When Expensive Herbicide Doesn't Work and Weeds Laugh At You

[Chester5732]

3 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

. That is not reality. The end user will pay all of the added costs. Farmers will pay none of it.

Not sure what world you live in but JFK said it best: Farmers pay retail, sell wholesale and pay the freight both ways. The farmers will pay at least a portion. 

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I don’t like using Paraquat. 

I don't either but its the only thing that works on late summer roundup ready kochia and Russian thistle.   Paraquat is a big reason I have my chemical handling setup the way it is for my sprayers.  

[MeanGene1]

In Southern Tier NY we used EPTAM premerge to control "quackgrass" in the kidney beans. Somewhere I have a pic of gramps on the 706D Demonstrator with the spray and incorporate rig. Boom hanging down from the weight box on front (!) 100gal tank on the 3pt, 13-1/2 ft disc with a 12' drag behind that. No PPE whatsoever and driving thru the spray. At least when we sprayed Shed-A-Leaf it was with a rear-mounted boom. Look that one up- I'll give you a hint- it came in orange drums and dried the plants out in 3 days

Quick memory check of chemicals- Sevin, M22, M45, Guthion, Parathion, EPTAM, Shed-A-Leaf (Agent Orange)- I

ll probably remember a couple more

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

22 minutes ago, Chester5732 said:

Not sure what world you live in but JFK said it best: Farmers pay retail, sell wholesale and pay the freight both ways. The farmers will pay at least a portion. 

Adam Smith said it much better:

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.

If there is no money in it, they’re not going to do it. 
 

It makes as much sense as saying the gas station will cover the increase if fuel taxes are raised. No they won’t, they couldn’t if they wanted to. The person buying the fuel will pay the increase. Arbitrary consumer demands will be paid by consumers or there won’t be product available. Once profit margins and equity are gone, operations cease. Most consumers have no idea of the intricate web that allows food to be on the shelves at the store. I’m not running a hippy commune, I’m going to make money or I’m quitting. 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

8 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I don't either but its the only thing that works on late summer roundup ready kochia and Russian thistle.   Paraquat is a big reason I have my chemical handling setup the way it is for my sprayers.  

In years when burndown is very delayed here, Paraquat will work when nothing else will. It can turn an absolute weed disaster into a field so dry you could light it on fire in 36 hours. 

[acem]

Paraquat is very weak on grass here. If the grass is big it won't kill it.

In the south, palmer amaranth is called pigweed. Your area my differ.

Whatever we do to control weeds,  parasites, whatever, we just crap the population to what is immune to our methods. Someday new technologies will come out and chemicals will go by the wayside. But for now they ate our best option.

The biggest danger of farm chemicals is to the farmers not the consumers.

If everyone returned to full tillage and cultivating our soil erosion would be terrible.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

32 minutes ago, acem said:

Paraquat is very weak on grass here. If the grass is big it won't kill it.

In the south, palmer amaranth is called pigweed. Your area my differ.

Whatever we do to control weeds,  parasites, whatever, we just crap the population to what is immune to our methods. Someday new technologies will come out and chemicals will go by the wayside. But for now they ate our best option.

The biggest danger of farm chemicals is to the farmers not the consumers.

If everyone returned to full tillage and cultivating our soil erosion would be terrible.

If it can be done cheap enough, I can see A I and robots taking the place of chemical. 

[Lars (midessa)]

Over on LinkedIn, I follow a company’s that are developing a robot of sorts, that travels between the row crops and zaps weeds with an electric charge of sorts. One of those companies is called Greenfield Robotics if I recall. Interesting stuff, not sure it how scalable it could be, as the current machines do 1 row at a time.

[FarmerFixEmUp]

The field I went to today was the first field of soybeans I planted, and the most weedy. Sure would have been nice to get a rain to activate those pres. I'd say I got 70% of the weeds with the cultivator and really should spray something to at least trry to get some more. The beans are starting to bloom. I already burned the beams with flexstar firstrate, only other option is ultra blazer or cobra. Weeds this big probably won't die anyway. 

 

 

 

3 rows to the right aren't cultivated yet, farther over has been. There are spots the waterhemp is  much thicker. 

