February 1, 1964 Boeing 727 enters service

[New Englander]

Boeing ended up building almost 1900 of them. I worked on 100s, QCs, the quick change cargo passenger version of the 100, 200s and finally 200As. There were also big engine versions for the South America routes. Every airline's version was a little different.

Jurassic now. They went from front line passenger to cargo to the scrap yard. 

[from H to 80]

Eastern, that was the first of my three plane rides,might have been a 727,that was around 1978.

[Red Flyer]

Started out as the oiler on B727.

[acem]

I rode many miles in 727s.

I guess age and noise issues did them in.

[New Englander]

1 hour ago, acem said:

I rode many miles in 727s.

I guess age and noise issues did them in.

Yeah, that and more. Operating expenses for three engines and three front end crew. The 727 was the last with a flight engineer. 
 

When I flew for Kollsman they had worked up a new two man cockpit and proposed it to FedEx. FedEx though declined as the planes were otherwise approaching the end of a practical service life and newer more efficient planes were coming off front line passenger service.

[Big Bud guy]

Wasn’t the 727 the one DB Cooper hijacked and bailed out of?

[just Dave]

3 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Wasn’t the 727 the one DB Cooper hijacked and bailed out of?

Yes , the 727 had the drop down stair under the tail, pretty much the only large commercial jet you could skydive out of without big danger of hitting tail or engine. 
The drop stairs were sealed up after that, at least on TWA 727s.

[oleman]

I always liked being a passenger on a  727. Pacific Southwest Air lines ran commuter service all up and down the California coast in the 60's to 80's and if I remember correctly mostly all their planes were 727. San Diego (actually all California) had Military constantly going and coming at that time. We nick named (PSA) POOR SAILERS AIRLINE. They had hourly flights, at discounted Military ticket prices to most major cites in Ca.  A round trip ticket from San Diego to LA was about $25. and  seats always available on a 1 hour notice.    Another commuter plane I liked was the DC9, Republic Airlines ran a service from Minneapolis to Phoenix to Oakland to Seattle (they skipped Portland)  Friendly Air Line they always made a sight seeing tour around Crater Lake on a flight to Seattle, another low budget operation. 

     

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

New Englander, how many 727 do you estimate are still in service around the world?

[New Englander]

1 hour ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

New Englander, how many 727 do you estimate are still in service around the world?

I don’t know but probably few. I last saw some in active service in Africa a few years ago and there are some jump planes still for the huge formation jumps because of the aft air stair door. The latest vomit zero G is a 727 200. I suspect there’s a few other specialty uses too. At EAL we had 100s with nose wheel brakes that could make some very short stops. Three engines make for a good short field plane as all of your takeoff calculations are base upon loosing an engine at V1. A very rough rule of thumb is that loosing an engine on a twin means you loose half your thrust and two thirds your performance. Loosing one engine on a triple means you lose one third your thrust and half your performance. I’ve been lucky and the bulk of my time and the only engine failure I’ve ever experienced was on a triple engine plane. Loosing the center engine on a mid weight TO was such a non-event that it still required a power reduction to stay below the 250kt limit.

[New Englander]

20 hours ago, just Dave said:

Yes , the 727 had the drop down stair under the tail, pretty much the only large commercial jet you could skydive out of without big danger of hitting tail or engine. 
The drop stairs were sealed up after that, at least on TWA 727s.

Some DC 9s also have a rear air stair door.

After the DB Cooper affair a simple vane was installed that caught the slipstream in flight and positioned a stop across the door. Once on the ground again the lock moved out of the way. The DB Cooper vane as it became known was an elegant mechanical fix.

[just Dave]

So how about the DC10. They were a short lived passenger plane, due to the engines falling off. Now they seem to be using them for freight, and still the engines are falling off. 

[Rick G.]

Over the years I’ve flown on TWA, EASTERN, AMERICAN, and NORTHWEST ORIENT 727s. 

The TWA bird was brand spanking new. The Captain announced to us that the plane was brand new and in its first week of service with TWA. That was pretty cool. 

[New Englander]

20 hours ago, just Dave said:

So how about the DC10. They were a short lived passenger plane, due to the engines falling off. Now they seem to be using them for freight, and still the engines are falling off. 

