300 vs super m

[acem]

Here's the post.  Apparently my mind is slipping, it was a 350.

But in any case it sounds relevant to his questions.  

 

[sandhiller]

3 hours ago, Ihfan4life said:

That looks mighty close to hitting your head when in transport 

I can see where you get that looking at the pic

Maybe it's angle or something but I never felt it was uncomfortably close to my "bad idea generator"................

 

[MacAR]

I have a 300, its great for smaller jobs like raking/tedding/etc. I also have a 450, it outdoes the 300 2 to 1 on everything, with half again fuel use. In your shoes I'd buy the 300 and keep the SM, if that's an option. 

[Matt Kirsch]

9 hours ago, acem said:

Here's the post.  Apparently my mind is slipping, it was a 350.

But in any case it sounds relevant to his questions.  

s

The answer is "Maybe." New equipment is designed for modern tractors with 2500-3000PSI hydraulic systems. They use small diameter custom length cylinders so it's not like you can go out and buy a 4" cylinder at the local farm supply. 

If the SM is a stage 1 belly pump tractor it only has a 750-800PSI hydraulic system so it has no chance. The live pumps on a stage 2 and 300 produce 1500PSI which MIGHT be enough for lighter haying equipment.

[drglinski]

That's a bold trade IMO. 

[pt756]

good evening that was our 350, funny part it would lift up the 470 16 foot disc but not that tedder, anyway a local guy bought it, we  have the same milkman so I hear daily reports, its on his grain drill now, getting good use out of it, we did end up with the 856 that I have asked a lot of questions about, its being used this spring and so far so good, 

[Lazy WP]

I guess I thought all of the Super series had live hydraulics? I know I used to hear of guys who put a bigger distributor pump on and would shear a key or break a gear in the valve train?

[Lazy WP]

11 hours ago, pt756 said:

good evening that was our 350, funny part it would lift up the 470 16 foot disc but not that tedder, anyway a local guy bought it, we  have the same milkman so I hear daily reports, its on his grain drill now, getting good use out of it, we did end up with the 856 that I have asked a lot of questions about, its being used this spring and so far so good, 

I had an 8 wheel rake much like @sandhiller pictured, on a cart, and the only 2 tractors I had that would lift it was either my 7045 or 7020 Allis. Not very handy when most of my hay tractors were either letter series Cases or a 450 diesel. 

[Chester5732]

My 450 barely folds my 8 wheel carted rake.  

[Reichow7120]

2 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

I guess I thought all of the Super series had live hydraulics? I know I used to hear of guys who put a bigger distributor pump on and would shear a key or break a gear in the valve train?

Different stages had different hydraulics. 

Stage one was still a belly pump, no live hydraulics. 

Stage 2 was live hydraulics. 

All depends on how late in the build run a given tractor is.

[Lazy WP]

9 minutes ago, Reichow7120 said:

Different stages had different hydraulics. 

Stage one was still a belly pump, no live hydraulics. 

Stage 2 was live hydraulics. 

All depends on how late in the build run a given tractor is.

So what is the difference between stage one and a regular M? Learn something new every day. Thanks 

[Reichow7120]

13 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

So what is the difference between stage one and a regular M? Learn something new every day. Thanks 

For the hydraulics the difference between the 2 is the difference between the belly pump and the distributor drive ran pump, and supporting equipment. Battery under the seat is another sign of a stage 2. Hydraulic equipment for the live hydraulics under the tank 

[sandhiller]

6 minutes ago, Reichow7120 said:

For the hydraulics the difference between the 2 is the difference between the belly pump and the distributor drive ran pump, and supporting equipment. Battery under the seat is another sign of a stage 2. Hydraulic equipment for the live hydraulics under the tank 

My SM has battery under tank and dist drive live hyd and ps. 

So.........transition tractor or maybe stage one with live hyd and ps added later?

A lot can happen over 70+ years

[snoshoe]

3 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

So what is the difference between stage one and a regular M? Learn something new every day. Thanks 

Difference  between "super" and M was c281 engine. There were other changes such as disc brakes but I never kept a list.

Well I messed this one up. The super would have been the c264. C281 would have been the four fiddy. Any how engine grew.

