5 shank disc chisel vs 4 bottom moldboard plow

[Farming Enthusiast]

I just bought a 5 shank Glencoe SS to pull with my 1256. I am curious if anybody knows if a 5 shank GSS with 4" twisted shovels pulls as hard 10"-11" deep as a 4-18 IH 720 MBP 7-8" deep. 

[Chester5732]

Not sure but you shouldn’t have any trouble pulling it anyways. I pulled a 7 shank Landoll with my 806.  

[Farming Enthusiast]

26 minutes ago, Chester5732 said:

Not sure but you shouldn’t have any trouble pulling it anyways. I pulled a 7 shank Landoll with my 806.  

Yea, I'm sure I won't have any problems pulling it. I wanted to get something useful to use my 1256 for as opposed to working it overly hard. 

[Chester5732]

8 minutes ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

Yea, I'm sure I won't have any problems pulling it. I wanted to get something useful to use my 1256 for as opposed to working it overly hard. 

You won’t know that 5 shank is back there. 

[Farmall1066]

I’ll be surprised if you can get it down 10-11 inches, we always thought we were getting 8-10 inches deep with ours, 4-6 was it.  I don’t think a 1256 will notice a 5 shank

[Farming Enthusiast]

Just now, Farmall1066 said:

I’ll be surprised if you can get it down 10-11 inches, we always thought we were getting 8-10 inches deep with ours, 4-6 was it.  I don’t think a 1256 will notice a 5 shank

Yea I was playing around with the pitch of the rig and if I have it tipped back I can hold 10" consistently but the discs dont cut as well. I'll need to get new discs anyway, they only measure 17". 

[Farmall1066]

You probably have better dirt than we do in my area.  We need a ripper to come through, frost doesn’t even seem to break our layer we fight.

[Rick G.]

I had a KRAUSE 7 shank soil saver with the straight disc gang on front,  4” twist shovels, with a Remlinger S-Tine ridge leveler attached. I also had a IH 720 5-16s semi-mounted Toggle Trip plow, with in furrow hitch.

The soil saver always pulled harder than the moldboard plow. But then, I always had the soil saver working deeper than the 720.

I could usually moldboard plow without the axle duals installed if I wanted to, but at other times would keep a dual installed on the left side when moldboarding.

With the soil saver, I would  always dual up the tractors, otherwise they would want to spin out. 

A lot depends on your soil type, and how your tractor is ballasted with fluid and / or cast wheel weights, and of course whether or not you are using duals. 

I rotated my primary tillage work between either of my two 1456s, my 1086, or my CIH 7220, just to give them all a bit of “exercise” from time to time. I never got around to pulling the soil saver or the 720 with my 1066 or 1466.

A healthy 1256 should have no problem with a 5 shank twisted shovel soil saver. Mind your ballasting and may need duals to help keep from spinning out depending on your conditions. But I’m not sure  how wide is a 5 shank unit? The duals would probably track wider than the working width of the soil saver? 

 

 

[Farming Enthusiast]

3 minutes ago, Rick G. said:

I had a KRAUSE 7 shank soil saver with the 4” twist shovels, with a Remlinger S-Tine ridge leveler attached. I also had a IH 720 5-16s semi-mounted Toggle Trip plow, with in furrow hitch.

The soil saver always pulled harder than the moldboard plow. But then, I always had the soil saver working deeper than the 720.

I could usually moldboard plow without the axle duals installed if I wanted to, but at other times would keep a dual installed on the left side. 

With the soil saver, I would  always dual up the tractors, otherwise they would want to spin out. 

A lot depends on your soil type, and how your tractor is ballasted with fluid and / or cast wheel weights, and of course whether or not you are using duals. 

I rotated my primary tillage work between either of my two 1456s, my 1086, or my CIH 7220, just to give them all a bit of “exercise” from time to time. I never got around to pulling the soil saver or the 720 with my 1066 or 1466.

