Crawler Flexplates

[acem]

I've bought several items/parts from overseas.  Smaller items that can be shipped in the mail/UPS (seems like DHL?).   It went smoothly as well.

I expect crawler parts would be shipped in crates.  A friend has imported firearms and related parts.  Lots of paperwork there.  The biggest problem with importing a container of these type parts is sitting on the inventory until it sells.

[Binderdan]

Thanks for the kind words guys!

I went ahead and removed the torque converter assembly from the engine today and got it moved to the spot where I plan to disassemble it. There is not really a good place here since I don't have a shop to work in.

As I was lowering it onto some blocks of wood I noticed the center of the converter was dribbling Hy-Tran. I looked at the hole in the center and saw splines. That seems odd... Surely there is an O-ring or seal in there that seals the splined shaft inside from leaking out the hole.  The hole had a taper to it, matching the taper in the center of the flywheel, I had assumed to center it and hold it centered.

Then I realized this taper wasn't a machined taper. I had put this together thinking this was correct when actually the center pilot of the torque converter had broken off in the flywheel at some point! Thus exposing the insides of the torque converter and allowing it to leak. It wasn't leaking from a failed seal, it was leaking from a broken torque converter housing!

You can see in my assembly photo below that this was that way when I put it together.

You can see the center pilot on #4 that is clearly missing on mine and looks to be stuck in the flywheel center. The broken pieces had probably spun so much against each other with a broken flexplate by the previous owner and mechanic that it looked like it was a machined surface and I overlooked it as a break.

So now I need to find a #4 part number 619963C1 drive housing side of the torque converter.

However I have concerns about balancing. The original broken piece has holes drilled in the face of it I presume are for balancing the torque converter. Wouldn't this be balanced as an assembly? So a used replacement piece would cause my torque converter to be unbalanced?

While I was looking at this the postal service showed up with my gasket and seal kit. Looks like a very nice set!

[acem]

Is that broken piece cast iron or steel?

Could it be welded/brazed back on and machined true on a lathe?

[mike newman]

Dan....you are the epitome of the true    International     Harvester     'tragic ''

....but your work  and dedication  is exemplary ,,,,with you working  away there on equipment that others would be sending to the scrap merchants  ,......if you would like further challenges, you could always consider a trip to New Zealand...to our place   

Good luck with that converter  !!!

Mike

(...our place  ...some call it the IH junk yard...... )

[Binderdan]

ACEM the broken piece looks to be cast, but I don't think I have the skills to weld it and machine it while keeping it true and balanced. I did find a few replacement 619963C1 online I need to call about Monday. The only one that had a price was $150 and I can work with that. 

I talked to my friend who used to work at a Caterpillar dealer and he said that the pieces of the torque converter are probably balanced individually because the components can be swapped without issue. At least with CAT equipment, which probably also uses Borg Warner components.

Thank you Mike! I hope someday my travels take me "down under". I would love to see that part of the world.

I pulled the flywheel this morning to remove the broken piece. It confirmed my theory. Unfortunately the converter pilot did a little damage to the flywheel pilot hole before breaking.

At first I thought the pilot hole in the flywheel was still decent enough to use, or worst case I could machine out the pilot a bit and make a bushing with the correct inside diameter. But then I saw two cracks in the flywheel center after cleaning with brake cleaner.

So now I'm torn between ordering a replacement used flywheel or to install a bushing the center. The cracks aren't bad but a bushing won't eliminate the cracks if they were to creep the potential destruction could be really bad. I really don't want to tear this apart again, but a used flywheel is an additional $300+ cost.

Here is where the leak was coming from, and where the pilot broke off of.

[jeeper61]

$450 plus the reseal kit that's not bad for a machine that old

 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

If a good used or new can be had, I’d put it in. You’ve already done so much work, I’d fix it right. Your efforts are certainly to be commended. Especially your efforts to manufacture your own parts. I bet people all over the world are getting ideas from your threads. 

[acem]

Since you can get one for $150, go for it. 

I was afraid it was made of unobtanium!

[louie figone]

Dan, replace the flywheel, If the used flywheel is $300.00 that's only $30.00 per year amortized over 10 years, the amount of work you will use that tractor it will last you more than 10 years. And you will know you fixed it right. I've had mine 49 years and it's still going strong. 

[Rawleigh99]

If you find you cannot get ta replacement you might try turning down the OD of the cracked piece and shrinking a sleeve on it.  Then you can clean up the ID and shrink a sleeve into that.  Too much work if you can get a replacement though!

[Binderdan]

Good news! Got a used flywheel bought for $270, and a used torque converter drive section for $150 plus shipping from Wengers in Meyerstown, PA. I did locate a few others but Wengers prices were substantially less. FP Smith wanted $900 for NOS flywheel or $850 for used. A major difference. Hopefully the parts will arrive by the time I get home next week. Like some of you pointed out, its kinda cheap insurance. The damage an exploding flywheel could do is far greater than the cost of the replacement flywheel.

The exhaust pipe was a pretty ugly and short thing. So I did some measuring and prepared a new one for install. I did find a NOS pipe but it was almost $300 so I decided to build my own.

