electromics in modern tractors

[acem]

14 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Yes, I’m 20 miles from there. 

My wife lived near Leavenworth in her previous life. Her ex husband still does.  Her daughter (my stepdaughter) graduated from Weston?.

Pretty in those parts of Kansas and Missouri. Lots of hills and good looking farmland.

Way too many people for my tastes just south of there in KC. But we visit there occasionally. She still has friends and family up there.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

25 minutes ago, acem said:

My wife lived near Leavenworth in her previous life. Her ex husband still does.  Her daughter (my stepdaughter) graduated from Weston?.

Pretty in those parts of Kansas and Missouri. Lots of hills and good looking farmland.

Way too many people for my tastes just south of there in KC. But we visit there occasionally. She still has friends and family up there.

Weston is just across the river in Missouri. I spent lots and lots of time in Weston when we raised tobacco. That was where we sold it. 

[acem]

Then I may have the wrong name. I think it was on the Kansas side.

She was a a teenager and thought we were overly restrictive so she moved up with her dad for her senior year. He lives south of Leavenworth. She went to a rural school. I remember the going to the graduation. Seems like the school was in the country, on top of a hill?

She moved back down this way shortly after graduation. She knew it all. If you've had teenagers you know what I'm talking about ..

Funny how perspectives change after a few years of experience!!!

[acem]

Talked to my neighbor today. 

They fight out the problem. There is a computer board in the armrest. It was giving trouble. Replaced it as all is good now.

Seems odd to me your armrest needs a computer???

[New Englander]

7 hours ago, acem said:

Seems odd to me your armrest needs a computer???

Modules all over vehicles now. They all talk with one another via a digital bus - CAN , LIN, etc. It may have had nothing to do with the problem but was pulling the bus down stopping communication maybe.

[SDman]

9 hours ago, acem said:

Talked to my neighbor today. 

They fight out the problem. There is a computer board in the armrest. It was giving trouble. Replaced it as all is good now.

Seems odd to me your armrest needs a computer???

Every big red tractor since 2000 has an armrest computer....MX Magnums since late 1998 and STX Steigers since 2000 all have them. In all honesty, armrest controllers are probably one of the bigger problems we have with the CaseIH system of that vintage.

Your "command" as an operator is read by the armrest computer, and that message is placed on the CanBus communications network to another controller to carry out the command. IE, you want to shift the tractor's transmission up one gear....you shift the upshift button/switch on the gearshift on the armrest controller....the armrest controller reads that message...it places a message on the CanBus that the operator wants the tractor to shift up one gear....the transmission controller sees this request....it shifts the transmission up one gear. Same thing happens with throttle increase/decrease, hydraulic remote functions, etc.

As far as controllers go, many of the controllers on CaseIH/CNH tractors previous to Tier IV tractors starting in 2011 are NLA from parts. There is a place in Racine you can send them to for repair, but you have to go through a dealer. I assume this place is operated by former CaseIH/CNH people who built these components back in the day?

There's also Briezelec(sp?) in Canada that offers controller repair...we've had good luck with them....they also have a location in the Twin Cities. Ag Express doesn't seem to do well with CNH controllers anymore....we've had limited success with them.

As far as Deere, my son works for my old neighbor at our farm where I grew up at. His tractor(9220 Deere?) lost its autosteer function this spring. The dealership determined that it needed an autosteer valve that was NLA from Deere anymore. They ended up finding one at a salvage yard several states away as all the local yards said that was the first thing that gets sold out of a newer Deere 4wd that gets salvaged, so its not just a CNH problem.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

32 minutes ago, SDman said:

Every big red tractor since 2000 has an armrest computer....MX Magnums since late 1998 and STX Steigers since 2000 all have them. In all honesty, armrest controllers are probably one of the bigger problems we have with the CaseIH system of that vintage.

