Crawler Flexplates

[Binderdan]

The machine shop did some testing on my original to determine the hardness and other properties. They recommend the 304 stainless as a replacement.  So I took their advice.

If it's not a suitable replacement material I'll probably be the first to know.

Considering it's spinning in cast iron housings I don't see it needing to do much flexing if any. As you said, I think it's mostly just a coupler.

[mmi]

42 minutes ago, Binderdan said:

The machine shop did some testing on my original to determine the hardness and other properties. They recommend the 304 stainless as a replacement.  So I took their advice.

If it's not a suitable replacement material I'll probably be the first to know.

Considering it's spinning in cast iron housings I don't see it needing to do much flexing if any. As you said, I think it's mostly just a coupler.

Just checking if greater minds had input?

I always thought in such use that was a misnomer/carryover name . like an original lovejoy or rag joint    Ie: it has to be flexible shock absorbing and consumable after so many x

knowing that 90% of 4 cyl diesels are only 10% balanced , I have seen a lot of ,spline ,keyed or even  < 9/16 sold bolt connections torn worn,but most IH did make 5000hr +

[Binderdan]

Well I have made some progress on the engine mounts for the 100C. Since they are NLA I will have to resort to making some. The original outer sleeve of the engine mounts are destroyed in the removal process so I have to make new ones, and I may as well make the inners too since I plan to make a few. A machine shop agreed to make me 8 of each metal component for the mounts and I just picked them up today!

I had hoped for a little more chamfer on the outer edge of the ring so less potential binding during installation into the bell housing but otherwise I am very happy with the quality.

I plan to position the metal parts upright (as shown in center of picture) and fill the void with the liquid polymer. I plan to use the painters tape on the bottom to prevent the liquid polymer from leaking out before it cures and to hold the center shaft in the location I decide is properly centered. The 180 grit sandpaper will be to rough up and put some tooth inside where the polymer can better bond to the metal surfaces. Although there seem to be some grooves from the lathe inside the bushing so that may help. The non-chlorinated Brakleen will be to clean the surfaces before the pour to avoid contamination from oils and dirt.

Finding a proper material to use in the mount in place of the original rubber was a challenge. I had no good original rubber to test the durometer for a reference. However after much research I decided a polyurethane with a Shore A durometer rating of 80 to 90 would be best for this application. I found a kit from Forsch Polymer Corp, its a two part mixture that after mixing can be poured into the void. It is a total of 7 days before fully cured. The kit I purchased was a Shore A 80 durometer "high performance" urethane. The amount of material in the kit should be just more than enough to fill all 8 mounts.  It has a fairly short shelf life and only about a 15 minute pot life so I must be prepped and ready before I mix.

Of course it started raining so I will have to do the pour another day...

[td9inidaho]

Nice, look at you be resourceful, good job. Keep us posted on how well this works out. 

Mark 

[Rawleigh99]

Looking good.  You can take a 4.5" grinder with a cutoff wheel and make some scores around the inner piece for the rubber to grip to.  As thick as they are it won't weaken them appreciably.  It does not have to be pretty! 

Also use a sander, grinder or file to get the chamfer you need.

[Binderdan]

22 hours ago, Rawleigh99 said:

You can take a 4.5" grinder with a cutoff wheel and make some scores around the inner piece for the rubber to grip to.

Good thinking! Wish I had thought of that before I went on to next step! Maybe if I make more.

Yesterday I started prepping surfaces, taping, and buying supplies. I picked up a couple small loaf pans at Goodwill and lined them with foil in case of spillage. I roughed up and cleaned the surfaces with 180 grit sand paper and some non-chlorinated Brakleen. Then I taped off the bottom area and also taped over all surfaces that shouldn't have polyurethane on them, leaving a tab on the tape to grip for easy removal.

I then taped the outer part of the shafts above where the polyurethane fills. Using the sticky tape inner bottom I eyeballed center and placed the shafts. The tape held them centered and upright.

I took the trays outside since the hotel probably wouldn't appreciate my arts and crafts projects with the smell of chemicals. To my surprise when I mixed the two parts there was minimal smell. I mixed for about 30 seconds. Instructions said minimum of 15 seconds and said to make sure you scrape the bottom and sides. The two parts are supposed to be pre-measured so you just mix it all together and the ratio is correct. The instructions say the pot life is 10 to 15 minutes but after pouring the first two it became clear that the pot life was much shorter. The polyurethane was thickening fast! The first two were beautiful, with minimum mess. The third was slowed down by the thickening goo and made a mess, the fourth I was lucky to get filled, made a mess, and still have concerns about air pockets. I didn't dare continue to the other remaining four. I called it good after the first four and let it set up. The narrow gap around the inner shaft was difficult to fill. Had the area been wider I probably could have kept going and get two more done. But I stopped at an even number so I'd have two for my 100C and a backup set.