A healthy 1256 should have no problem with a 5 shank twisted shovel soil saver. Mind your ballasting and may need duals depending on conditions. 

 

 

This is a tractor that I use for pulling so it has 20.8-23 degree Firestone radial all traction with about 40% tread. I have two sets of wheel weights and 2000 pounds of suitcase weights I can use to balance as I have a belly bar and rear hanger on the back. I am not against new tires as I have 18.4 duals and still have 18.4 inners on rims that I can put on the duals and put new tires on inners if need be. I'm going to see this fall how the 20.8 singles do to make the decision about whether to run 20.8 singles or put the 18.4s back on and run duals. The singles will stay within my tool width so I'd like to make that work. 

[766 Man]

  We would never go 10-11" deep around here with a Soil Saver as it would bring up subsoil.  Travel speed with a moldboard plow would be slower as speed increases so does friction which in turn creates heat which destroys organic matter.  

[Mark (EC,IN)]

I had a 7-shank Soil Saver.

I'm going to guess the 4x18" plow will pull harder.

I also don't think the SS will go any deeper than the plow has plowed. I don't think the springs on the shanks will let it.

A SS is a primary tillage tool, but it's not a ripper.

[2+2love]

I pull a 7 shank case ih 6650(glencoe yield builder) with my 5488 mfwd.

I give the tractor a work out too. 

I tried to add a picture but it's not working. 

[Farming Enthusiast]

2 hours ago, 2+2love said:

I pull a 7 shank case ih 6650(glencoe yield builder) with my 5488 mfwd.

I give the tractor a work out too. 

I tried to add a picture but it's not working. 

Yea I've heard they can pull hard so I got one size smaller than I thought I could pull maxed out. Just looking to keep the cob webs out of the old girl.

[brahamfireman]

12 hours ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

This is a tractor that I use for pulling so it has 20.8-23 degree Firestone radial all traction with about 40% tread. I have two sets of wheel weights and 2000 pounds of suitcase weights I can use to balance as I have a belly bar and rear hanger on the back. I am not against new tires as I have 18.4 duals and still have 18.4 inners on rims that I can put on the duals and put new tires on inners if need be. I'm going to see this fall how the 20.8 singles do to make the decision about whether to run 20.8 singles or put the 18.4s back on and run duals. The singles will stay within my tool width so I'd like to make that work. 

No way you'll cover the tracks with duals.  A 5 shank Glencoe is only 75 inches wide.  20.8's set at 30" means your outer tread is 80" at max width. 

You've got more than enough weight to pull that with singles. 

[brahamfireman]

12 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  We would never go 10-11" deep around here with a Soil Saver as it would bring up subsoil.  Travel speed with a moldboard plow would be slower as speed increases so does friction which in turn creates heat which destroys organic matter.  

Ahh the old speed burns the soil.....

No it doesn't. Turning dirt releases CO2.  Organic matter is just a measure of CO2 in the soil.  You can see how plowing " removes" organic matter on a scientific level,  but i can tell you as soon as the moldboard left and we started chiseling at 5 mph, organic matter increased. 

[smfarms]

21 hours ago, Rick G. said:

I had a KRAUSE 7 shank soil saver with the straight disc gang on front,  4” twist shovels, with a Remlinger S-Tine ridge leveler attached. I also had a IH 720 5-16s semi-mounted Toggle Trip plow, with in furrow hitch.

The soil saver always pulled harder than the moldboard plow. But then, I always had the soil saver working deeper than the 720.

I could usually moldboard plow without the axle duals installed if I wanted to, but at other times would keep a dual installed on the left side when moldboarding.

With the soil saver, I would  always dual up the tractors, otherwise they would want to spin out. 

A lot depends on your soil type, and how your tractor is ballasted with fluid and / or cast wheel weights, and of course whether or not you are using duals. 

I rotated my primary tillage work between either of my two 1456s, my 1086, or my CIH 7220, just to give them all a bit of “exercise” from time to time. I never got around to pulling the soil saver or the 720 with my 1066 or 1466.