Your "command" as an operator is read by the armrest computer, and that message is placed on the CanBus communications network to another controller to carry out the command. IE, you want to shift the tractor's transmission up one gear....you shift the upshift button/switch on the gearshift on the armrest controller....the armrest controller reads that message...it places a message on the CanBus that the operator wants the tractor to shift up one gear....the transmission controller sees this request....it shifts the transmission up one gear. Same thing happens with throttle increase/decrease, hydraulic remote functions, etc.

As far as controllers go, many of the controllers on CaseIH/CNH tractors previous to Tier IV tractors starting in 2011 are NLA from parts. There is a place in Racine you can send them to for repair, but you have to go through a dealer. I assume this place is operated by former CaseIH/CNH people who built these components back in the day?

There's also Briezelec(sp?) in Canada that offers controller repair...we've had good luck with them....they also have a location in the Twin Cities. Ag Express doesn't seem to do well with CNH controllers anymore....we've had limited success with them.

As far as Deere, my son works for my old neighbor at our farm where I grew up at. His tractor(9220 Deere?) lost its autosteer function this spring. The dealership determined that it needed an autosteer valve that was NLA from Deere anymore. They ended up finding one at a salvage yard several states away as all the local yards said that was the first thing that gets sold out of a newer Deere 4wd that gets salvaged, so its not just a CNH problem.

I think back to what I used to think of autosteer when I hear stuff like this. Now, I would have to really think about buying a tractor if I knew autosteer was going to be an issue.
 

 

[Big Bud guy]

12 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I think back to what I used to think of autosteer when I hear stuff like this. Now, I would have to really think about buying a tractor if I knew autosteer was going to be an issue.
 

 

I don’t consider that a death sentence necessarily because you can always put an ATU or other bolt on auto steer device on something like that 9220 to get by.  That’s what our 9420 had.  

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

42 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I don’t consider that a death sentence necessarily because you can always put an ATU or other bolt on auto steer device on something like that 9220 to get by.  That’s what our 9420 had.  

I have an Ag Leader system in an older tractor. It works well. 

[acem]

You can still use the tractor with the steering wheel right?

Or is the tractor disabled when the valve goes out?

My neighbor was able to drive his tractor but the planter wouldn't function.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

1 hour ago, acem said:

You can still use the tractor with the steering wheel right?

Or is the tractor disabled when the valve goes out?

My neighbor was able to drive his tractor but the planter wouldn't function.

The ones I have seen fail, the steering wheel still will steer. Usually the tractor will only steer in one direction when auto steer is activated when a valve fails. 

[SDman]

5 hours ago, acem said:

You can still use the tractor with the steering wheel right?

Or is the tractor disabled when the valve goes out?

My neighbor was able to drive his tractor but the planter wouldn't function.

Tractor steers fine manually.....just have to use the steering wheel, which brings me to this comment. I can remember in 2003-2004 when AutoSteer first came out, I had customers who told me they would quit farming before they would ever buy a tractor that steers itself; wind the clock ahead to 2026 and now those same customers will not even operate a tractor with a non-working AutoSteer system, despite the fact that they have a fully functioning steering wheel a foot in front of them. My how times have changed...

Just to give you an idea of the electronics communication system in a modern tractor, I'll post the diagram of said communications system found on a new AFS Connect Magnum below. 6 CanBus systems all in the same tractor.

[Diesel Doctor]

On 5/15/2026 at 10:35 AM, pt756 said:

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On 5/18/2026 at 5:50 AM, New Englander said:

Trouble shooting now requires having the service data, a knowledge of how the system works, the tooling, and the skill. It requires a logical approach, not shotgunning parts. The Pep Boys "mechanics" may get away with throwing a part at your car that their code reader says is broken but on an expensive and complex machine that approach just isn't feasible. 

What ever happened to the Deere "right to repair" lawsuit that was in the news a few years back?

You never replace a part until you have verified it is bad.

If I was a lot younger, I would do nothing but diagnostics.

If I was doing it, I would be the best at it and would be the on call guy for the ones no one can solve.

Ivan at Pine Hollow Automotive in Pennsylvania is one of those people with vehicles.