I waited a few hours and checked the cure. It was still tacky to the touch but wouldn't come off onto your finger, so I began pulling tape off, then scraped what little got where it wasn't supposed to be with a razor blade. I was very pleased with the results. The first two look beautiful! The second two aren't bad either but will require a little more razor blade work to clean up. The instructions say seven days until fully cured, but it will be much longer before I'm home and can try them out.

I will order some more polyurethane but this time the 90A durometer and I'll do it in red to tell the difference. This will allow me to finish the other 4 and have options for which to install. I may have someone interested in a set for their TD-8E once they are cured.

What do you think?

[Rawleigh99]

Looks great, especially considering you did it in a hotel room! LOL You're just multi-talented!😄

[Binderdan]

I'm finally back and busy as can be trying to get caught up before I leave again. Ugh!

Been focusing on the new 4500B because I'd like to use it to reinstall the engine in this 100C. But I have made progress with the 100C too!

Started on the rear main seal. I got a new rear main seal from Case IH part number 3038701R91. I removed the flywheel and rear seal plate, removed the old one and drove in the new one. Pretty simple. What wasn't simple was scraping the gasket! A half hour and bloody fingers in I wished I had just wiped it off and reused the old gasket. But too late! Two hours of scraping the old rock hard gasket and it was finally ready to reinstall. The seal didn't look to be too bad but it was a bit hard after 52 years of life, and I didn't want leaks.

With the new gasket from Case IH part number 3055215R4 I gave it a light coat of Permatex Ultra Black sealer since it was in oil. I reinstalled the rear seal plate and the flywheel.

Then it was time for the front timing cover seal. Which was much easier. Removing the three pulley bolts the pulley came off and that goofy stack of tapered wedges thankfully stayed together so I kept it in its original configuration for reassembly. The inner metal ring the seal rides on was pretty dry and required some coaxing with a couple 1/4" course thread bolts and two claw hammers I pulled the ring straight off.

I also used the claw hammer and some old deck screws to remove the old seal. Then cleaned up all the surfaces, swapped out the O-ring.

The new seal kit was an aftermarket kit from Anglo. Part number A41933 came with the new seal, metal seal ring, O-ring, and three different dowel pins for aligning the pulley to the sealing ring and inner gear.

The new seal drove in nicely then I installed the dowel pin that was closest to the original, and installed the sealing ring giving it a light coating of engine oil. Then came the stack of goofy tapered wedge rings. Luckily they stayed in same configuration and went back together nicely.

I put the three bolts back in with that thick washer and done! New main seals! The old ones weren't necessarily bad, just kinda hard and it was easier now to replace than when back in the machine.

 

 

[hardtail]

IH repair resto extravaganza 😊

[Binderdan]

I decided it was time to install my new engine mounts. But first the old ones had to be removed. The center pin fell right out but the outer ring portion of the mounts were pressed into the bell housing. I tried chiseling them but no movement at all. I tried a more violent approach and went straight to the Swazall. It was difficult to keep the blade perfectly flat inside the outer ring, not go too far into the ring and hit the back of the hole with the blade, and not cut too far through the ring all at the same time.

After cutting through the outer ring on the bottom and the top I was able to peel the halves out with a hammer and chisel. It wasn't a fun job. I slightly gouged one side with the chisel but I smoothed it back out using a file. Cleaned the bore out, then put the inner steel disc back into the hole. It fits in loosely, actually seems to be a 2 1/16" disc type freeze plug.

I put the new mounts in the freezer for a couple hours prior. Then I drove in the new mount with a large socket and a mini sledge hammer. I found a socket large enough to drive directly on the outer ring of the mount as to not risk driving the center pin loose from the polyurethane. Unfortunately the socket was slightly too shallow when not perfectly centered and mushroomed the inner pin on one side, but I used a file to take care of any mushrooming on that end. Then I realized it had also moved the inner pin inward slightly. But I removed the flywheel and a few strikes on the inner side I was able to relocate the pin to its proper position. This shouldn't be an issue for its use because the forces applied to the mount when in use are radial not axial forces.

Once both mounts were installed I put the outer blocks onto the mounts and matched up the locations to the old dirt and witness marks. So when the engine is reinstalled they should be very close.

As much as I wanted to reinstall the torque converter and then reinstall the engine I noticed the hoses that control transmission shifting were chaffed and probably not far from leaking. So those will need replaced before the engine/torque converter goes back in.