I wasn't sure what size the original was but I'm guessing from the photos it was 3" OD, and expanded to 4" ID at the bottom where it clamps to the 4" OD flange on the hood. The original was curved at the top.

I ordered a 48" long 3" OD black pipe with a turnout off ebay and cut it to 40" long. This is the distance from the top of the hood to the top of the ROPS. I also bought a 3" ID to 4" ID adapter(Walker 41989). I set the bottom of the pipe flush with the bottom of the adapter and welded it together. Once I paint it black with high temp paint it should look pretty close to original for about $125 in materials. I do have the original clamp still on the old pipe that I will use to install.

[Binderdan]

If anyone cares to see the first start video. You can hear in my voice my spirits being crushed by disappointment when I see the leak. Lol!

 

[hardtail]

Gotta take the positives away Dan, getting closer to a nice running machine

I spy a Gremlin in the background, those are becoming desirable 

[Binderdan]

Thanks guys!

Yes! That is a 1975 Gremlin X. I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee who will be donating its 4.0 engine, 42RE transmission and engine harness and computer to that Gremlin. Looking forward to that project.

Good news! The replacement flywheel and torque converter half showed up! After shipping they were almost $600.

The torque converter half came with the large roller bearing installed, but the bearing didn't turn freely. I tried to find a new bearing to install. The IH part number for the bearing is 606265C91 which crosses to a SKF 6211-J. The old crusty bearing pulled out fairly easily with a slide hammer. The backside of the bearing has a "WP" or West Pullman IH bearing and the number C255 on it. Unfortunately the new one was a $140 from NAPA or $50 online but a week away. I held out hope I could reuse the bearing in the old converter.

 

 

[Binderdan]

At first I was excited to see the replacement flywheel had a much nicer ring gear than the original. Until I saw that two teeth were damaged worse than any on my original ring gear. I had a few options, re-clock the nicer ring gear so the starter would commonly engage a different location, swap the ring gears, or flip the nicer ring gear. I gave it a lot of thought and the last thing I want to do is pull this engine a third time. So I went with plan D and ordered a new ring gear from my local International Truck dealer for around $400. Its a lot but you couldn't pay me to pull the engine again for $400 so I made the decision.  (replacement : Top, Original : Bottom)

I started tearing down the torque converter assembly. My goal here isn't really to rebuild it but to replace any seals, and to inspect it for anything that needs replaced. The torque converter gearbox was very clean inside and I saw nothing concerning. all bearings seemed tight.

To remove the torque converter from the gearbox there are just two snap rings, one on each side of the large gear shown below. After removing the first one the gear slides off and the second snap ring can be removed, and the housing lifted off the torque converter.

Once the housing was lifted off the input seal could be replaced. The new seal included with the kit was a National 416288. The old one drove out easily and I drove in the new seal flush like the original. The original was a little hardened but not in bad condition otherwise. 

Then it was time for the torque converter. It came apart easily and everything inside was in good condition and all bearings tight. I was sure to keep everything clean, but in the desert its not easy.

The forward half of the torque converter (above left) had a half of the turbine section pressed into the bearing I showed earlier. Thankfully it came out easily with a slide hammer through the center hole then exposing the bearing that was pressed into the forward section. I removed it easily with a slide hammer and inspected it. I was leery to reuse a bearing that was removed by slide hammer but it was still in great condition and spun smooth and tight.

On the torque converter input there is a wear sleeve that is included in the gasket and seal kit that needs to be replaced. I split the original carefully with a chisel.

I cleaned the new replacement torque converter forward section and went to a local machine shop to use their awesome press! I also took the new wear sleeve along to have them install.

The original bearing pressed in nicely! Then the forward turbine section pressed in. Spun nicely in the bearing.

[Binderdan]

The machine shop made a driver to press the new wear ring onto the shaft with Permatex green sleeve retaining Locktite. After getting home I started reassembling the torque converter. Pre-lubing everything with Viscosity Ultraction I put the bearings, stator, and spacers and turbine back together.

I pre-lubed the O-ring with petroleum jelly and put the halves together and torqued the bolts.

Here are the two front sections. You can see the hole from the broken off pilot on the left, and the replacement that still has the pilot on the right.

[Binderdan]

I laid the torque converter on the ground and set the housing on it after lubing the new input seal. Then reinstalling the first snap ring included in the seal kit, then the gearbox drive gear, then the other snap ring included in the kit.

I laid out the new gasket on the housing after cleaning the surfaces with brake cleaner.

The gearbox housing has a splined shaft that supports the torque converter. It is removable and has a gasket included in the kit, but I decided against removing this shaft due to its difficulty to reinstall and no added benefit from removing it in my case. The shaft does have a metal hook seal ring that need replaced. New one is included in the seal kit.

There is also another metal hook sealing ring on the output shaft that needs replaced. It too is included in the kit.

After placing the gearbox housing back onto the housing I tightened the bolts, then dropped the output shaft into place.

The output gasket was in good shape and didn't want to come off easily so I cleaned it and added some black RTV before reinstalling. The output seal was replaced earlier in this project but a new one was included in the kit. I'll keep it for a spare.

