86 series introduction. 50 years ago today.

[TroyDairy]

I have read that dealers were not real impressed at 1st at the release.  Still same old powertrain as all the competitors had PS trans of some fashion by then.   You who were around recall that?

[Alan Dinan]

33 minutes ago, TroyDairy said:

I have read that sealers were not real impressed at 1st at the release.  Still same old powertrain as all the competitors had PS trans of some fashion by then.   You who were around recall that?

The local mechanic knew that there was a series change coming when he started seeing metric bolts on the last 66 series coming into the dealership. This was before they started talking about the new 86’s.

Or maybe that was the 86 to 88 series.

[acem]

The 86 series sold like hotcakes in eastern and other crop growing regions of Arkansas untill 1980. The 66 series had been extremely popular too.

People liked the 66 series and was glad to get the nice cab. 

I don't remember any real complaints about the 86 series when I was a kid in the 70s, except paying for them. Power shifts were suspect here in the 70s. Many of the early power shifts in the 60s gave alot of troubles with our hard use. TAs too.

The JD Sound Guard cab came to the market first and is excellent but I like the 86 cab better.

I remember sitting in the new 86 series cabs while dad was in the dealership getting parts. They were so nice!

Then a few years later they started coming in with Western interior!!! 

 

[acem]

I have several 86 series tractors plus an 88.

Running. 886, 1086, 1486.

In need of various repairs. 886, Hydro 186, and (2) 1486.

All are open center hydraulics.

Guess I need a 986 and 1586 to complete the initial large frame fleet!

[Big Bud guy]

5 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

I have read that sealers were not real impressed at 1st at the release.  Still same old powertrain as all the competitors had PS trans of some fashion by then.   You who were around recall that?

They should have put cardboard around the 88 series instead of the 86 series

[Big Bud guy]

11 minutes ago, acem said:

The 86 series sold like hotcakes in eastern and other crop growing regions of Arkansas untill 1980. The 66 series had been extremely popular too.

People liked the 66 series and was glad to get the nice cab. 

I don't remember any real complaints about the 86 series when I was a kid in the 70s, except paying for them. Power shifts were suspect here in the 70s. Many of the early power shifts in the 60s gave alot of troubles with our hard use. TAs too.

The JD Sound Guard cab came to the market first and is excellent but I like the 86 cab better.

I remember sitting in the new 86 series cabs while dad was in the dealership getting parts. They were so nice!

Then a few years later they started coming in with Western interior!!! 

 

I can count on one hand how many 86 series I’ve seen around here and all but one of them were sitting on a green lot.  Friend of mine on a ranch uses one but he also uses a 4020 too.  They have their places.  I can and could make a living with an 86 series if I had to.  When I first opened and started reading this thread I forgot how late the 86 series came onto the market and my thought was only a year later, the 40 series would come out 

[dale560]

Somewhere around here I have a picture of my dad in front of his 1586 on the dealer lot new.  The 86 and the 88s sold fairly well here and to the east. There were certain John Deere pockets 40 years ago. But the east part of state was John Deere, Case, IH and the odd ford. The western part of North Dakota was Oliver white Minnie mo, case and ih country with spattering of John Deere. Now it is John Deere with case ih quad tracks everywhere.

[acem]

I have been told by several old timers that IH substantially outsold JD before the 1980. The early 80s were a terrible time in Arkansas Agricultural. Too many IH dealers went out of business for various reasons.

JD certainly outsells CIH in Arkansas now.

[Big Bud guy]

2 minutes ago, acem said:

I have been told by several old timers that IH substantially outsold JD before the 1980. 

Those old timers must have been still stuck in M/H days. It’s a well known fact IH lost their lead in the early 60s and I can even look it up in IH books that say so.  IH was a strong number 2 to JD from the 60s on just like how JD was a strong number 2 to IH before that although JD dropped to 3 for a few years when the ford 8n was selling like hotcakes 

[acem]

10 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Those old timers must have been still stuck in M/H days. It’s a well known fact IH lost their lead in the early 60s and I can even look it up in IH books that say so.  IH was a strong number 2 to JD from the 60s on just like how JD was a strong number 2 to IH before that although JD dropped to 3 for a few years when the ford 8n was selling like hotcakes 

I realize JD passed IH overall in the 60s.

But IH did very well in Arkansas up until 1980s. They had a bigger dealer network and very strong sales, in Arkansas.

I have no access to the actual sales numbers but a visual estimation at the time showed more IH to JD.

After the mid 80s, it seems everyone except JD and CIH was all but gone from eastern Arkansas (crop area).

Western and northern Arkansas is very different and has a different mix.

 

 

[acem]

And as a side note.

Most all 06/56/66 series IH tractors were open station or ROPS. 86 series was mostly Cabs but there were many ROPS. Even seen 5x88 and Magnum ROPS.

