300 vs super m

[whweldit]

As said above almost every red farm in this area had an H or M to use.  Every farm had a super A.  In the 70’s we lost our great IH dealer and got great Massey/ford dealer.   By 1975 the area was mostly blue.  In 76 a cousin bought a new green 2040 (40 hp ish). Had 2 chicken houses and 40 acres pasture. To hear him talk about , you would think it would pull a 5/16 plow.   Storm came thru and shifted a 12 x 24 outbuilding off its foundation of rock pillars on his dad’s place.  They jacked building up and got some log skids under it to slide it back over. He was going to use his mighty 2040 since his dad only had a super A.  He came to dad and asked if we could bring our H up and help. He could only spin his wheels. Just too much for him.  Was in a tight area and knew our H would fit in place. Took it up and we were going to basically spin building on one end to get it back in place. Had plenty of chain to run under to one side and also chain on close side. Then pull with both tractors to spin. Got everything ready and hooked up. I was on H nd his son was on the Greenie. Just as we tightened the chains he killed the greenie. I moved the building back in place before he could restart and help.  Made cousin sick that our old H outdid his shiny 2040.   

[iowaboy1965]

On 5/21/2026 at 6:59 AM, Gearclash said:

You would wear out a pickup looking for 504s in this part of the world.  They don't exist here.  Lots of Hs, some 300s, a few 350s.  No 504s.  

Yup, I've seen one or 2 on Craigslist or market place. Think I was given a toy version of a 504 as a small child. But other than that I've never seen one in person in my area.

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  The vegetable farmer I mentioned with the 504 pulled 3 X 14 with his.  The H's around here on lighter ground pulled 2 X 14 and on really heavy ground 2 X 12 or in some cases 1 X 16.  The vegetable farmer also had an IH 37 8 ft disk that he pulled with the 504.  It was a tricycle gas tractor with fast hitch and unfortunately it burned up in a barn fire around 1976.  

These stories would be more believable if they were saying a 504 couldn’t hang with a M especially one that has been “overhauled”.

[766 Man]

11 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

I agree and I would have to see it to believe it.  There was several Hs around here and my uncle had one with a Farmhand.  I've never know anybody personally to claim the H was a powerhouse in the first place and yet guys are claiming it will out pull a tractor that has 50% more hp???  The H was only a 2 plow tractor and yet 504 cannot pull a 2 bottom plow as good or better?  BS, BS.   Only thing I can think of when the 504 came out, the newest Hs were 10 years old and there was probably a lot more that were older then that and so by the time many Hs had been overhauled with with fire craters kits like DFP is alluding to.  

  I think it would take more than an upgrade in pistons and sleeves to make an H equal to a 300 in power.  If I had to guess the 300 cylinder head had bigger ports and valves.  Probably would have to upgrade to a 300 carb.  Around here I doubt many did that to avoid buying a larger tractor to start with.  The early 1950's were prosperous enough that many added a M, Super M, or 400 to the stable with the H relegated to lighter work.  

[iowaboy1965]

Super H had the bigger carb or so I was told when I had a guy look at the carb when we were having trouble with it not running right a while back. Ended up not being a carb issue at all but I wanted someone to double check me.

Fil's super H is pretty stout.

[acem]

Probably the biggest load my 504 has done was a NH 273 square baler. It made hay just fine but not as fast as the 826.

Made her really bark!

The power steering, 3pt and live PTO are nice plus the grill matches my 706.

A friend has a 544 diesel hydro row crop with factory 2 post ROPS. Maybe I can get it someday...

[Big Bud guy]

15 hours ago, whweldit said:

As said above almost every red farm in this area had an H or M to use.  Every farm had a super A.  In the 70’s we lost our great IH dealer and got great Massey/ford dealer.   By 1975 the area was mostly blue.  In 76 a cousin bought a new green 2040 (40 hp ish). Had 2 chicken houses and 40 acres pasture. To hear him talk about , you would think it would pull a 5/16 plow.   Storm came thru and shifted a 12 x 24 outbuilding off its foundation of rock pillars on his dad’s place.  They jacked building up and got some log skids under it to slide it back over. He was going to use his mighty 2040 since his dad only had a super A.  He came to dad and asked if we could bring our H up and help. He could only spin his wheels. Just too much for him.  Was in a tight area and knew our H would fit in place. Took it up and we were going to basically spin building on one end to get it back in place. Had plenty of chain to run under to one side and also chain on close side. Then pull with both tractors to spin. Got everything ready and hooked up. I was on H nd his son was on the Greenie. Just as we tightened the chains he killed the greenie. I moved the building back in place before he could restart and help.  Made cousin sick that our old H outdid his shiny 2040.   

