Two Questions, one welding, one 'bead buster'

[Coytee]

Are those bead busters worth anything that I've seen online?  Preparing to try to remove rear tire from rim on 1066 (so I can replace rim).  Current thinking is use bottle jack on side to push against backhoe bucket to break bead.  fairly sure I can get it done that way but always worth thinking about plan "B" in case it fails.

 

More important:  On 15' mower, need to weld jack stand and like idea of strengthening the "A" frame.

As a practical matter, I've never welded before.  The item in picture is the first (and second) thing I've ever welded but had a known issue with welder (and was 120 volt if that matters)

The frame is '[' shaped, looks to be .355 inches thick and jack stand is 1/4" thick.

Been wanting excuse to buy/learn a welder so this is the kick in my pants.  What I do NOT know is how small is too small?  (what's a good size to get)

Thinking Harbor Freight, looking at dual input voltage however, have 30/40 feet of 8-3 w/g that I can take to an outlet (if I do that, what amperage would that limit me to?)

 

Picture of frame with pulled jack stand.  Second picture is from inside to show hole it created.  I want to weld some steel inside there to (hopefully) strengthen it up.

Be kind on the welding critiques, this was literally the first AND second thing I've ever welded.  Zero training.  Brother in law handed me welder and said have at it.  Both hooked a branch/stump.  The jackstand holder on top of mower just popped right off (first weld) and this was the second where I had slightly better access AND we heated the metal a bit but still, that is my entire experience with a welder and zero practice/experience.  Give me a touch of slack for at least wanting to try!! 

 

 

 

 

[1480x3]

My bead buster works great, air over hyd. It looks just like the one my tire guy has except mine dont show as much use/abuse as his. Found it online, was less than $500 IIRC. been 8 to 10 years i suppose.

[Coytee]

4 minutes ago, 1480x3 said:

My bead buster works great, air over hyd. It looks just like the one my tire guy has except mine dont show as much use/abuse as his. Found it online, was less than $500 IIRC. been 8 to 10 years i suppose.

I think I've seen something like that.  For my needs, not sure I want (or can justify) that type expense hence, the 30 ton bottle jack pushing sideways against my backhoe.  Not sure that would work either but for that type of cost difference and the number of times I've needed something like that....  worth the gamble.

Normally, I'd put tire on ground and use backhoe bucket (flat side edge) to simply squash it off the bead.  Might have to do that with this but I think I've read that it's much easier to remove tire if the assembly is being held by tractor verses laying on ground.

I've seen (via facebook feeds?  Not sure really where from....)  more of a hand held type, they put their battery operated impact (I suppose) on it and it slides tire off in about .2502 seconds.  I'll admit I'm dubious of that but it's what I see.  Oh, and I think the unit is something like $150 or something like that (still more than I want to spend until after I exhaust all my backhoe ideas)  I'm presuming those are either weak for the job or, won't last very long (but I don't know any of that to be accurate)

[CRVB91]

I think the weld in the first picture appears to have an uneven bead and limited penetration/fusion, rather than properly fusing the two pieces together. There is also considerable surface contamination around the joint.

With basically zero experience, 120 V power, rusty material and a joint that gets repeatedly shock-loaded, I'd be much more suspicious of the setup/process than your ability to weld. 

If you're looking to buy a welder, I'd go dual-voltage and around the 200 A class rather than buying a little 120-V-only machine. then something capable of roughly 120 V: 90–140 A usable welding range 240 V: 180–210+ A. 

You don't need a big industrial sized machine. You want something that gives you enough heat to properly weld 1/4"–3/8" steel, especially when you're learning. On 120 V, you can learn, practice, do lighter work, weld brackets, sheet, etc but then when you've got a serious chunk of steel in front of you plug it into 240 V substantially more available input power = much better penetration and duty cycle! 🙂

[Sledgehammer]

If you want to take a little road trip I've got a couple Lincoln Tombstone welders I would sell cheap. 220 volt stick welders, AC only. Plug in, buy some rods, and weld. 

[lotsaIHCs]

Yes, you want to leave the tire on the tractor. Nobody wants to change a tractor tire laying flat. I have my doubts that a hydraulic jack is going to break the bead. Especially trying to push on it sideways, against a backhoe that can move. You need a bead breaker that will get down between the rim flange and tire. I've never used one of the screw type breakers. I think we had one at the tire shop where I worked but we only used the air over hydraulic ones. I've broken lots of beads with a duck bill hammer and a lot of Murphy's tire lube. A bead breaking bar and hammer will do in a pinch. It works. Slow, but it works. Never had any luck with the slide hammer type of bead breaker on anything more than a car tire.