I have a 12 row 183 cultivator I don't use much. I don't like using it on contour rows because it needs to go on a 1066 or 5288 and both have cabs. Can't see where the rear wheels are positioned between the rows like the 706  or 806 where you just look down and see the tire. It's fine in straight rows. I used to run it on the 1206 I had, but the guy who owned it before wanted it back more than I wanted to keep it! The 5288 can't get to actual 30 inch spacing with front axle or rear about 32 is where they sit. I have a Wetherell guide hitch but never got it on to try it out. 

I have always raised non gmo beans. Years ago all we put down was Treflan, post was Pursuit, concert and cobra if needed, and clethodim for volunteer corn. Worked great until maybe 15 years ago. Now you have all these needed additions and still have a mess. 

 

 

[bitty]

7 hours ago, acem said:

 

If everyone returned to full tillage and cultivating our soil erosion would be terrible.

We are highly erodable here . There is two small organic guys in the area that we are at. When we get certain weather it will be brown in the creeks . 

 

If we went 100% no chemicals across the world there would be NO increase in the price of food unless there was food shortages. I remember the dairy co-op promised to pay more for no rbst used (completely natural occurring in cows already and completely untestable) . There was never a premium that didn't disappear before they stopped talking about it. 

I have heard that some places are spraying wheat with Roundup days before harvest. This doesn't make sense to me. Is that done with Paraquat also? 

I want to use enough to do a good job on control and little enough to be the most economical when it comes to spray. 

[Chester5732]

7 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

If it can be done cheap enough, I can see A I and robots taking the place of chemical. 

Hopefully AI and robots work better than the Chinese dancing robots and self driving cars.  That would be cultivator blight of epic proportions. 

[acem]

I know a professor who is now working on robot weeders at some big Ag university. Lazers, steam, targeted chemical, whatever works. I think swarms of small robots killing weeds is a great idea.

2 hours ago, bitty said:

We are highly erodable here . There is two small organic guys in the area that we are at. When we get certain weather it will be brown in the creeks . 

 

If we went 100% no chemicals across the world there would be NO increase in the price of food unless there was food shortages. I remember the dairy co-op promised to pay more for no rbst used (completely natural occurring in cows already and completely untestable) . There was never a premium that didn't disappear before they stopped talking about it. 

I have heard that some places are spraying wheat with Roundup days before harvest. This doesn't make sense to me. Is that done with Paraquat also? 

I want to use enough to do a good job on control and little enough to be the most economical when it comes to spray. 

Spraying Dessicants to clean up a field and hasten dry down is a thing.  Sodium Chlorate and Paraquat are commonly used. I don't think roundup would work here due to resistance.

I have rarely done it. 

Normal practice for Cotton.

[acem]

A hoe is the most reliable weed control method I have seen.

However humans seem to develop a resistance to it...

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

8 hours ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The field I went to today was the first field of soybeans I planted, and the most weedy. Sure would have been nice to get a rain to activate those pres. I'd say I got 70% of the weeds with the cultivator and really should spray something to at least trry to get some more. The beans are starting to bloom. I already burned the beams with flexstar firstrate, only other option is ultra blazer or cobra. Weeds this big probably won't die anyway. 

 

 

 

3 rows to the right aren't cultivated yet, farther over has been. There are spots the waterhemp is  much thicker. 

I have a 12 row 183 cultivator I don't use much. I don't like using it on contour rows because it needs to go on a 1066 or 5288 and both have cabs. Can't see where the rear wheels are positioned between the rows like the 706  or 806 where you just look down and see the tire. It's fine in straight rows. I used to run it on the 1206 I had, but the guy who owned it before wanted it back more than I wanted to keep it! The 5288 can't get to actual 30 inch spacing with front axle or rear about 32 is where they sit. I have a Wetherell guide hitch but never got it on to try it out. 

I have always raised non gmo beans. Years ago all we put down was Treflan, post was Pursuit, concert and cobra if needed, and clethodim for volunteer corn. Worked great until maybe 15 years ago. Now you have all these needed additions and still have a mess. 