He has the software, wiring schematics, brains and ability to find the smallest problem that bring many machines to their knees. 

Many of his fixes are, "No parts required".

Just a bad wire.

When your back is up against the wall, and you will, "Pee on a spark plug" to get it running, you will pay for the best. 

 

[Big Bud guy]

Speaking of electronics and arm rests here is a Big Bud my dealer took in on trade and someone grafted a JD armrest on it.  This tractor has been extensively modified with a Cummins QSX 15, Clark powershift and set up to run an air drill with high flow hydraulics and some sort of GPS screen in the cab.

 

 

[SDman]

3 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

 

You never replace a part until you have verified it is bad.

If I was a lot younger, I would do nothing but diagnostics.

If I was doing it, I would be the best at it and would be the on call guy for the ones no one can solve.

Ivan at Pine Hollow Automotive in Pennsylvania is one of those people with vehicles.

He has the software, wiring schematics, brains and ability to find the smallest problem that bring many machines to their knees. 

Many of his fixes are, "No parts required".

Just a bad wire.

When your back is up against the wall, and you will, "Pee on a spark plug" to get it running, you will pay for the best. 

 

And the bad thing about this.....is NOBODY WANTS TO PAY FOR DIAGNOSTIC TIME!!!! OEMs don't, customers don't, salesmen don't, and dealerships don't. THAT is the reason why we have the "parts cannon" philosophy so prevalent today....in the eyes of the customer, if a tech is replacing parts, he is accomplishing something; if he is scratching his head while trying to read a wiring schematic, using a computer to read/interpret codes, or using a multimeter to check wiring issues, he's "not getting anything done". Until the customer's mentality changes on this, its not going to change.

I've used this scenario for over 30 years, and its still true today. If it costs an OEM $50 in labor to replace a $5000 part under warranty, they will gladly pay that claim every time. However, if it costs them $5000 in labor to replace a $50 part......somebody is out to cheat the OEM out of a lot of $$$. They will try to cut that labor bill on that claim with an ax, because there's no way you should have that much labor involved in replacing a rather cheap part.

My employer has an efficiency program for its technicians....many repair places have something similar. In terms of simplicity, its dividing your billed hours by your paid hours. The problem I have with these programs is that if the technician works on something three times before it is fixed properly, as long as he can bill those hours by writing a heck of a story, he's rewarded for misdiagnosing it the first two times. However, if another technician takes more time to do a thorough job, but he fixed it right the first time, that technician is penalized for "taking too long" to do the job. Let me ask you.....which tech do you want working on your machine?

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I thought about this thread today. The auto steer will not function in one of our sprayers. We do not have it completely diagnosed yet, but I suspect that the valve is bad. It’s over $4,000 and on back order from Deere. That’s nice. 

[acem]

27 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I thought about this thread today. The auto steer will not function in one of our sprayers. We do not have it completely diagnosed yet, but I suspect that the valve is bad. It’s over $4,000 and on back order from Deere. That’s nice. 

I expect a good hydraulic shop can repair your valve.

The shop I use has lathes and all kinds of capabilities. They even custom build stuff. High per hour but usually cheap per job kinda place.

You should have some of these shops near KC with all the manufacturing there.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

26 minutes ago, acem said:

I expect a good hydraulic shop can repair your valve.

The shop I use has lathes and all kinds of capabilities. They even custom build stuff. High per hour but usually cheap per job kinda place.

You should have some of these shops near KC with all the manufacturing there.

There is some dealer stock out there. The closest one is almost 5 hours away in Nebraska. I imagine we will just go get that one, if we determine that it is bad. If, they will sell it to an unknown customer.

[acem]

When you make  a living with 40+ year old tractors, combines, etc like me, buying a new valve is not normally an option 

I have repaired many hydraulic valves. Usually it's a bad O Ring.

Reseal the entire valve.   

Usually the o rings are N Buna. 70 Duro for stationary applications. 90 Duro where there may be any movement.