[M35A2]

From a former weld supply distributor.  Buy something that is capable of 120 and 220 volt.  That picture shows a severe lack of penetration with uneven welding.   The 110 is nice when you don't have 220, but time and time again we used to have people buy a 110volt only, then come back and complain that it would not weld 1/2 steel.  They went the cheap route.  When buying a welder, you need to buy based on what you need/or might need, not the cheapest possible.   Also stick with something you buy at a welding supply store so you can get parts/consumable items down the road.  Those brands are going to be Miller, Lincoln (the industrial line), and Esab.  Avoid Century, Forney, Vulcan (Harbor Freight) or something bought at a hardware store.  The only off-brand that tends to be decent is Hobart, which is Miller's consumer line of welders.  Yes you are going to pay more for a Miller, Lincoln Industrial, or Esab, but consumables are more available over the years, and better built.  

[int 504]

The Lincoln that Sledge offered will do just about anything you need to do around the farm. It's old school but reliable and could be an inexpensive solution. Don't know about the distance part. 

[yellowrosefarm]

The most important thing is to find a welding friend or someone that is willing to come to your place and spend an hour or so with you to show the basics.  If you can watch while someone explains, it's so much easier to grasp what is actually happening, and what you need to do. After that, it's all about practice.  A Lincoln "Tombstone welder" is a great, inexpensive unit that can do most everything needed on a farm.  And, will make a better welder out of you when you step up to a MIG.

On the bead breaker, I used one similar to this https://www.vevor.com/hydraulic-bead-breaker-c_10298/vevor-manual-tire-bead-breaker-38-42-tires-changer-tool-with-rubber-pad-protect-aluminum-alloy-hubs-easy-operated-tire-repair-tool-for-atvs-utvs-tractors-trucks-cars-heavy-duty-tires-p_010407666815?adp=gmc&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=23558039003&ad_group=198857940648&ad_id=797139707514&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23558039003&gbraid=0AAAAACq8bLWEuHcDV8jkTZ7BlFpYDmjyP&gclid=CjwKCAjwq8PVBhAKEiwA2i3SHZk3iyf7UMsbSk8wIHVDHjBTqPCpI0eYWESi53l8iC7FGe6Bzh0n0RoC0ysQAvD_BwE  for many years until I found an air/hydraulic one at an auction.  Most tractor tires have a slot made in them at the bead for using a breaker. But even without that, one of these will break it.  

[Shell1066]

Will A hyd jack work on it's side?? I've never had one that would. Don't know what your budget for a welder is but Watch facebook and those types of places. A welder of whatever brand you want will show up. I'm a firm believer, buy once, cry once... I bought a Miller 252 this spring that didn't have much wire run thru it.  Prob one or two rolls. 3400 cash with a half full tank of gas, Half spool of wire and a 25 foot 220volt heavy duty extension cord. Best money I spent. Welding store told me I got 5600 bucks worth of stuff. Said that welder will last 20 plus years at least. Welding shop here has several Miller 252's that are pushing 20 years and they get used hard every day.

[acem]

If you are welding typical thick rusty farm steel, the old Lincoln Tombstone welder is you friend.  Turn the amps up to 120 and use 1/8 6011 rods.  Of course you clean it first but it probably will not ever be really clean.  When I learned welding at a short day course, they called 6011 farm and oilfield rod.

A hydraulic jack can work on it's side.  You need to have the piston part down in the oil.  If it's up out of the oil it will not work.

I've gotten older (59) and have professionals (youngsters) mount rear tractor tires anymore.  I take the tire/rim off and take it to the tire shop.  They don't charge that much...

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I had a manual bead breaker years ago. It worked perfectly fine for large ag tires. I think the threads ended up coming apart somehow, I don’t remember exactly. I used it many times before it failed. I think it was sold new at the Deere dealer, maybe 20-25 years ago. I bought a hydraulic one after it failed that I still have. I welded with an AC welder for years. A DC arc welder is much, much better for general repairs. Cheap welders are much more difficult to use, especially for a novice. 

[1967806]

2 hours ago, M35A2 said:

From a former weld supply distributor.  Buy something that is capable of 120 and 220 volt.  That picture shows a severe lack of penetration with uneven welding.   The 110 is nice when you don't have 220, but time and time again we used to have people buy a 110volt only, then come back and complain that it would not weld 1/2 steel.  They went the cheap route.  When buying a welder, you need to buy based on what you need/or might need, not the cheapest possible.   Also stick with something you buy at a welding supply store so you can get parts/consumable items down the road.  Those brands are going to be Miller, Lincoln (the industrial line), and Esab.  Avoid Century, Forney, Vulcan (Harbor Freight) or something bought at a hardware store.  The only off-brand that tends to be decent is Hobart, which is Miller's consumer line of welders.  Yes you are going to pay more for a Miller, Lincoln Industrial, or Esab, but consumables are more available over the years, and better built.  

Welded with alot of Forney welders in my early years in the 80's. They were all AC/DC with the plug in outlets. Did not know they are junk now. Been to a few sales lately with the old turn knob A/C welders like we had in high school shop. Passed on them. Cant settle for an A/C only welder now. Some rods wont work on A/C I have found over the years. 