I doubt there are any left flying as even the freighters were long in the tooth. The engine that fell off and killed everyone near Chicago years ago was due to bad maintenance. They tried to speed up engine changes by having a QEC (Quick Engine Change) built up with the engine already attached to a pylon. It was great in theory but they cracked a fitting when installing the assembly with a forklift causing its eventual failure. When the engine departed the plane it tore out the hydraulic lines to the leading edge devices and at that time all that held them out was hydraulic pressure. They retracted on that wing leaving the plane uncontrollable. The DC10s were modified so the slats locked out and required hydraulic pressure on the retract line to actually retract.

DC10s were in passenger service from 1971 to 2014 although most had retired from the major US airlines earlier or shifted to freight. The major airlines were moving away from 3 engine planes as the newer twin engine planes were more economical to operate. The availability of the new engines making that possible. Freighters are usually maxed out in both weight and volume so the higher operating costs are more acceptable.

The engine that just fell off the follow-on MD11 may also be attributable to a maintenance issue. The failed bearing that the pylon attaches to the wing structure was known to crack but wasn't considered a safety issue as it was assumed to be visible migrating before it was un-airworthy. In retrospect we sadly know what assume means. Engines have to be able to move and if you've ever sat in a window seat near an engine you probably witnessed it.

[twostepn2001]

20 hours ago, Rick G. said:

The Captain announced to us that the plane was brand new and in its first week of service with TWA.

Hey Rick did it have that "new airplane smell" like new cars have that"new car smell"??   Just kiddin' ya!!

[just Dave]

On 2/10/2026 at 6:18 AM, New Englander said:

I doubt there are any left flying as even the freighters were long in the tooth. The engine that fell off and killed everyone near Chicago years ago was due to bad maintenance. They tried to speed up engine changes by having a QEC (Quick Engine Change) built up with the engine already attached to a pylon. It was great in theory but they cracked a fitting when installing the assembly with a forklift causing its eventual failure. When the engine departed the plane it tore out the hydraulic lines to the leading edge devices and at that time all that held them out was hydraulic pressure. They retracted on that wing leaving the plane uncontrollable. The DC10s were modified so the slats locked out and required hydraulic pressure on the retract line to actually retract.

DC10s were in passenger service from 1971 to 2014 although most had retired from the major US airlines earlier or shifted to freight. The major airlines were moving away from 3 engine planes as the newer twin engine planes were more economical to operate. The availability of the new engines making that possible. Freighters are usually maxed out in both weight and volume so the higher operating costs are more acceptable.

The engine that just fell off the follow-on MD11 may also be attributable to a maintenance issue. The failed bearing that the pylon attaches to the wing structure was known to crack but wasn't considered a safety issue as it was assumed to be visible migrating before it was un-airworthy. In retrospect we sadly know what assume means. Engines have to be able to move and if you've ever sat in a window seat near an engine you probably witnessed it.

Isn’t the MD11 just a rebranded DC10 with a few changes? They certainly look alike from a distance.

[New Englander]

17 hours ago, just Dave said:

Isn’t the MD11 just a rebranded DC10 with a few changes? They certainly look alike from a distance.

A follow-on. MD11 is stretched, heavier, with bigger engines, winglets, reinforced structure and landing gear, and a two-man crew, It's more efficient and has a lower crew cost. They're known to require strict handling - rotation  and flare angles more so than other types. Yes very similar looking and based on the original DC10 but lots of differences.

While commuting to Anchorage I changed planes in SEA and a commuting FedEx pilot sat next to me. We had a great conversation about drones as he'd just gotten into them and saw a possible business that could extend after his eventual forced retirement. We talked about the MD11 handling issue in flare as FedEx had crashed one in EWR a few years before. Just a few days later while I was on a layover in Beijing I heard that an MD11 had crashed in Tokyo. Some time later I read that similar to the NJ crash a bounce and porpoise was the cause. 

EDIT, why a two man crew is important to the bottom line: With salary, benefits, training, commuting, and other costs each additional crew member can easily cost over a half million dollars/year. One can see why more automated cockpits are attractive. When I was flying for Kollsman their proposal to FedEx for automating the 727 cockpit and eliminating the FE touted the savings. The 727s though were already getting long in the tooth and the three engine configuration was another high cost area.

 

Edited February 18 by New Englander
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