Does Modern Heavy Equipment Machinery Rely Too Much on Tech?

[jackthomes11]

Hi everyone,

I've noticed lately is that heavy equipment machinery today are pretty much all dependent on GPS, sensors and onboard computers. Quite a big improvement for precision and ease of operations, but I'm wondering, is it a potential drawback? What would happen when such systems fail right in the middle of a project, let's say, somewhere remote where tech support is not available?
Do you think the industry is sacrificing reliability for innovation?

[pede]

My old man always said, a good operator had the feel in the seat of his pants, he also said one needed to look busy while not doing anything but that's for another day. Growing up through this technology their was 2 schools of thought, one was it eliminated manpower and the other opened up the industry to unskilled labor.       

[hardtail]

Was talk a few years back of unmanned equipment, one guy could run an entire complex jobsite out of a pickup, not sure they have done it yet but it's probably coming

[jeeper61]

The automation of the of the jobsite will be like CAM packages for CNC machining.

A starting CAD model with a soil profile and a finished site CAD and the "CAM" package will figure out the "tool paths"

There are already atouminos pit mine sites where the haul trucks are run by the "program"

[Binderdan]

All this stuff is definitely heading in the autonomous direction. Certainly has its benefits.

One drawback I'm seeing already is how quickly software, circuit-boards, modules, and such components are obsoleted by the manufacturer and not supported in the aftermarket. You can't just go to your local machine shop and have those parts re-created like you can with obsolete hard parts. Unlike the older 90s and prior electronics you could somewhat repair or re-create if you were knowledgeable, the new stuff is not and often involves proprietary software you can't get your hands on. Leaving a perfectly viable machine crippled by one obsolete part rendering it parts/scrap. 

I work in the autonomous aircraft industry and the products have a planned lifespan for the original purchaser, after that NOTHING is supported. 

[jeeper61]

Industry standard is a 10 year life span on most Industrial electronics 

[Ian Beale]

FWIW

A friend was invited by a neighbour on a trip to look at leasing a biggish Komatsu dozer.

His report on the starting procedure was 

"You turn the key one notch and a check list screen comes up.  After seven of those it will start - if all pass.

Just imagine what they'll be like when we can afford them"

[mike newman]

 .....for me, now regarded as a '' Dinasaur''....running a GPS equipped machine  is fraught with a degree of anxiety and fear of 'screwing ' up....but as I have yet to own a cell phone..and never will...that is no doubt part of the problem.... I have no idea about that sophistication   (GPS)  and equally have no interest what so ever in learning... There are a million things I would like to learn about , concerning yesterdays  achievements...(  Eg ....how did  Harry Melvin Pope make rifle barrels ,superior to any one else..??)

So...sit me on an old Caterpillar D6B...and its all good ....its easy to operate...its easy to fix..(albeit expensive...)  ..its simple to service.....except , of course that ''Health and Safety  NZ inc ''  deem any machine older than ten years to be ''unsafe'' to work in the Forestry Industry....So really at that point...you realise that bureaucracy has won.....bullshit baffles brains , and its time to either learn to be a 'robot'  or quit and mess with one's personal interests untill the curtain finally falls......

Mike

[td9bcf180]

2 hours ago, mike newman said:

 .....for me, now regarded as a '' Dinasaur''....running a GPS equipped machine  is fraught with a degree of anxiety and fear of 'screwing ' up....but as I have yet to own a cell phone..and never will...that is no doubt part of the problem.... I have no idea about that sophistication   (GPS)  and equally have no interest what so ever in learning... There are a million things I would like to learn about , concerning yesterdays  achievements...(  Eg ....how did  Harry Melvin Pope make rifle barrels ,superior to any one else..??)

So...sit me on an old Caterpillar D6B...and its all good ....its easy to operate...its easy to fix..(albeit expensive...)  ..its simple to service.....except , of course that ''Health and Safety  NZ inc ''  deem any machine older than ten years to be ''unsafe'' to work in the Forestry Industry....So really at that point...you realise that bureaucracy has won.....bullshit baffles brains , and its time to either learn to be a 'robot'  or quit and mess with one's personal interests untill the curtain finally falls......

Mike

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Except change that Cat D6B to a TD anything. Hmmm. Hmmm.

[mike newman]

On 9/25/2025 at 8:40 PM, td9bcf180 said:

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Except change that Cat D6B to a TD anything. Hmmm. Hmmm.

...TD''anything''  would also fit my ''life-style ''...no worries there, Mike.....just I have  no blade gear on anything IH...for reasons you blokes will very well know.......!!!!!!

