1086 ran away on me today

[pete23]

What usually happens on that model is the check valve in the elbow of return on back side of the pump comes apart and gets back inside of the pump. Then it lays there until control sleeve is moved way up, calling for fuel and it finds it way under control sleeve and blocks it from returning to low fuel supply.  Engine normally runs wide open until it blows.  One I repaired the connecting rod came out the side and knocked the pump off the engine so engine stopped. 

That elbow should have been replaced over 40 years ago with a orfice elbow. Might be something else but not very likely as the pump have over speeding governor type linkage protection in the design.

Pete 23

[Injpumped]

15 hours ago, Cattech said:

20 years ago, had a skid steer come in with the turbo pushing oil. A fellow tech idles it in to wash out the engine bay, knowing it was close to taking off. He shut the key off and the engine slowed, but didn't stop.... then started to build RPM in a cloud of oily smoke. Panic set in, Chris jumped out of the cab and ran like four laps around the machine flapping his arms - not sure what he was thinking. I opened the rear door, popped the fuel filter off, which didn't slow it down a bit... then pulled the air filter out with intention of spinning it around, using the outer end to block the air. In my haste I dropped the filters and they rolled under the machine. For some dumb reason, I stuck my hand in the back of the AF housing and made a fist in the inlet tube, which did manage to snuff it. Should have just let it go, it got a new engine under warranty anyway.

Lucked out on the JD 3010 a couple months ago. A neighbor was interested in buying the tractor, it has been sitting with little use since Dad passed. I went out to get it running and air up the tires. It fired up with my jump pack.... RPMs started climbing. It hit about 3000 when I pulled the fuel shutoff knob - & luckily it shut down. Gave it a few minutes, thought I'd try one more time, it fired and seemed to run OK for about a minute - then heard/felt a snap and it died. Either the pump or the distributor head seized, snapped the shaft off. 

the head likely did seize on the 3010, and now made it an extremely expensive repair lol! I know it's not practical, but if people would take the pump off and clean it up before trying to start it, it can likely be saved, but once seized, it gets pricey fast lol! Us pump shops are running out of good used heads because everyone keeps seizing them with this junk fuel we now have. 

[Injpumped]

15 hours ago, Cattech said:

20 years ago, had a skid steer come in with the turbo pushing oil. A fellow tech idles it in to wash out the engine bay, knowing it was close to taking off. He shut the key off and the engine slowed, but didn't stop.... then started to build RPM in a cloud of oily smoke. Panic set in, Chris jumped out of the cab and ran like four laps around the machine flapping his arms - not sure what he was thinking. I opened the rear door, popped the fuel filter off, which didn't slow it down a bit... then pulled the air filter out with intention of spinning it around, using the outer end to block the air. In my haste I dropped the filters and they rolled under the machine. For some dumb reason, I stuck my hand in the back of the AF housing and made a fist in the inlet tube, which did manage to snuff it. Should have just let it go, it got a new engine under warranty anyway.

Lucked out on the JD 3010 a couple months ago. A neighbor was interested in buying the tractor, it has been sitting with little use since Dad passed. I went out to get it running and air up the tires. It fired up with my jump pack.... RPMs started climbing. It hit about 3000 when I pulled the fuel shutoff knob - & luckily it shut down. Gave it a few minutes, thought I'd try one more time, it fired and seemed to run OK for about a minute - then heard/felt a snap and it died. Either the pump or the distributor head seized, snapped the shaft off. 

delete double post

[Cattech]

1 hour ago, Injpumped said:

the head likely did seize on the 3010, and now made it an extremely expensive repair lol! I know it's not practical, but if people would take the pump off and clean it up before trying to start it, it can likely be saved, but once seized, it gets pricey fast lol! Us pump shops are running out of good used heads because everyone keeps seizing them with this junk fuel we now have. 

Yeah, $2100 is rather pricey for a Roosa rebuild.

The crap fuel may not be fully to blame in this case. When dad wanted to replace the old upright canister fuel filter, I grabbed an extra fuel filter base from work that holds a Cat 1R0750 filter. The Cat filter is a 2 micron rating, but has no water separating capacity. It was fine back when the tractor was in regular use, but it sat with a 1/4 tank of fuel through 2 summers and winters. There's probably quite a bit of condensation in the bottom of the tank, and I didn't do anything to address the possibility. 

[acem]

I thought heads and all are available for rosa master pumps???

[Injpumped]

New heads are available, they are expensive though. New heads generally run around 1500, add to the typical price to rebuild the pump of about 1000-1200, it gets really expensive.

[acem]

11 hours ago, Injpumped said:

New heads are available, they are expensive though. New heads generally run around 1500, add to the typical price to rebuild the pump of about 1000-1200, it gets really expensive.

At least they are available. 

[Tmtbob]

I lost my turbo in my Pete last year and it started pushing oil on my first experience with a runaway.  I was a little past a fuel stop on a 4 lane divided highway. Idled through a crossover and was headed back to get it off the road. It happened 3 times before I got it out of traffic. I know I was an idiot for starting it up after it shut off but the first two times it started to go I was in the middle of my turn to get off highway 81 and the 2nd I was turning in the fuel stop and blocking the drive. I was quick with the key and caught it early both times but the third time I was in the parking lot and it didn’t shut off. I did get it in gear and held the brake to shut it off the last time. I got lucky cause all I had to do was throw a turbo on it and clean out the intercooler. 
 

