IH Tractors on Montana Farm

[Old Binder Guy]

On 10/17/2024 at 7:12 AM, hardtail said:

On the ramp, I see the first pic has a front wheel up in the air but I would imagine there's enough clearance under the boiler?

No exit on the ramp, engine would need to come to a full stop and reverse off? More of an exhibition exercise?

hardtail, There's plenty of clearance under the boiler for this exercise. He could actually stop midway up the ramp and hold it there with steam. After several demos, he will go to the top and stop. Then back part way down, stop go forward, stop go backward all with two levers on that engine down the incline. It takes coordination and keen thought to do this. It's not for the average "steam engineer."

Another longtime friend of mine, the late Carl Tuttle shown here with his late son Kim, on the incline was masterful at this task too. Carl used to fly out from Michigan every fall to play with steam at our show.  He even helped me set the valve on my Case one year.

E.C. "Big Mac" McMillan was the man given credit for reviving the "Case Incline" climbing again, a stunt done in early times of J.I. Case steam engines. This was Big Mac in 1955.

This was Big Mac in later years with his 40 hp Case "Elgin Watch,"  he converted to an incline engine. At the flywheel, ready to put a tachometer on the crankshaft at the flywheel is his friend Chady Atteberry. When Big Mac died, Chady procured Elgin Watch.

My late friend, Harry "Pink" Woodmansee was another early revivor of the Case Incline. He is shown on a 15 hp Case at Justin J. Hingtgen's show in the 1950s.

The original Case Incline climber was Merrill Meigs, a J.I. Case factory employee who would climb the Case Incline at fairs and events. Originally, Case used this 20 hp Case and just the ramp to show it's climbing ability. Merrill Meigs would have to be very careful not to drop the front wheels over the end of this ramp.

 

Merrill was "The Man" until 1912 at the Winnipeg trials, a huge steam and gas tractor power contest in Canada. They tried to see who could plow the most acreage with the least amount of water and coal, in efficiency tests. Back to Merrill Meigs... He got drunk and took the Case up the incline. With impaired reactions, he dropped the front wheels of the engine over the front of the incline table top. Case replaced Meigs over the few remaining Case Incline events ever held again.  That is until Big Mac came along!

 

 

Merrill Meigs on a pre-1909 Case 15 hp at a Northwood, North Dakota Fair. Notice part of the sign ahead of the engine. Case stated "Case Engines Are The Only Hill Climbers." 

At the 1903 Illinois State Fair, Reeves took their challenge.

The C. Aultman Star Mogul (undermounted) too the challenge as well.

Merrill Meigs on a Case Incline postcard, believed to be Minnesota State Fair.

Even the Case Gas Tractors got in on the hill climbing in later years. A 30-60 Case is shown beside the incline and an early "Davis engine" 20-40 tractor is on the hill. 

I included this photo because I just like it. Merrill Meigs on the incline with a 15 hp Case and a 32 hp Case (later designation was 110 hp) parked beside it.

And there were other Case engines who tried hill climbing. They have to have full pressure, right against the pop valve to do this. We (Mike and I) did this in 2008, his last steam event before he was deployed to Afghanistan.  Gary😁

 

 

 

 

[jeeper61]

 

 Mack AC single axle dump truck gets loaded with earth excavation by a Bucyrus-Erie 42-B cable shovel working on roadway approaches for the new Bourne Bridge under const. on Cape Cod, MA. April 1934.

[hardtail]

Gary think it was an illusion in the first pic where the engine front wheels were in the air, must be different shading on the ramp and they are firmly planted

[Old Binder Guy]

1 hour ago, hardtail said:

Gary think it was an illusion in the first pic where the engine front wheels were in the air, must be different shading on the ramp and they are firmly planted

hardtail, No, Those wheels are off of the ramp. At that angle, it is easy to do. It's sometimes HARD to keep them on the ramp. With the boiler water at the back of the engine's boiler, and above the firebox, there is a lot of weight shifted to the rear of the boiler when headed up, making the front end much lighter.