[1967806]

2 hours ago, M35A2 said:

From a former weld supply distributor.  Buy something that is capable of 120 and 220 volt.  That picture shows a severe lack of penetration with uneven welding.   The 110 is nice when you don't have 220, but time and time again we used to have people buy a 110volt only, then come back and complain that it would not weld 1/2 steel.  They went the cheap route.  When buying a welder, you need to buy based on what you need/or might need, not the cheapest possible.   Also stick with something you buy at a welding supply store so you can get parts/consumable items down the road.  Those brands are going to be Miller, Lincoln (the industrial line), and Esab.  Avoid Century, Forney, Vulcan (Harbor Freight) or something bought at a hardware store.  The only off-brand that tends to be decent is Hobart, which is Miller's consumer line of welders.  Yes you are going to pay more for a Miller, Lincoln Industrial, or Esab, but consumables are more available over the years, and better built.  

I also think they have changed something in the flux of these newer welding rods. The old 6013's I could lay a nice fillet welds where 2 pieces get welded at a right angle. Last time I got a new pack of 6013's It looked like I hardly got them to stick the two peices together after I chipped the slag off. 

[whweldit]

Probably been more welders started and more farm repairs done with the Lincoln tombstone than any 3 welders of any other brand.  Check your area and see  if there is a tech school that offers night welding classes.  I did basic welding night classes for several years at our tech high school.  98% of the ones that enrolled were local farmers/homeowners that wanted to be able to fix things around home.  We covered using torch, stick welding and MiG welding.  

[1967806]

5 minutes ago, whweldit said:

Probably been more welders started and more farm repairs done with the Lincoln tombstone than any 3 welders of any other brand.  Check your area and see  if there is a tech school that offers night welding classes.  

Come on man. I'm not in to school anymore. Dont make me back, please. 😀I'm old enough now I like to set on my ass after hours. 😀

[acem]

47 minutes ago, 1967806 said:

Welded with alot of Forney welders in my early years in the 80's. They were all AC/DC with the plug in outlets. Did not know they are junk now. Been to a few sales lately with the old turn knob A/C welders like we had in high school shop. Passed on them. Cant settle for an A/C only welder now. Some rods wont work on A/C I have found over the years. 

Our older eyes don't work as good with welding helmets as our younger eyes did!

 

[1480x3]

5 hours ago, Coytee said:

I think I've seen something like that.  For my needs, not sure I want (or can justify) that type expense hence, the 30 ton bottle jack pushing sideways against my backhoe.  Not sure that would work either but for that type of cost difference and the number of times I've needed something like that....  worth the gamble.

Normally, I'd put tire on ground and use backhoe bucket (flat side edge) to simply squash it off the bead.  Might have to do that with this but I think I've read that it's much easier to remove tire if the assembly is being held by tractor verses laying on ground.

I've seen (via facebook feeds?  Not sure really where from....)  more of a hand held type, they put their battery operated impact (I suppose) on it and it slides tire off in about .2502 seconds.  I'll admit I'm dubious of that but it's what I see.  Oh, and I think the unit is something like $150 or something like that (still more than I want to spend until after I exhaust all my backhoe ideas)  I'm presuming those are either weak for the job or, won't last very long (but I don't know any of that to be accurate)

I used to borrow the screw type bead breaker from my neighbor & use my impact on it. Now he borrows mine & his collects dust.

[1967806]

33 minutes ago, acem said:

Our older eyes don't work as good with welding helmets as our younger eyes did!

 

You're right for sure. I have to have readers on to weld or read anything in print. Most times mine get fogged over or make a glaring reflection under that helmet that I just cant deal with. My son has better eyes and I just let him do the welding now days.

[acem]

I've burned many rods with an old welder like this...

6011 and the buzz box are like peas and carrots.

[Ihfan4life]

DON’T let your first welding job become your last! Meaning, don’t weld something that you plan on crawling under or near IF you’re new to welding. Find a competent welder to do that… 

 

[1967806]

38 minutes ago, acem said:

I've burned many rods with an old welder like this...

6011 and the buzz box are like peas and carrots.

That looks like the ones we had in high school in ag shop.

[whweldit]

Started out with the Lincoln ac tombstone.  Ran it for several years.  Upgraded to a Lincoln ideal arc ac/dc.  Then added a millermatic 210 wire feed when I retired. Then acquired a miller 5/8 capacity plasma cutter. Don’t use any of them a much now but when needed they work great. 

[lotsaIHCs]

48 minutes ago, acem said:

I've burned many rods with an old welder like this...

6011 and the buzz box are like peas and carrots.

My dad and I each have one of those. I welded the Fatman Mustang II front suspension kit in my 56 Chevy with his. That was in about 1993 or so and it's still going today. The pickup and the welders. I'll add that I burned a lot of 6013 rods with them too.

[naedlaen]

Forget pushing against the backhoe bucket.  Use a heavy chain or make a jig to go around the tire and rim to jack against.  If using a chain maybe use a short piece of pipe with a notch in one end to hold the chain and a bolt a short way from the end as the push plate.  This allows the jack ram to keep everything straight.  Base of jack on tire.  If the tire is too spongy, use the 3/9 o'clock position and fasten the tail of the chain to the tractor (lassoing the jack and tire)

This is the method I used to press out and in new bearing bushings in the knees of the wide front.

Neal