I haven’t had much of a chance to mess with this one yet cause I been getting my challenger tractor that I bought months ago ready to go. I wasn’t intending to run it yet but it’s needed now. 

[cumminstinkerer]

On 7/3/2025 at 6:13 PM, Binderoid said:

Oh, come on....jack Daniels story  if I ever heard one....

NO SIR! it really did had two classes worth of guys in there, it was a scary SOB, it was just on stand too so nothing attached to it, who knows how many times that blower had been off and apart and hadn't had new seals installed, it was just used as a trainer per say

[FarmerFixEmUp]

Good to see you here Pete! 

[Binderoid]

19 hours ago, cumminstinkerer said:

NO SIR! it really did had two classes worth of guys in there, it was a scary SOB, it was just on stand too so nothing attached to it, who knows how many times that blower had been off and apart and hadn't had new seals installed, it was just used as a trainer per say

If the vacuum  was severe  enough to turn those seals over, which I doubt, all the vacuum is between the centerline of the  blower and the emergency shutdown.  

Since the long block by itself is incapable  of  producing vacuum,  how did the "oil and air" get into cylinders?

It would  have to have been blown in... when  the inlet to the blower is  plugged, the blower can't blow. 

Hold your  hand over the hose on your shop vac and see how much air comes out the exhaust. 

[cumminstinkerer]

I do agree with you, cant really answer how or why, that was the only obvious thing we were able to find wrong, i don't know if it ever got torn down again after that, I know we were all filling pants as it was speeding up with the clipboard over it!

[Tmtbob]

Finally getting a chance to tear into my 1086 and get it going again. I’m getting desperate and need my loader tractor back. 
 

I found the head has gotta come off because I can’t spin it a full turn, so a chunk of turbo is on one of the pistons. Where is a good place to get a top end gasket kit from. Are the ones from ASAP any good. I don’t see who the manufacturer is on those. Redrunrite also has a kit I think is oem. Anyone have a preference. 

[bitty]

On 7/2/2025 at 9:08 AM, acem said:

If a tractor is in gear when it runs away you can sometimes kill it with the brakes. 

Only with any other engine than IH, they have too much torque to stall with the brakes 

[bitty]

8 minutes ago, Tmtbob said:

Finally getting a chance to tear into my 1086 and get it going again. I’m getting desperate and need my loader tractor back. 
 

I found the head has gotta come off because I can’t spin it a full turn, so a chunk of turbo is on one of the pistons. Where is a good place to get a top end gasket kit from. Are the ones from ASAP any good. I don’t see who the manufacturer is on those. Redrunrite also has a kit I think is oem. Anyone have a preference. 

Call Jessie at restoration Tractor Sales in Lancaster PA. He has the best kits available for the IH 400 series engine 

[acem]

Most likely you will need a complete rebuild kit.

If you just need gaskets Felpro (FP Diesel) are pretty good.

 

[Tmtbob]

2 hours ago, acem said:

Most likely you will need a complete rebuild kit.

If you just need gaskets Felpro (FP Diesel) are pretty good.

 

I was expecting the same but I got the head off and other than a little top end piston damage I’m not seeing much wrong with it. Head looks ok to but I’ll get a chance to look closer at it tomorrow. 

[Diesel Doctor]

10 hours ago, Tmtbob said:

I was expecting the same but I got the head off and other than a little top end piston damage I’m not seeing much wrong with it. Head looks ok to but I’ll get a chance to look closer at it tomorrow. 

Lucky $hit?

[Tmtbob]

11 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

Lucky $hit?

It appears I was on this deal so far

[Tmtbob]

Decided to go a little deeper on the repair on this and just now got all the parts gathered to put it back together. 
 

I went with rods and mains, pistons, and obviously a turbo. I got my injectors and fuel pump back from the injection shop and the head back yesterday.  Everything on the bottom side is done except for the oil pan, head is torqued down and I was getting injectors ready but I saw something in the head gasket kit. Going through the gaskets  I notice 12 neoprene or plastic seals I can’t figure out where they go. I don’t remember them when I broke it down. My manuals don’t have anything in them on this. Don’t want to get any deeper until I figure out what I’m looking at in case I have to back up. Does anyone have an idea at what I’m looking at

[CIHTECH]

28 minutes ago, Tmtbob said:

 I notice 12 neoprene or plastic seals

Valve stem seals? 

[Tmtbob]

Guess I could have posted a pic of them. @CIHTECH

[snoshoe]

They snap into the bottom of the rotators

 

[Tmtbob]

26 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

They snap into the bottom of the rotators

 

Thank you. I’m not gonna worry about them then

[Powered by IH]

On 7/8/2025 at 6:19 AM, Binderoid said:

If the vacuum  was severe  enough to turn those seals over, which I doubt, all the vacuum is between the centerline of the  blower and the emergency shutdown.  

Since the long block by itself is incapable  of  producing vacuum,  how did the "oil and air" get into cylinders?

It would  have to have been blown in... when  the inlet to the blower is  plugged, the blower can't blow. 

Hold your  hand over the hose on your shop vac and see how much air comes out the exhaust. 

Detroit's are known for this: if one runs away, replace the shaft seals or the next time it runs away it might not shut down because of oil leakage from the last run away. (seen in cumminstinkerer's post)

You said it yourself: when  the inlet to the blower is  plugged, the blower can't blow. 

Since the engine is still trying to pull air at high RPM's but the intake is blocked, a vacuum is created (like a choke in a gas engine), so the engine pulls oil and air through the weakened blower seals.

I hope this explanation makes sense! 🙂