 

 

Back in 1982 we had a hail storm come through with baseball size hail stones.  Caused a lot of damage.  It caved in the roof of this lean to which was small work shop and generator room dating back to the 30s.  So dad decided to pull it away from the main building out to the dump. Tried the M first.  It pulled hard but couldn't quite do it.  So we had to get the 4640.  Guess we should have tried an H instead since they seem to be the tractor of the week that has ungodly horsepower.  

[Matt Kirsch]

On 5/21/2026 at 9:36 AM, MacAR said:

It's funny to me that most every Red farm has an H or M still doing -something- on the farm today. Might just be shuffling wagons or running a small auger or elevator, but something. I just never hear people talk about 504s or 240/340 series tractors for that matter... IH may have made thousands of them, but if I were to guess I'd say there are thousands of them in fence rows and scrapyards too. 

Thousands, but not tens of thousands of 240s, 340s and 504s, vs. HUNDREDS of thousands of H's and M's. There are proportionally as many 240s, 340s and 504s in scrapyards as Hs and Ms. Very few by comparison.

By the 1960's most farms had moved on from tractors that size, there were far fewer farms, and H's and M's were a dime a dozen, so there wasn't much demand for tractors that size as the main horse. You spent your limited money on a 560, 706 or 806, or a 1206 if you were a big time operator.

[766 Man]

9 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

 

Back in 1982 we had a hail storm come through with baseball size hail stones.  Caused a lot of damage.  It caved in the roof of this lean to which was small work shop and generator room dating back to the 30s.  So dad decided to pull it away from the main building out to the dump. Tried the M first.  It pulled hard but couldn't quite do it.  So we had to get the 4640.  Guess we should have tried an H instead since they seem to be the tractor of the week that has ungodly horsepower.  

  It's incredible as to all the rationalizing in terms of H's and 504's among other tractors that goes on here.  H's and M's are fine tractors but many had them through the 60's, 70's, and beyond because they had little trade in value.  The local IH dealer had a policy where they would only allow so many H and M trades at one time.  After that they would only figure a no trade deal for anybody looking to trade off their H or M because the H's and M's were slow to leave the dealer lot even if a good one only had a 250 dollar price tag on them.  At this point many stuck around their original farms not because they were beloved family heirlooms but because there was no market for them short of giving them away.  The heirloom thing really did not take off until 1990 for the most part.  The same thing for JD A and B, AC WD and WD 45, and the other mass produced tractors except than the old Ford tractors such as 9N, 8N, and Jubilee.  The old Fords had a market as many moved from town into the country and wanted a jack of all trades tractor to handle a few acres and sat low enough to mow under trees.  

  Not everybody wanted to farm with a 1940's tractor during the 1960's and beyond.  Many were like both of my grandfathers who were getting very significant wear and tear on their bodies and thus wanted features such as power steering and responsive hydraulics which did not come to a stop when pressing in the clutch.  Many had their big tractor needs covered and needed a secondary tractor with modern features.  

  As to the 504 and the other small IH 1960's tractors looking at serial number assignments we can see that tens of thousands were built and not all were sold to hippy communes or are still sitting at Rock Island under some cloaking device.  They served their owners well and most did not have to plow 100 acres of clay soil to prove their "tractorhood."  As to survivors when I worked for Central Tractor during the 1990's the rule of thumb was that one third of any 1940's model was already lost to history due to things such as fires including fueling hot gasoline engine equipped tractors.  Fueling gas engine tractors while hot was such a big deal that it was a major topic for any 4H young tractor operator program.  A fair number burned in barn or shed fires and some got scrapped after many years of neglect.  But it was a constant regardless of brand and model.  

[lotsaIHCs]

The market for Ms around ND never got as low as $250 or as was stated, "short of giving them away". We didn't see a lot of them on dealership lots because most farmers didn't trade them in. They kept them as a chore tractor. In 1977 dad bought an M with a Duall loader for $1250 or $1500. In 1977 dollars. That would be equivalent to right around $7000 today. That was the going price for them at the time. We looked at several in the same price range before buying that one, from a private seller. The next M was bought at auction for $1,000 in about 1988. That would be about $3000 today. Even  $250 in 1977 would still be about $1400 today. But I never saw one anywhere in my area that cheap in the 70s or 80s. By then an M or an H was on loader duty or running an auger, mower or rake. Many went to people with a few acres outside of town for mowing or snow removal. The value for an M or H is probably  at the lowest it's ever been right now at around $800-$1500

[766 Man]

  It was worse if you had a MH 44 or MM U during the 1970's.  I remember one farmer my dad knew doing a happy dance after selling his 44 for 200 dollars.  During the mid-1960's a Farmall H sold for 150 dollars on average and a M for 200 dollars.  Other than the latest JD A the earlier A's got maybe 300 dollars at the most during the 1970's.  The cheap weekend farmers often bragged about buying a wartime JD A for 175 dollars.  