....I have several little jobs for the  TD6 and the 91 series....drawbar jobs which I really like doing.....but in my absence from seat time on either of them...the steering clutches are 'stuck'...again....and they are both in a shed.....so I have to mess with those bloody clutches before doing anything with them.....I also have to salvage steering clutches from no less than four other TD's.....all will be well stuck..but all will have a lot of life left for my endeavors ..or perhaps to assist some  one else......

I do not have overly big hands ...but the TD6 clutches are a copulatory adjective    (  plural......) mission...

Mike

[td9bcf180]

8 hours ago, mike newman said:

I do not have overly big hands ...but the TD6 clutches are a copulatory adjective    (  plural......) mission...

Mike

The opposite here, Mike- my paws are akin to those of Grizzly Adams of television fame and I still have the oldest 91 series clutches to tackle and remove. Not sure what kind of vocabulary that will entice out of me.

I did operate/run a Cat D6C (not mine) for a year or so and it was a good unit but seemed to have a puking fit when it really came on to pushing over a big pile of dirt/trees/whatever. Not like my old TD15B with the DT407 guts that would never hesitate. Have run JD's and a Case too but I am still an IH lover, I guess.

[td9bcf180]

On 9/24/2025 at 5:47 AM, jackthomes11 said:

Do you think the industry is sacrificing reliability for innovation?

YES. Robotically operated everything broke down everywhere. 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

All of the tech on new machinery of any kind is to try and make up for the lack of skilled labor.
 

My observations from being around machinery of all ages and hiring people to run it-

In general older guys who learned how to do it without the tech, don’t want it. Even if they are running a newer machine that has it equipped, they don’t want to use it. Young people don’t want to be bothered to learn how to do the job without it. They can’t/wont run without the assistance. People/Companies who buy new machinery have a totally different outlook than those that are only in the used market. New machinery purchasers want efficiency, used machinery purchasers want reliability. New machinery is built for those that buy new. Manufacturers care little to nothing about those who will own the machinery in three decades. They will sell parts and provide service only if it is profitable to do so. 

[brian falcone]

Excavator operator going on 30 years now...started on a cat/mitsubishi  e120 and spend time on every iteration of the cat 300 series.  Boss bought a new cat 330 next gen with all the grade control and GPS on it. I didn't use it often in the short weeks I operated it before I left. 

I will say right off the back  the digging was very slow when it was all turned on.  Yes, it graded nice but again too slow.  If you hit a rock that had to be dug out, you have to turn it off, dig out the rock, fill in the hole and  grade it again after resetting the " benchmark".

Maybe i didn't use it long enough but in my opinion a decent operator should be able to shape a retaining pond. Or grade a pad without it. 

If nothing else it wasted time and made the laborers lazy as they would just stand there and wait for the machine to fine grade all of it.

Again it was slow. In fact I found it downright annoying at how unproductive it was.

This system was on an Excavator, shaping ponds and grading drain fields.

I do think on a dozer, doing finish work  on large areas it may be effective. The other issue is if one day it didn't work, would the new operators be able to do a job without it ?

[Ihfan4life]

17 hours ago, brian falcone said:

The other issue is if one day it didn't work, would the new operators be able to do a job without it ?

No. The operator will not have the skill set required to operate the machine “blind” 

[pede]

I embraced this tech early on, had an uncle that tiled so we had the equipment. You start doing building(hog) pads 80x200, with specs +/_ 1in, ain't nobody that good, with the lazer we got to +/_1/2in, concrete guy's liked us. Course all my stuff merely had reference lights and not controlled, having that saved me labor and gained jobs because of it. I will add that older equipment takes a lot of $$$ to go total control, something we never did.    

[cumminstinkerer]

@pede I might argue that statement, I graded 1750 feet of a drainage with no fancy tools, did by the plumb bob in my butt, when I was all done I checked it with the lazer and had a whopping 1 1/10th of a foot of variation throughout the entire ditch from the planned grade. I didn't check it at all during the grading just did it! that drainage drains better than the ones across built by a big company running GPS. mine was all done with a Fiat FD14E they had 3 6Rs on theirs, mine drains clear out, theirs ponds in several places. GPS has its place, it is awesome for tiling, it did make simple work of the trenching once you had all the calibrations done properly.

[supermechanic]

I have no reason to believe my Allis-Chalmers HD-6 could not still be running by the time my grandchildren are my age.

 

  Will any of the new equipment with fancy electric do-thingies last this long? Not a chance.

[hardtail]

If you go by hours there are some massive hours on some of that equipment, always a balance between tech and experience just like auto park, backup cameras and lane assist, after awhile nobody has any skills to do anything