Roger may know, but I'm not aware of any side mounted engines that do the "Case Incline" routinely. The side mounted engines have stub axles into a plate casting that bolts into the side of the firebox area. Their rear wheels are often 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 feet forward of the rear of the boiler's firebox. This is an Avery side mounted engine.

This is a Gaar Scott Side Mounted double cylinder engine.

This is a single cylinder Gaar Scott rear mounted engine. Much wheel base differences.

This was our side mounted 20-70 Nichols & Shepard engine when I was eleven and had a flattop haircut with hair on top of my head. Now it's just on the sides of my head. But a polka dot cap will keep it from getting sun burned.

 

Nichols & Shepard engines even went to a rear mounted plowing engine near the end of their manufacturing, as with this 25-90 rear mounted "plowing engine."

The boy's 20 hp Reeves is rear mounted, as are all Case engines from 1900 up.

This photo shows the axle "cannon bearing" below the firebox door on a Reeves. The upper cannon bearing that houses the counter shaft is above the firebox door. Rear mounted engines don't put a strain on the sides of the outer firebox sheets. 

This is an Advance (?35 hp I believe?) hp side mounted tandem compound engine.

 

This is an Advance 35 hp rear mounted engine. There was much difference in their wheel bases.

I know I always take the long way around the barn when trying to explain things, but I don't think I know of any side mounted steam engines routinely doing "The Case Incline!" And I know Chady's front wheel had a few inches of daylight under them. He told me he did.  Gary😉

 

[jeeper61]

On 9/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, Roger Byrne said:

I told you guys the load of melons got hi-jacked but no body believed me.  I tied to outrun them but those guys on bikes were a lot faster than the old Autowagon with a big load of Anson's melons.

                          Thanks MAC for the photo evidence!!

This guy can get you reloaded fast 

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=581487547745466

 

[twostepn2001]

 

[Tubacase47]

Wylie finally met his match with an ACME product.

[Gearclash]

Educate me as to why climbing hills with a steam tractor was a challenge?  I’ve heard of it before but never understood what created the challenge.  Thanks!

[hardtail]

I'm thinking it was twofold, displayed the torque but maybe moreso displayed that it didn't blow up with the water level, I would think there would be rumors from horse people that those new things were dangerous, there were accidents and one of the reasons Alberta and other provinces created the boilers branch

[iowaboy1965]

I'm guessing Lance is on the right track, but I don't really know either. I do know that if the water level got too low the boiler sheet or parts of the boiler that were above water would get too hot and when water hit them from change in front to back tilt of the boiler, water could flash to steam at a rate the safety valve could not dump fast enough and boiler explosions would or could occur. Don't know if that had anything to do with the hill climb display or not. Roger and Gary can tell us if we are on the right track or lost with a load of watermelons. 🙂

[Gearclash]

I was under the impression that somehow the slope hindered the ability to make steam (engine would stall on too much grade?).

Anyway I’m curious about the technical reason for this.  

[Absent Minded Farmer]

On an incline, you need to find a balance between stall, slip & oh ^*@#! Think that's the formula, anyhow.

As for the details of water level, I'm curious myself. If you're nosed up a 45º angle, your firebox should have plenty enough water behind it. The ends of the flue tubes up by the stack would be dry.

Mike

[hardtail]

Would probably depend on load also, could be at max pressure prior and expose some tubes and do the demo under low firing rate

Gary would know more

[jeeper61]

Russell tracked motor grader

[Absent Minded Farmer]

I was thinking this morning....

These little tea kettles would laugh at those inclines....

 

 

 

 

Mike

[jeeper61]

Good thing they have the cog or things would be very hair raising 

[Shell1066]

Didn't they just convert to diesels in the last year or so? Or they still running steam??

[Old Binder Guy]

On 10/27/2024 at 6:03 AM, Absent Minded Farmer said:

I was thinking this morning....

These little tea kettles would laugh at those inclines....