Almost all 10&20 series JD were open station or ROPS.  Lots of fender or ROPS  30 series JD but probably over half were cabs. ROPS were still common on 40 series JD but the cab was at least 75%. Ive seen 4960 JDs with ROPS.

The IH 1x66 with 2 post ROPS are still very well liked for open station tractors. There's a sweet potato farm in Louisiana that runs over 50.

Sorry, no pics for now.

[Big Bud guy]

44 minutes ago, acem said:

I realize JD passed IH overall in the 60s.

But IH did very well in Arkansas up until 1980s. They had a bigger dealer network and very strong sales, in Arkansas.

I have no access to the actual sales numbers but a visual estimation at the time showed more IH to JD.

After the mid 80s, it seems everyone except JD and CIH was all but gone from eastern Arkansas (crop area).

Western and northern Arkansas is very different and has a different mix.

 

 

I can say the same thing here but opposite. I’d say IH was at its peak here in the 50s.  The W9 series was everywhere, so was their TD crawlers.  A lot of farms even had a Farmall like us.  The green dealers around here had to bring on Cat just to compete with the IH dealers and their crawlers. But then all started to change in the 60s similar to the overall scene across the US. It got to the point that my nearest IH dealer only made it through the 80s selling Versatile tractors and equipment.  They never did bother trying to push IH’s own 4x4s because they knew they were inferior.  (No offense)

[Sledgehammer]

Overall sales and regional sales were completely different. Even when green outsold red over all (noted above) there were pockets of Massey, Oliver, MM, and AC domination. It depended on dealership location and service to an extent. I would say Orange and Red outsold Green here in the 70's. We had (still have) all three dealers in town. No AC dealer but they still service and sell lots of parts for the pumpkins. They are NH/Massey now. JD has a good showing locally now and the Red dealer still does a fair amount of business. Lots of NH tractors out there in this area now but the Massey's have never really taken hold. 

[1480x3]

1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I can say the same thing here but opposite. I’d say IH was at its peak here in the 50s.  The W9 series was everywhere, so was their TD crawlers.  A lot of farms even had a Farmall like us.  The green dealers around here had to bring on Cat just to compete with the IH dealers and their crawlers. But then all started to change in the 60s similar to the overall scene across the US. It got to the point that my nearest IH dealer only made it through the 80s selling Versatile tractors and equipment.  They never did bother trying to push IH’s own 4x4s because they knew they were inferior.  (No offense)

1975   There were 11 IH dealers within an hour of my house, 5 of them were less than 30 minutes & of those 5 three were only 15 minutes. On the JDs  nearest dealer 30 minutes with 3 more right at an hour.   IH 06, 56, & 66 sold new all over our area on 200 to 300 acre crop/livestock farms. Our next door neighbor was JD & was the only farm i know to buy a new 20 series, a 4020. JD were top sales nation wide but I cant recall a new 30, 50, 55, or 60 series bought new. But i know of three  40 series bought new. New 86 series sold well but i cant recall a single 88 series sold new,  the IH dealers were mostly gone even before the merger around here & JD became the  "local" dealer by default. JD 30 to 60 series moved in as used tractors & laid the foundation for a strong JD presence today however there are a lot of magnums around. 

[dale560]

Not to change the subject much but do you guys remember the used machines being gone through when traded not like now. Back in the 70s and mid 80s the local jD dealer was repainting the faded 30 series and fixing them up as needed. They would rebuild the press drills like all new discs and combines were field ready when sold used. New rasp bars , good concaves and chains. The IH dealer used to repaint the sheet metal on the axial flow combines. This was in 1985 they used to have the tin off the combines sanding and respray the panels. I don’t remember them repainting tractors like JD but the case dealer in the late 80s resprayed the orange on every tractor. Just different things to sell equipment back then now it’s just plopped on lot and sold as is.

[oldtech]

This seems a bit late to me.  I quit at the end of 86 and I still remember test driving a 1086.  Something I doubt I would have done that year given that I had my auction in November.

I could be wrong but Id put it 83 or 84 when I first saw one.

[766 Man]

9 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

I have read that dealers were not real impressed at 1st at the release.  Still same old powertrain as all the competitors had PS trans of some fashion by then.   You who were around recall that?

  I recall our IH dealer being very happy when the 86 series tractors came out.  They really liked the cab and from a shop standpoint there were fewer hours needed to do a split for clutch or TA.  

[766 Man]

1 hour ago, Sledgehammer said:

Overall sales and regional sales were completely different. Even when green outsold red over all (noted above) there were pockets of Massey, Oliver, MM, and AC domination. It depended on dealership location and service to an extent. I would say Orange and Red outsold Green here in the 70's. We had (still have) all three dealers in town. No AC dealer but they still service and sell lots of parts for the pumpkins. They are NH/Massey now. JD has a good showing locally now and the Red dealer still does a fair amount of business. Lots of NH tractors out there in this area now but the Massey's have never really taken hold. 