[mmi]

2 hours ago, 766 Man said:

The local IH dealer had a policy where they would only allow so many H and M trades at one time.  

Of the 12+- Mega steelers that control all brands in the NE ."required" koolaide dictates " nothing not shiny out front,No trades over 5-8yrs old on lot ,NO OFF BRAND unless presold  /sell thru"   Most will not quote or accept ANY trade until they have and auction lined up or bid from "little store"

[Big Bud guy]

55 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

The market for Ms around ND never got as low as $250 or as was stated, "short of giving them away". We didn't see a lot of them on dealership lots because most farmers didn't trade them in. They kept them as a chore tractor. In 1977 dad bought an M with a Duall loader for $1250 or $1500. In 1977 dollars. That would be equivalent to right around $7000 today. That was the going price for them at the time. We looked at several in the same price range before buying that one, from a private seller. The next M was bought at auction for $1,000 in about 1988. That would be about $3000 today. Even  $250 in 1977 would still be about $1400 today. But I never saw one anywhere in my area that cheap in the 70s or 80s. By then an M or an H was on loader duty or running an auger, mower or rake. Many went to people with a few acres outside of town for mowing or snow removal. The value for an M or H is probably  at the lowest it's ever been right now at around $800-$1500

In the past I’ve bought two running Ms one with a Heisler transmission for $250 and another with a loader for $500. 

[TomH]

Numbers: a quick look through market place and CL I find 17 H's for sale within 50 miles of me with an average price of about 1700$. There are 2 Farmall 504 gas tractors at 3500 and 5000$. Diesels are pretty rare to find.

[lotsaIHCs]

2 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

In the past I’ve bought two running Ms one with a Heisler transmission for $250 and another with a loader for $500. 

My last one was a runner for $200. My point was that today those tractors are at the lowest price I've ever seen. They were worth much more in the 70s than today. I never saw an M sell for $200 in the 70s.

[lotsaIHCs]

2 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  It was worse if you had a MH 44 or MM U during the 1970's.  I remember one farmer my dad knew doing a happy dance after selling his 44 for 200 dollars.  During the mid-1960's a Farmall H sold for 150 dollars on average and a M for 200 dollars.  Other than the latest JD A the earlier A's got maybe 300 dollars at the most during the 1970's.  The cheap weekend farmers often bragged about buying a wartime JD A for 175 dollars.  

Must be a different area. In 1965 my grandpa's M sold on the auction sale for $1000 and his 300 utility with loader sold for $800. Mom kept the sale ledger with the prices and who bought each item.

[766 Man]

1 hour ago, lotsaIHCs said:

Must be a different area. In 1965 my grandpa's M sold on the auction sale for $1000 and his 300 utility with loader sold for $800. Mom kept the sale ledger with the prices and who bought each item.

  I'm not doubting you and like you said different areas.  Those 1940's tractors had to go someplace when the owners died or retired and the selling prices reflected that.  At one time most of the farms on my road had a H or M tractor on them.  The farm just south of me had two H's for quite a long time.  Both bought brand new.  Even upgrading a 1940's tractor with live hydraulic pump add on's, Char-Lyn power steering, and M & W live PTO kits made them only so appealing.  By the 1960's most manufacturers were building tractors double the HP and only burned roughly the same amount of fuel per hour.  Hi lo functions such as the TA, Dual Power, Power Director, and Hydra Power were becoming very common.  Full power forward-reverse functions became available for loader work.  1940's tractors did not last indefinitely and many owners hit a crossroad as to whether a rebuild was justified versus moving on to something more modern.  Some made choices including being frugal and just getting by with what they had.  But many had minimal debt if any and many ran profitable operations so it was a minimal issue to buy a new tractor.  Some farms were a mixed bag such as my neighbors to the south who bought three new tractors during the 1960's (Oliver 770, Farmall 460, and JD 3020) but ran dated equipment such as a sickle bar mower with separate hay conditioner (on the 460) and false end gate wagons plus long hopper blower for filling silo.  When they bought their chopper and blower around 1968 they combed the area with a fine tooth comb to find THE best price and bought an AC 782 forage harvester and AC long table blower.  When they sold out in 1975 they never owned a Haybine and bought just one self unloading wagon to go with the two false end gate wagons.  

[whweldit]

Never meant to imply the H (or its big brother the M) were ungodly powerhouses.  They were extremely popular in this area and are still several in use.  They are not a modern fancy tractor.   I was merely saying that many who bought the modern fancier tractors with 40/50 hp underestimated the pulling ability of the older heavier tractors.  The H here has been upgraded with live hydraulics, 3 pt hitch, better seat, canopy, side access steps, and 12 volt system. Made a whole different tractor out of it.  Probably could have bought a newer tractor for what we spent but know what we have and it meets the needs of what we need the H for. For the record, super A’s (and up thru the 140’s), super C’s, H/M series played a major role in the sweet potato farms in this county until the late 70’s/early 80’s.   Today what few veggie farms remain still use the Super A/140 tractors.  