Edited May 17 by snoshoe
Correction

[Lazy WP]

59 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

My SM has battery under tank and dist drive live hyd and ps. 

So.........transition tractor or maybe stage one with live hyd and ps added later?

A lot can happen over 70+ years

I have seen more of this version. Again, I am still learning about red tractors, but I guess I thought that the battery under the seat came with the T/A? I know my Super MDT/A were that way. 

[Reichow7120]

1 hour ago, sandhiller said:

My SM has battery under tank and dist drive live hyd and ps. 

So.........transition tractor or maybe stage one with live hyd and ps added later?

A lot can happen over 70+ years

What year?

My personal gut is added later as they are using the belly pump cavity as the resivor instead of the dedicated one under the tank. But like you said 70 some years a lot can happen and unless you know the history since the beginning, who knows 

There's i think a serial number break that in theory would cover it but im not remembering for sure. Have a book in the shop on this but im in a field just finished filling the corn planter ( still planting) and im not driving to the shop to take a look at the moment. 

[Reichow7120]

34 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Difference  between "super" and M was c281 engine. There were other changes such as disc brakes but I never kept a list.

Disc brakes were introduced in the late regular M run. 

 

[MT Matt]

To my knowledge:

very last Ms had disk brakes added because the Super series parts were in the system and ready, must have used up the M parts supply.

Super M stage 1 was 264 engine, disk brakes and faster gears. Belly pump hydraulics like an M

Super M stage 2 had all of stage 1 but the hydraulics were upgraded to the live pump on the dist and reservoir under the tank. Hence the battery under the seat.

Other minor changes too but those were the major differences.

SMTA got the TA obviously. Guess that was stage 3. 

[Reichow7120]

26 minutes ago, MT Matt said:

To my knowledge:

very last Ms had disk brakes added because the Super series parts were in the system and ready, must have used up the M parts supply.

Super M stage 1 was 264 engine, disk brakes and faster gears. Belly pump hydraulics like an M

Super M stage 2 had all of stage 1 but the hydraulics were upgraded to the live pump on the dist and reservoir under the tank. Hence the battery under the seat.

Other minor changes too but those were the major differences.

SMTA got the TA obviously. Guess that was stage 3. 

Yeah and live PTO

[Lazy WP]

Thanks guys!! I never knew most of that!!

[snoshoe]

Well I have already proved how unreliable I can be but I believe most of this was optional. Not all options available at the beginning.  Before the ta. Could have been no hydraulics, belly pump or live when it became available. The TA did not replace all others. You could still buy SM without Ta or live pto.

[Lazy WP]

So where did the diesel come in? I think I know of a straight diesel M? I know of a Super M diesel, and I had a pair of SMTAs that like a fool, I sold for scrap! The one even had a fast hitch 

[MacAR]

15 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Well I have already proved how unreliable I can be but I believe most of this was optional. Not all options available at the beginning.  Before the ta. Could have been no hydraulics, belly pump or live when it became available. The TA did not replace all others. You could still buy SM without Ta or live pto.

Correct. Dad's SMTA was factory non-ta by the serial plate. It did have LPTO and live hydraulics however. 

[lotsaIHCs]

5 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

So where did the diesel come in? I think I know of a straight diesel M? I know of a Super M diesel, and I had a pair of SMTAs that like a fool, I sold for scrap! The one even had a fast hitch 

M diesel was offered from 1941 on up. Scrapped 2 SMTA? Dang, I sold 1 SMTA grill probably for more than the 2 tractors brought for scrap!

[Powered by IH]

It gets a little messy to explain sometimes...

The Super M could be had with no hydraulics, PTO, TA, etc. They were all options.

Super MD was in production the whole time, nothing super special about those.

Super M-TA's were only produced in 1954, hence making them more collectible because roughly just 23,000 were made. Fast Hitch was an option on that model, making it even rarer. 

Super M-TA Diesels were even rarer because just under 3,000 were made. With a Fast Hitch and IPTO those tractors are worth really big money.

Let's see, what else can I add here? Maybe we should start a new thread? 😆 This one is just a touch off topic.