 

 

 

 

Mike

Mike, they might laugh at the inclines but you are comparing apples to oranges. Cogs make the difference. And if you could somehow make the drive wheels on a traction engine the size of these, on good footing, they'd try to climb straight into the air.  Gary

[Absent Minded Farmer]

7 hours ago, Old Binder Guy said:

Mike, they might laugh at the inclines but you are comparing apples to oranges. Cogs make the difference. And if you could somehow make the drive wheels on a traction engine the size of these, on good footing, they'd try to climb straight into the air.  Gary

No argument here, Gary. A traction engine would keep climbing. But.... not with a standard boiler orientation. That's where troubles can arise.

The rack steamers don't have that issue.

Which brings up a good question.

How long can a horizontal boiler work at 45º+?

Mike

[jeeper61]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:32 PM, Shell1066 said:

Didn't they just convert to diesels in the last year or so? Or they still running steam??

Yes been running them for awhile 

From their website

In 2008, after 139 years as a steam railway, the Cog took a giant step into the future. We haven’t looked back ever since.

Over 150 years ago, Sylvester Marsh, a modern man of his era, chose the nineteenth century’s state of the art transportation technology to power his unique railway. That was, of course, the steam locomotive, and today, inspired by his spirit of innovation, the modern Cog Railway is doing the same!

When we rolled M1 out of our engine shop in 2008, it marked the beginning of a new era on Mount Washington. The first operational diesel powered locomotive in our history was designed primarily by mechanical engineer Al Laprade (seen in the green shirt at left) and General Manager Charley Kenison (in blue), and was built entirely on-site by the Cog’s shop crew at a cost of $750,000.

Senior Engineer Phil Beroney had the honor of running M1 to the summit for its ceremonial first passenger trip. Proudly wearing its temporary livery Wajo Nanatasis (Mountain Hummingbird in Abenaki) M1 performed flawlessly, and continues as one of our diesel workhorses today.

With the overwhelming success of M1, we ramped up production and averaged the introduction of one new locomotive every 18 months. In 2019, we completed construction of M7, our seventh biodiesel locomotive.

Each of these robust machines is powered by a 600hp John Deere marine engine governed by a computerized operating system. Hydraulic pressure delivers a maximum of 30,000 ft-lbs. of torque to each of two drive cogs beneath the locomotive, pulling the train up the mountain. A redundant air brake system ensures positive braking and parking when needed, but in normal operations, hydraulic pressure is also used to bring the train back down to Marshfield Base Station.

More economical, easier to maintain and environmentally friendlier, it takes anywhere from 18-22 gallons of biodiesel fuel to complete the nearly 7 mile round trip. By comparison, our steam locomotives consume 1000 gallons of water and a ton of coal to make the same trip.

With the completion of the M7 and the continuing use of two completely refurbished steam locomotives, we now operate the largest fleet of locomotives in service in the history of the railway. And M8 is already in the pipeline!

We are exceedingly proud of our fleet of biodiesel locomotives. These powerful machines are leading the way for the Cog to continue to provide one of the world's great rail adventures in the 21st century and beyond.

 

 

 

[Mike H]

At the Quincy mine they are running a cog system for mine tours

it takes you from ground level down the side of the hill to enter at level 5

below level 5 it is flooded so no access

https://quincymine.com/

 

[Old Binder Guy]

On 10/29/2024 at 5:43 AM, Absent Minded Farmer said:

No argument here, Gary. A traction engine would keep climbing. But.... not with a standard boiler orientation. That's where troubles can arise.

The rack steamers don't have that issue.

Which brings up a good question.

How long can a horizontal boiler work at 45º+?

Mike

As long as it needs to. The locomotive above would be dangerous in the configuration shown. It would be so easy to blow it up on level ground. Below are a few examples of what low water on crown sheets happens. "Explosive" is a mild term to use for what happens with a low water situation. And it is seldom ever a happy ending for the operator or fireman. Gary

[Absent Minded Farmer]

To change up the subject a touch....

Gary, where do you guys source your cylinder oil? It was suggested I use that to loosen up some non rubberized flat belts I just acquired.

Maybe you know of something better for the job? Think the belts are just cotton duck.

Mike

[jeeper61]

 

[hardtail]

TD14 wide track in the Palouse?