Ideally you can spec them from your parts book. Otherwise use the cone of knowledge.

 

[Diesel Doctor]

18 hours ago, SDman said:

And the bad thing about this.....is NOBODY WANTS TO PAY FOR DIAGNOSTIC TIME!!!! OEMs don't, customers don't, salesmen don't, and dealerships don't. THAT is the reason why we have the "parts cannon" philosophy so prevalent today....in the eyes of the customer, if a tech is replacing parts, he is accomplishing something; if he is scratching his head while trying to read a wiring schematic, using a computer to read/interpret codes, or using a multimeter to check wiring issues, he's "not getting anything done". Until the customer's mentality changes on this, its not going to change.

I've used this scenario for over 30 years, and its still true today. If it costs an OEM $50 in labor to replace a $5000 part under warranty, they will gladly pay that claim every time. However, if it costs them $5000 in labor to replace a $50 part......somebody is out to cheat the OEM out of a lot of $$$. They will try to cut that labor bill on that claim with an ax, because there's no way you should have that much labor involved in replacing a rather cheap part.

My employer has an efficiency program for its technicians....many repair places have something similar. In terms of simplicity, its dividing your billed hours by your paid hours. The problem I have with these programs is that if the technician works on something three times before it is fixed properly, as long as he can bill those hours by writing a heck of a story, he's rewarded for misdiagnosing it the first two times. However, if another technician takes more time to do a thorough job, but he fixed it right the first time, that technician is penalized for "taking too long" to do the job. Let me ask you.....which tech do you want working on your machine?

I hear every word you are saying.

When the owner has been deprived of a vehicle or other piece of machinery for a long time, there is pressure on the dealer to get it running, NOW!

People need to understand that diagnostic time can fix things and is far better than a tractor gathering dust at the dealership.

When a tech gets that good, and gains a reputation, that tech will be in high demand for the tough cases.

When the tech comes and fixes the issue, isn't it worth it?

Or would the dealer rather make excuses because none of his people can fix it?

This is today, like it or not!

 

 

 

 

[Binderoid]

Anyone who thought a Farmall  was frighteningly distant  technology  was not going to buy one anyway....  most of them were firmly  entrenched with horses.

There will  always be people who destroy  things with  complacency  or carelessness. 

 

[ray54]

This was discussed by the AC tractor people, and an old guy 70 Ish like me says some young whipper snapper will start building circuit boards and other electronics to revie today's tractors.  I was in college back just before the personal computer was a thing. But the University had a hard wired computer that was as big as most houses. Data was input with punch cards. The AG Econ professors had it in their heads everybody would soon be "writing code" or inventing your own software. So to be ahead of this curve they had a basic code writing class we had to take. Basically writing 2 + 2 = 4 which took a stack of cards 6 to 8 inches thick. Obviously not my thing. But he had the same start, and it was his thing, as he has made a living from computers. He claims to have some very old computers still working as he knows both code and circuit boards. So I can see the 2 or 3 minds per million people could be able to make some of this computer whiz-bang stuff work just because. Not that the money will make it common. But I can see as time goes on a few rear people will understand and be able to keep an example or 2 from today going in 75 to 100 years. 😉 If the ice caps don't melt and flood the world we know, anyway.

[Binderoid]

13 hours ago, ray54 said:

 If the ice caps don't melt and flood the world we know, anyway.

You know they're going to. The world  has ended every  13 years  since  Ted Danson.

[Little Red]

3 hours ago, Binderoid said:

You know they're going to. The world  has ended every  13 years  since  Ted Danson.

Just another bs story claimed by the elites. Fill a cup with water fill it the rest of the way with ice until water is just about ready to overflow, leave it sit until ice melts, cup doesn’t overflow 🤔

[ray54]

😉As the world turns. My first introduction to climate change was the world was cooling in about 1970-74.🤔 Then they flipped the story in the mid 1970's and we have been melting that ice ever since. 😵‍💫An rich people are still buying beach houses.🤔 How did they ever get a dollar saved being that dumb.