Reinstalled the output yoke and... Done! Ready to install once the new ring gear comes in.

I wish I could have cleaned the whole thing and been more thorough but I think all concerns have been addressed.

[Binderdan]

Got a call from Border International this morning saying my ring gear was in!

The original ring gear is IH part number 304439R1 which shows to have also fit an IH 503 combine, supersedes to a Case IH 1818739C1 which seems to be used on D282, D301, and D360 engines, has been discontinued by Case IH. However a note in the Case IH catalog says "NLA, order from your local Navistar dealer" which is where I got it. Total out the door for the new ring gear alone was $438.76!! Ouch!

The new ring gear matched up well to the original except for the angle on the starter side for engagement.

I got the cutting torch out and heated the old ring gear til it could be tapped off with a punch and hammer. Then cleaned the mating surfaces with brake cleaner and set the ring gear into place with the angled teeth on the engine(starter) side and began to heat.

The process wasn't bad, but I was racing the sunset to finish in time. Once the ring gear was seated I let it cool for a few minutes and installed the flywheel onto the engine.

Hopefully I can get the torque converter back onto the engine, and assembly reinstalled into the 100C tomorrow morning. I have been blessed with good weather lately and I want to get this running and back together before it turns cold.

[Binderdan]

I started reinstalling the torque converter. Installed the flexplate and carried the assembly over to the engine with the 4500B forklift.

I installed the torque converter onto the engine.

The new ring gear looks good in there! Or maybe I'm telling myself that to justify the price. lol!

The 4500B made the installation much easier.

This time the hydraulic pump and charge pump splines did not go on easily. It took quite a fight to get them lined up even though I lubed the splines and the O ring seal.

I finally got the splines to align by lifting the engine and using the sideshift feature on the forklift.

Then all the hoses, driveshaft, mounts, fuel lines, air cleaner, radiator, etc. I did install an new radiator drain petcock that will make draining the radiator much easier next time, although I hope there never is a next time.

[Binderdan]

Well today is the day! After finishing the engine installation and topping off coolant and transmission oil, and bleeding the fuel system the time for the second attempt at engine start.

The engine rolled over a few times and started right up! I brought it to an idle and checked for leaks. Thankfully I found no major leaks this time! After a short warm up I ran the hydraulics through their range of motion and everything seemed good! Then I brought the throttle up to about a quarter and depressed the decelerator pedal. The engine dropped to idle and I shifted the powershift transmission into 1st Reverse and released the pedal. The 100C began to creep back, then 1st Fwd and the machine creeped forward even at only a quarter throttle! I drove about 100 ft and back, and even steered a bit.

The transmission seems great! Of course this isn't the end of this project but certainly a HUGE milestone. A few other things I will need to deal with such as brake pedal adjustment(no brakes from pedal), upper radiator hose leak, possible radiator leak, alternator wiring is butchered, belly pans need cleaned and reinstalled, needs new ripper teeth and shanks, some pin and bushing attention is needed on the loader,and some undercarriage attention.

But for now it'll get a full greasing tomorrow including track adjusters, and then some light use to test it out.

Thank you everyone for following along this thread. It has been a fun project and I appreciate your advise and support!

[Binderdan]

For anyone interested, here is the second start video!

 

[Binderdan]

Been fighting with grease zerks on this thing. Seems like over half of them are plugged. Going to have to order a bunch of new ones. Really not happy with the cheap assortments you can get. The quality seems poor. Been looking at a Lincoln set and boy are they pricey but quality seems a lot better on the Lincoln zerks.

They put a grease zerk on everything on these! There is three just on the loader control! Guess its a good thing, but too bad none have been greased in decades.

I addressed the left track adjuster as the chain was very loose. I suspected the adjuster seals were bad and anticipated having to reseal both sides. But the right side seems to be holding adjustment and after pumping more grease into the left side it seems to be holding well.

I installed my new exhaust pipe and i think it looks pretty good!

Someone on here mentioned how the seat are designed for short people so I hesitated on ordering a new seat. Kinda glad I waited. There really isn't anything wrong with the one that's on it other than its much higher than original and looks a bit goofy. At 6' tall I'm not super tall but not exactly short, so I really like the higher seat and it works well for me.

I took the 100C out into the back 40 today for a test run. It seemed to do well. Ran and started great! Shifted ok but I think the speed shift is a little slow, hopefully with some use this will improve. I even opened the clamshell and pushed a dirt pile. It pushed very well! Even at less than full throttle.

I had a coolant leak from the top of the radiator but it seems to be holding fine now. Maybe the level is below the leak now.

[louie figone]

Dan, check to make sure the bushings for the loader pins have not turned, I found a couple of mine had turned so the hole in the bushings did not line up with the grease hole.

[just Dave]

I hard pipe sometimes to clear the worst of zerks and often the zerk can go back in after. I also have a modified collet tip for a 10,000 psi Lincoln grease gun that can clear most. I use an extra washer behind the jaws on the tip, you have to unscrew it a bit to seat it on the zerk, then retighten. This will then usually lock on.

Nice work on the loader, it should serve you well.

[Rawleigh99]

Great project Dan!  Thanks for bringing us along!