture

[New Englander]

4 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

Any other ideas?

Rosebud tip until it looks like the sun if you can't find a hydraulic kingpin press. It's a big heat sink so the bigger the tip the better.  I've never had much luck with any penetrant if there wasn't at least some movement.

[Reichow7120]

Any other ideas how to get this thing out? 

I had another unsucessful round with it this afternoon. Heat, reef on it with a 36 inch pipe wrench and a 3 foot cheater on the end of that. Air hammered it, sledge hammer it where mushrooming wouldn't be a issue. Rinse and repeat over again. Had the pipe where I was heating it to the point where it could start to melt. Not everywhere at the same time though. Working with what I have here. Cant get that thing to budge a inch.

Cant rent a kingpin press around here so thats off. Im not really keen on cutting the pipe unless i have a replacement one i can put in it's place. I had a replacement. It would be gone. 

So anyone else have any ideas on freeing it?

[smfarms]

Rosebud. Lots of heat. Can’t just get a quarter size area need the whole thing nice and bright orange 

[Reichow7120]

28 minutes ago, smfarms said:

Rosebud. Lots of heat. Can’t just get a quarter size area need the whole thing nice and bright orange 

Been trying. Hasn't worked yet and you get one spot hot and move it. You loose the other spot. Kinda a loosing endevor. 

[acem]

Sometimes they get really grown together

Can you cool the inner shaft while you heat the tube/pipe?

 

[sandhiller]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:18 PM, TN Hillbilly said:

The last stuck wagon kingpin I did (similar story - "Here's a running gear you can have to haul it away.") we tried different penetrating solutions over several weeks. Nothing worked til we got out the torch and a bfh (Big Friendly Hammer).

When I lived in Holt Co, we had an old Black Smith, Frank Noffke.

He had an 8# sledge hammer head on a short handle

We called it the BFH or Big "Frank" Hammer😉  🤣

[sandhiller]

2 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

Any other ideas how to get this thing out? 

I had another unsucessful round with it this afternoon. Heat, reef on it with a 36 inch pipe wrench and a 3 foot cheater on the end of that. Air hammered it, sledge hammer it where mushrooming wouldn't be a issue. Rinse and repeat over again. Had the pipe where I was heating it to the point where it could start to melt. Not everywhere at the same time though. Working with what I have here. Cant get that thing to budge a inch.

Cant rent a kingpin press around here so thats off. Im not really keen on cutting the pipe unless i have a replacement one i can put in it's place. I had a replacement. It would be gone. 

So anyone else have any ideas on freeing it?

Can you set it up with a comealong or something on the end of your cheater and pipe wrench to allow you to keep constant pressure on it?

[Gearclash]

Couple ideas for you.

1) weld a frame around the end of the axle so as to allow a 20 ton stubby bottle jack to be used as a press directly on the end of the king pin.  I would be inclined to flip the gear over so the base of the bottle jack is on the temporary frame and the end of the ram is against the end of the kingpin.  Otherwise there needs to be a good pad under the jack so it doesn’t destroy its own base pressing against the kingpin.  Plus use heat.  

2) find a piece of sacrificial steel shaft that can be attached to the end of the kingpin, and find a 16 pound sledge hammer to beat on the sacrificial shaft.  I have found that many things that won’t move otherwise start thinking differently when a 16 pounder hits them.

[New Englander]

At this point without a press and rosebud heat isn't enough then I'd probably be inclined to split it as others have suggested. Either with a wiz wheel/grinder or a torch if you're comfortable with it. As a kid doing exhaust system work I discovered I could slit a pipe inside or outside another easily without damaging what I didn't want to cut when there was a rust layer between them. Either way I'm pretty sure that once split the pin will come out and you can clean everything up and weld it back together.

[supermechanic]

17 minutes ago, New Englander said:

At this point without a press and rosebud heat isn't enough then I'd probably be inclined to split it as others have suggested. Either with a wiz wheel/grinder or a torch if you're comfortable with it. As a kid doing exhaust system work I discovered I could slit a pipe inside or outside another easily without damaging what I didn't want to cut when there was a rust layer between them. Either way I'm pretty sure that once split the pin will come out and you can clean everything up and weld it back together.

What he said.

[int 504]

2 hours ago, supermechanic said:

What he said.