 

 

On tobacco we used to use Command and Spartan before we set it out. They were both very good products for us. By the time we cultivated, there was not much in it. I believe both of those products are labeled for beans. We used heavy tillage practices as well. Command had a long withdrawal and would usually injure the cover crop after the tobacco. I hated the way Cobra worked. We only used Phoenix, it’s the same active ingredient as Cobra, but did not burn the beans at all. 

[brahamfireman]

16 hours ago, Cool1566 said:

Since I seem to not know much about weeds, my comment about cold hard steel still holds true. Weeds do not adapt to a disc or a turning plow. And yes we do have waterhemp here. Also roundup resistant barnyard grass. I also spray 20000 acres a year so I do have some experience in chemical control. Weeds will and do adapt to certain chemistries. Run over a weed with a disc blade and you’ll most likely end up with a dead weed. 

How does a guy disc through standing beans????

I'll send you pictures of waterhemp later this year that doesn't care about "cold hard steal"

[1967806]

10 hours ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The field I went to today was the first field of soybeans I planted, and the most weedy. Sure would have been nice to get a rain to activate those pres. I'd say I got 70% of the weeds with the cultivator and really should spray something to at least trry to get some more. The beans are starting to bloom. I already burned the beams with flexstar firstrate, only other option is ultra blazer or cobra. Weeds this big probably won't die anyway. 

 

 

 

3 rows to the right aren't cultivated yet, farther over has been. There are spots the waterhemp is  much thicker. 

I have a 12 row 183 cultivator I don't use much. I don't like using it on contour rows because it needs to go on a 1066 or 5288 and both have cabs. Can't see where the rear wheels are positioned between the rows like the 706  or 806 where you just look down and see the tire. It's fine in straight rows. I used to run it on the 1206 I had, but the guy who owned it before wanted it back more than I wanted to keep it! The 5288 can't get to actual 30 inch spacing with front axle or rear about 32 is where they sit. I have a Wetherell guide hitch but never got it on to try it out. 

I have always raised non gmo beans. Years ago all we put down was Treflan, post was Pursuit, concert and cobra if needed, and clethodim for volunteer corn. Worked great until maybe 15 years ago. Now you have all these needed additions and still have a mess. 

 

 

I think the 5288 would be a better choice on the cultivator if you have the same experience I've had with my 1466 on a cultivator. That lateral limiter on the 3 point is joke. The 806 with the fast hitch is way better and I'd guess the sway blocks on a 50 series would be as good as a fast hitch.  

[Cool1566]

3 hours ago, brahamfireman said:

How does a guy disc through standing beans????

I'll send you pictures of waterhemp later this year that doesn't care about "cold hard steal"

The best weed prevention program I have found includes tillage (cold hard steel) and multiple layering of pre emerge chemistries.
  If you have waterhemp in your standing beans perhaps you might consider adding tillage (cold hard steel) in the  fall or spring to lessen the weed seed bank load in the top two inches of soil. 
  This technique has worked great for me but I also realize that each farm has different conditions and each farm must do what’s best for itself. 
  Waterhemp is a very challenging weed for everyone. 

[brahamfireman]

3 minutes ago, Cool1566 said:

The best weed prevention program I have found includes tillage (cold hard steel) and multiple layering of pre emerge chemistries.
  If you have waterhemp in your standing beans perhaps you might consider adding tillage (cold hard steel) in the  fall or spring to lessen the weed seed bank load in the top two inches of soil. 
  This technique has worked great for me but I also realize that each farm has different conditions and each farm must do what’s best for itself. 
  Waterhemp is a very challenging weed for everyone. 

Full tillage here. 

This thread is about cultivating and post spraying.....

[Cool1566]

I’m sorry I got off track. Easy to do with threads. 

[Big Bud guy]

16 hours ago, acem said:

Paraquat is very weak on grass here. If the grass is big it won't kill it.

If everyone returned to full tillage and cultivating our soil erosion would be terrible.

We always put roundup with our paraquat for the grasses when spraying fallow.  You can tell who is an organic farmer around here whenever the wind blows.  We have a hard time keeping the soil from blowing with no-till sometimes. 