A healthy 1256 should have no problem with a 5 shank twisted shovel soil saver. Mind your ballasting and may need duals to help keep from spinning out depending on your conditions. But I’m not sure  how wide is a 5 shank unit? The duals would probably track wider than the working width of the soil saver? 

I used to have a 9 shank Brillion disc chisel and used 4” twisted shovels. Always used duals and it just barely covered my tracks. Pulled with a 1456 and mostly with a 3388. Mostly in muck and lighter ground. Some heavy ground and that made them work 

 

 

 

[Binderoid]

12 hours ago, brahamfireman said:

Ahh the old speed burns the soil.....

No it doesn't. Turning dirt releases CO2.  Organic matter is just a measure of CO2 in the soil.  You can see how plowing " removes" organic matter on a scientific level,  but i can tell you as soon as the moldboard left and we started chiseling at 5 mph, organic matter increased. 

Cyrus McCormick nearly went broke at one point because the belief back then was that cast steel plows poisoned  the soil. 

[Binderoid]

Deere probably started that rumor

[Big Bud guy]

52 minutes ago, Binderoid said:

Cyrus McCormick nearly went broke at one point because the belief back then was that cast steel plows poisoned  the soil. 

BS.  He almost went broke because of the Panic of 1837 causing iron prices to plummet and a partner pulling out of the venture. Stupid cast iron plow had nothing to do with it.  

[Binderoid]

Not 100% accurate to say the least. He sunk millions into a foundry and lost his shirt.

Or, you better dig up Charles Wendel and tell him hes wrong.

[766 Man]

14 hours ago, brahamfireman said:

Ahh the old speed burns the soil.....

No it doesn't. Turning dirt releases CO2.  Organic matter is just a measure of CO2 in the soil.  You can see how plowing " removes" organic matter on a scientific level,  but i can tell you as soon as the moldboard left and we started chiseling at 5 mph, organic matter increased. 

  Across 16 inches or one bottom is more soil contact with a plow bottom versus a 4 inch soil saver shovel  covering 15 inches of width.  Most of that 15 inch section does not make contact with steel therefore no burning of OM.  

[ChrisNY]

There is no "burning" of organic matter.  Any type of tillage reduces OM to an extent. It is the release of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Stirring the soil introduces oxygen which speeds up the soil microbes breaking down the organic matter releasing carbon dioxide and the amount of stored carbon in the soil.

[naedlaen]

Draft increases exponentially with depth.  I believe that it is about a power of two so twice the depth is 4 times the draft.  Total draft would be time the area.  Area times depth squared times soil factors that might be less than 1 for one soil and more than 1 for another.

As to burning organic matter, introduction of oxygen allows bacteria to work on the organic matter faster than in undisturbed soil.  This can be beneficial with occasion tillage, but extensive tillage also changes the soil biology and its ability to increase organic matter.  Average yearly soil temperature is another factor in soil organic matter.  This finding black soils happens more often in climates that experience a longer freeze period.  Red soils are more common in the Southern USA (where there is adequate moisture) than in the Midwest.  a0100e.pdf page 32 of the pdf

Neal

[Big Bud guy]

20 hours ago, Binderoid said:

 

Or, you better dig up Charles Wendel and tell him hes wrong.

I did and what he printed is pretty much the opposite of what you are saying.  He patented a cast iron plow in 1833 and it was successful enough to stay in production into the which was also AFTER!! their foundry business went south in 1837.    If I could post pictures you would be eating crow right now.  

[brahamfireman]

9 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  Across 16 inches or one bottom is more soil contact with a plow bottom versus a 4 inch soil saver shovel  covering 15 inches of width.  Most of that 15 inch section does not make contact with steel therefore no burning of OM.  

Your right,  I wasn't arguing that.

I was pointing out how dumb the old "speed burns the soil" myth is.