Alternative is really solid support under the axle housing, weed burner for heat, sacrificial pin just under the diameter of the king pin with a piece of rod welded to it for a handle and a big hammer 12lbs minimum and somebody who is used to swinging one really hard. This method takes two people or three perhaps. Many years ago I worked with some men who were in their 60's that had started in the quarries at 13 or so breaking rocks with a hammer. I've never seen anyone since who could swing a sledge like they could.

[New Englander]

28 minutes ago, int 504 said:

weed burner for heat

Can a weed burner get it glowing red? Without OXY it doesn't seem like it could. I've got a weed burner but never tried to heat anything with it.

[Ian Beale]

FWIW - an LPG gas branding furnace turned on its side does a dandy job of melting bearing metal.  Could you use the burner assembly from one of those?

[supermechanic]

3 hours ago, int 504 said:

Alternative is really solid support under the axle housing, weed burner for heat, sacrificial pin just under the diameter of the king pin with a piece of rod welded to it for a handle and a big hammer 12lbs minimum and somebody who is used to swinging one really hard. This method takes two people or three perhaps. Many years ago I worked with some men who were in their 60's that had started in the quarries at 13 or so breaking rocks with a hammer. I've never seen anyone since who could swing a sledge like they could.

I have a 20-pound sledge in my shop.

 I call it the metal mover.

 Most of the time it just stands in the corner.

 Other times it makes my back hurt just by looking at it.

[Reichow7120]

4 hours ago, Ian Beale said:

FWIW - an LPG gas branding furnace turned on its side does a dandy job of melting bearing metal.  Could you use the burner assembly from one of those?

Dont have one

[Reichow7120]

Just irratating as -ell. Shouldn't be this hard of a job to get loose.

But should have figured. Every other job that shouldn't be a pain has turned into one lately.

Just not keen splits the tube if I didn't have to. My luck and experience is if I screw that up. Its never quite right again. Also concerned when I weld it, if don't have it quite right I don't have a real easy way to grind it true in the middle. 

[Reichow7120]

Round 3 this afternoon yielded a broken Sledgehammer handle, empty accetalyne tank, broken air chisel corner, broke a chunk out of the hub. And that was with me splitting the tube like I wasn't crazy doing. 

Good news. It budged slightly. Only just less than 9 inches to go to get it out. 

[int 504]

Is there anything that holds the pin in the tube other than rust? If you could get a replacement pin maybe weld a big nut to it and try to turn with a big air wrench.

[Reichow7120]

24 minutes ago, int 504 said:

Is there anything that holds the pin in the tube other than rust? If you could get a replacement pin maybe weld a big nut to it and try to turn with a big air wrench.

Nothing. Bolt and washer on top

[supermechanic]

Now that it moves slightly, get a L_O_N_G piece of pipe, slip it over the axle stub,& move it back and forth to get the penetrating oil worked in.

[New Englander]

Years ago I was trying to get an old John Deere spline axle hub to move. Mid winter unheated garage  actually got quite warm I used so much heat. When I finally got it off the axle had big pits with corresponding pits in the hub where scale had locked it in. In retrospect rather than a bottle of acetylene and oxygen, portapower, jacks, and hours of work I should have just cut it off and got another but there was no way of knowing. Hub on the other side responded with heat and a jack pushing it off.

Splitting it like you have is obviously the solution as you have it on the run now. It's one of those "if I knew it was gonna be this bad I'd have slit it right away" but there's no way of knowing. Too bad there's no Xray vision.

[560Dennis]

Purple power and boiling water 

[hardtail]

Once you get it apart if your concerned about getting weld in the bore and accessing to get back to size, put a copper pipe inside closest size to bore diameter if it's undersized place it tight against the gap your welding, we used to use brass often but not sure you have access to it. You might even wrap the original pin with brass shim stock sheet around the original pin loosely in place while you weld it back up.

[New Englander]

5 hours ago, hardtail said:

Once you get it apart if your concerned about getting weld in the bore and accessing to get back to size, put a copper pipe inside closest size to bore diameter if it's undersized place it tight against the gap your welding, we used to use brass often but not sure you have access to it. You might even wrap the original pin with brass shim stock sheet around the original pin loosely in place while you weld it back up.

I've got a couple of pieces of copper buss bar I use to backup for that exact purpose. Good call.

[Diesel Doctor]

This guy has been working with rust for over 40 years.

A great video on what he has found.

He is a true master of his craft!