[acem]

When auto steer was newish I saw a video of a M Farmall with full GPS auto steer. 12v and power steering added. Never saw the details but watched it run in the video.

Made me think of my neighbors who still ran Hs and Ms with beds back when I was a big kid. They ran single front tire and it steered itself. You couldn't get it out of the row if you wanted.

Set it up on the row. Drop the implement. Let go and hang on to the end of the field. Lift the implement. Turn it around to the next rows. Lower the implement and go again.

JD poppers with single wheels and no power steering would do the same but they were all retired by the late 70s here (I've never seen one doing crop work).

Most everyone had gone to bigger tractors by then (706-1086 or 3010-4640) but a few still ran Hs and Ms. In fact the biggest row crop farmer in my area ran them until their dads health went bad, two sons moved off and the remaining son 'retired' from row crops and just ran cattle on his own place. He sold out his big tractor (1206 primar tillage) combine (F?), grain truck and row crop implements to a neighbor who still farms. The bad farming situation in the early 80s made early retirement look more appealing. They ran on cash and didn't have loans.

Their dad had a peg leg but still drove tractors and trucks till his health failed.

Raymond is 90+ years old and in the nursing home. Can't hardly see or hear.

Good memories.

[Big Bud guy]

11 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  It's incredible as to all the rationalizing in terms of H's and 504's among other tractors that goes on here.  H's and M's are fine tractors but many had them through the 60's, 70's, and beyond because they had little trade in value.  The local IH dealer had a policy where they would only allow so many H and M trades at one time.  After that they would only figure a no trade deal for anybody looking to trade off their H or M because the H's and M's were slow to leave the dealer lot even if a good one only had a 250 dollar price tag on them.  At this point many stuck around their original farms not because they were beloved family heirlooms but because there was no market for them short of giving them away.  The heirloom thing really did not take off until 1990 for the most part.  The same thing for JD A and B, AC WD and WD 45, and the other mass produced tractors except than the old Ford tractors such as 9N, 8N, and Jubilee.  The old Fords had a market as many moved from town into the country and wanted a jack of all trades tractor to handle a few acres and sat low enough to mow under trees.  

  Not everybody wanted to farm with a 1940's tractor during the 1960's and beyond.  Many were like both of my grandfathers who were getting very significant wear and tear on their bodies and thus wanted features such as power steering and responsive hydraulics which did not come to a stop when pressing in the clutch. 

The only reason we kept our M past the 60s was because it had that Farmhand loader that was useful for scooping up square bales.  Other than that it got replaced rather quickly with a IH 240 and 4020.  The 240 took over the raking jobs and the 4020 took over the baling jobs.  Much like the Ford N series, the 240 was much handier for small jobs around the farmstead with its 2-point hitch vs the M.  What gets me is seems like people wanted to hang on to H/Ms dress them up best as they could with add ons but still end up with a tractor lacking a live PTO, and TA when all you had to do is buy basically the same tractor a couple series newer to get those features factory.  

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, acem said:

When auto steer was newish I saw a video of a M Farmall with full GPS auto steer. 12v and power steering added. Never saw the details but watched it run in the video.

 

JD did that too with A but they could claim all their stuff was 100% JD.  

[lotsaIHCs]

What I find interesting is the progression of tractors in the later 50s and 60s. Live power, hydraulics, power steering and 3 point becoming standard. In 77 our M was 30 years old. But the technology was much the same as 20 years earlier. After using letter series a 656 or 1066 is like driving a car with the power steering. Now a 30 year old tractor was a 1996. It boggles my mind what a 30 year old tractor was when I was a kid compared to a 30 year old tractor today. I think people back then just kept their old tractors because they had them, they were paid for and they could find a use for them around the farm. 

[Big Bud guy]

46 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

What I find interesting is the progression of tractors in the later 50s and 60s. Live power, hydraulics, power steering and 3 point becoming standard. In 77 our M was 30 years old. But the technology was much the same as 20 years earlier.

That depends on what tractors you are comparing.  My great grandpa went from a IH 600 to a 4020 in 6 years.  There is a helluva a lot difference in technology between those two. 

[MacAR]

1 hour ago, lotsaIHCs said:

 I think people back then just kept their old tractors because they had them, they were paid for and they could find a use for them around the farm

Bingo, give that man a cigar!

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

We never got rid of hardly any tractors. And the few we did, I wish we had them back. The last one that left was almost thirty years ago now, but we have bought more in that time period. My grandfather and dad always thought of them as family members. My great grandfather only ever had two tractors in his life and we still have one of them. I have no idea where his Farmall Regular is and would have no way to identify it as his if someone claimed to have it. I would be very surprised if any that are here now ever leave unless my children sell them after I’m dead.