[acem]

21 hours ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The field I went to today was the first field of soybeans I planted, and the most weedy. Sure would have been nice to get a rain to activate those pres. I'd say I got 70% of the weeds with the cultivator and really should spray something to at least trry to get some more. The beans are starting to bloom. I already burned the beams with flexstar firstrate, only other option is ultra blazer or cobra. Weeds this big probably won't die anyway. 

 

 

 

3 rows to the right aren't cultivated yet, farther over has been. There are spots the waterhemp is  much thicker. 

I have a 12 row 183 cultivator I don't use much. I don't like using it on contour rows because it needs to go on a 1066 or 5288 and both have cabs. Can't see where the rear wheels are positioned between the rows like the 706  or 806 where you just look down and see the tire. It's fine in straight rows. I used to run it on the 1206 I had, but the guy who owned it before wanted it back more than I wanted to keep it! The 5288 can't get to actual 30 inch spacing with front axle or rear about 32 is where they sit. I have a Wetherell guide hitch but never got it on to try it out. 

I have always raised non gmo beans. Years ago all we put down was Treflan, post was Pursuit, concert and cobra if needed, and clethodim for volunteer corn. Worked great until maybe 15 years ago. Now you have all these needed additions and still have a mess. 

 

 

We took the fenders off our 706 for better vision when cultivating. 

Always wanted an IH 6RW front mounted cultivator but never bought one.

[FarmerFixEmUp]

13 hours ago, 1967806 said:

I think the 5288 would be a better choice on the cultivator if you have the same experience I've had with my 1466 on a cultivator. That lateral limiter on the 3 point is joke. The 806 with the fast hitch is way better and I'd guess the sway blocks on a 50 series would be as good as a fast hitch.  

My 706 has a 3 pt hitch and has these on the hitch and I also have a set for cat 3 3pt. They work great.

 

[FarmerFixEmUp]

Just watched the latest AgPhd show and they talk about late season crop treatment options. They said cobra has a 45 day pre harvest interval, and suggest 1 1/4 lbs of boron to reduce leaf burm. Phoenix is the same as cobra with a safener. Might just try it on that dirtier field, it's only 16 acres. 

https://heftyseed.com/aayjunejuly2022-what-to-do-when-its-too-late-for-dicamba

[IH Forever]

On 7/10/2026 at 11:26 PM, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The field I went to today was the first field of soybeans I planted, and the most weedy. Sure would have been nice to get a rain to activate those pres. I'd say I got 70% of the weeds with the cultivator and really should spray something to at least trry to get some more. The beans are starting to bloom. I already burned the beams with flexstar firstrate, only other option is ultra blazer or cobra. Weeds this big probably won't die anyway. 

 

 

 

3 rows to the right aren't cultivated yet, farther over has been. There are spots the waterhemp is  much thicker. 

I have a 12 row 183 cultivator I don't use much. I don't like using it on contour rows because it needs to go on a 1066 or 5288 and both have cabs. Can't see where the rear wheels are positioned between the rows like the 706  or 806 where you just look down and see the tire. It's fine in straight rows. I used to run it on the 1206 I had, but the guy who owned it before wanted it back more than I wanted to keep it! The 5288 can't get to actual 30 inch spacing with front axle or rear about 32 is where they sit. I have a Wetherell guide hitch but never got it on to try it out. 

I have always raised non gmo beans. Years ago all we put down was Treflan, post was Pursuit, concert and cobra if needed, and clethodim for volunteer corn. Worked great until maybe 15 years ago. Now you have all these needed additions and still have a mess. 

 

 

Prior to no till and strip till Dad had a lot of contour rows. When we used to cultivate I used the 1066 and Noble 8 row wide cultivator. Dad had built guides and mounted to the frame. I’m not sure of the dimensions but think they were mounted ahead of the rear axle the same distance as the cultivator was behind the rear axle. I could look through the lower front window on the deluxe cab and keep that guide on top of the row and the cultivator would follow the contours very well. I remember having more “cultivator blight” on the few long straight rows we have because I would start to day dream.

[acem]

I loved cultivating crops planted on beds. The beds giluided the planter and cultivator. 

A properly set up lilliston rolling cultivator was ideal. I could fly with it once the crop was big enough you didn't cover it up.