  AC was really strong in a lot of areas here and in quite a few instances out did IH and JD in tractor sales.  In most cases I would call those areas hard scrabble but that did not change the fact that AC had a winning formula with value price tractors and good dealer support.  

[Sledgehammer]

14 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  AC was really strong in a lot of areas here and in quite a few instances out did IH and JD in tractor sales.  In most cases I would call those areas hard scrabble but that did not change the fact that AC had a winning formula with value price tractors and good dealer support.  

Yeah, nobody ever accused an AC guy of being snobby like some of the other colors out there. You know the one... it starts with J and/or lots of ether, and ends with Deere and hard feelings.  

[oldtech]

15 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  AC was really strong in a lot of areas here and in quite a few instances out did IH and JD in tractor sales.  In most cases I would call those areas hard scrabble but that did not change the fact that AC had a winning formula with value price tractors and good dealer support.  

AC was kept alive by Gleaner.  The 190xt really hurt them.  Jack Daun in Chilton WI was a huge Gleaner dealer but sold really few tractors.  Ironically he and his new partner took over the IH dealer in the early 80s.  Today they are gone too.

I can count, Chief in Oshkosh,  Miller in St. Nazianz, Hingis and Chilton, C.J. Klienhans in Cablesport and Fond du Lac.  Theresa Implement and Weyers in Kaukauna.  Today Weyers is the only one left standing.

 

[766 Man]

4 minutes ago, oldtech said:

AC was kept alive by Gleaner.  The 190xt really hurt them.  Jack Daun in Chilton WI was a huge Gleaner dealer but sold really few tractors.  Ironically he and his new partner took over the IH dealer in the early 80s.  Today they are gone too.

I can count, Chief in Oshkosh,  Miller in St. Nazianz, Hingis and Chilton, C.J. Klienhans in Cablesport and Fond du Lac.  Theresa Implement and Weyers in Kaukauna.  Today Weyers is the only one left standing.

 

  Our local AC dealer relied on Gleaner heavily to make a profit but that was not true in many areas in NY.  Quite a few areas combine sales were very insignificant if any were sold at all.  190 XT and 200's did quite well here and the selling price was considerably less than a JD 4000 or IH 826.  The small dairies did not expose the greatest weakness which was holding up to many hours of heavy drawbar use.  They dug up enough ground to plant 15-20 acres of corn for silage but otherwise pulled a forage harvester and small square baler.  

[Lazy WP]

30 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  Our local AC dealer relied on Gleaner heavily to make a profit but that was not true in many areas in NY.  Quite a few areas combine sales were very insignificant if any were sold at all.  190 XT and 200's did quite well here and the selling price was considerably less than a JD 4000 or IH 826.  The small dairies did not expose the greatest weakness which was holding up to many hours of heavy drawbar use.  They dug up enough ground to plant 15-20 acres of corn for silage but otherwise pulled a forage harvester and small square baler.  

You guys all speak regionally!! Sandhills Equipment in Bassett Nebraska sold very few Gleaners, but had a tremendous tractor line right up until you couldn’t get an orange tractor. 
Anyone who says that Allis tractors died with the 190 have never run them. 
In the area of Nebraska that I grew up in, there were a lot more Allis than there were John Deere tractors. The only 4630 that I saw in that area, got shown up by an antiquated Cockshutt 570 Super. The 4630 was total garbage. Rearend was out, burned 13 gallon of fuel an hour and wouldn’t pull with the old Super. 
There were a few 06,56 and 66 series in the area, but I can’t recall any 86s until about 1986 when my buddy Dan bought his 1086 and his 1486. 
Even now I don’t think you can find 5 John Deere tractors within a 40 mile radius of my brothers place. 

[clay neubauer]

11 hours ago, Alan Dinan said:

The local mechanic knew that there was a series change coming when he started seeing metric bolts on the last 66 series coming into the dealership. This was before they started talking about the new 86’s.

Or maybe that was the 86 to 88 series.

The latter.   1981 model year 86 series had a decal on the frame rails saying something to the effect that "All hardware on bolster is metric."

[acem]

 

[766 Man]

  A good dealer can make customers happy plus make profit for themselves and the company they represent.  This happened with all brands.  Some had advantages over others given the area that they were doing business in.  Where price was king brands such as AC had the advantage.  When a farmer wanted to do all his business with one dealer brands such as JD and IH had the advantage especially if they were dairymen.  Some dealers were just good with people.  I was just reminded of that this past Saturday with a Case 1070 at a consignment auction with a Case dealer decal that I recognized as having a very strong presence in my area.