[Rawleigh99]

At least as good as new, if not better!   Beautiful work!

[louie figone]

Dan, thank you for posting all your work, this is good info.

[Binderdan]

Thanks everyone! Glad it can be an enjoyable read, and hopefully helpful too.

I want to get everything I can repaired before reinstalling the engine that may cause a problem in the future. Such as torque converter output seal, transmission input seal, and any hoses that are looking questionable in hard to reach areas. The area between the torque converter and transmission has a lot of hoses and 5 in particular that control shifting of the powershift transmission from the shift valve. They are very small hoses with 1/8 NPT ends that go from the shift valve to various places on the transmission. All the smaller hoses tied up in a bundle on the right side of this picture. These are in various conditions on mine, not sure if leaking yet, but the outer rubber of the hoses are badly cracked and falling apart. (I had removed the worst two before this photo).

The ends that attach to the shift valve all go into a block that attaches to the shift valve with 2 bolts and some O-rings. The spacing between the hoses on this block was very tight! So tight in fact that I couldn't find anyone who could make a 1/4" hose with 1/8" NPT fixed ends that would crimp small enough to not interfere with the hose next to it on the block. The hex on the originals was 7/16" and most of the ones I could find used 9/16" hex. The hex alone would be impossible to get a wrench on with another beside it. The part numbers for the hoses are three of 656579C1 and two of 656580C1. They are the same hose but 656579C1 is a little longer. I managed to find one NOS 656579C1 hoses and bought it to use as a reference to get them made. The original is steel braided but has no markings on pressures and materials. The service manual doesn't show any test pressure potential over 300 psi on the transmission, and I don't think the anything on the entire machine besides fuel pressure is over 2000 psi. I spent half a day driving around El Paso, TX and Las Cruces, NM but nobody could make one with a small enough crimp and a 7/16" hex. I even called around Albuquerque, NM with no luck. I finally contacted Motion Flow Control Products, a Parker store in Denver who came up with a decent solution. A steel braided hose rated for 3000 psi, met and exceeded all temp, and dimension requirements. Only thing is that its steel braid on the exterior instead of rubber coated, and 3/16" internal diameter rather than 1/4". I don't see the steel braid exterior being an issue. The internal diameter would potentially restrict flow a bit but being that this is for shifting I don't think flow volume is a huge factor with these hoses. I could be wrong, but I hope not.

About $300 in hoses later they are being shipped to me. Now I wait.

The 6th hose was slightly larger and for return flow from the shifter. It was actually in good condition so I will leave it alone for now. It is in a much easier location to change later if needed.

I had hoped to steam clean everything again before reinstalling but the steam cleaner I can borrow is broken. So it may go back together semi dirty.

Next while I wait will be to change the input seal on the transmission, and output on torque converter.

[louie figone]

Dan, I had to replace those hoses back in '76, they were available through IH at that time, then in 2010 I needed to replace another hose, I found a place in Fremont CA that had that hose size and fittings, same problem you are having with the hex, I took the hex size down to 7/16 inch on the belt sander, anything bigger you will not be able to install the hose.

[Binderdan]

I figured I couldn't be the only one with this problem. I wouldn't have thought of using a sander to shrink the fitting hex.

The new hoses I had made showed up today! They sure look nice. I think they should work nice too. Inside diameter is ever so slightly smaller but hopefully it wont be an issue. The upper hose is the NOS Komatsu-Dresser hose.

While I waited for the hoses to come I got busy with the transmission input seal. I was rather surprised to see that the driveshaft just pulled right out of the transmission. No bolts through the yoke. The yoke showed very slight wear from the original seal but I cleaned it up a bit and I think it will be fine. The old seal did not give up easily! I tried a few peaceful methods of removal before resorting to violence to remove it.

The new seal was a National Oil Seal part number 473238. The original seal was very well made and the new seal wasn't nearly the quality but the rubber was much more pliable than the hardened original seal.

I put some oil on the yoke and slid the driveshaft back on the transmission. A fairly easy job despite the battle removing the old seal. Having the engine and torque converter out made a big difference.

[hardtail]

Enjoying the journey, can't believe you didn't wash it before you started 😁

[Binderdan]

I actually did wash it once the engine and torque converter was out but the burner wouldn't work on the pressure washer so it didn't do a very good job. Although I spent about 2 hours with a pry bar breaking up about 100 lbs of dirt packed around the transmission and frame. There is soooo much!

I decided it was time to reinstall the torque converter onto the engine. I sprayed some brake cleaner around the bell housing and flywheel to remove the dirt and such that had collected while it was exposed to the elements. I installed one of my new flexplates onto the torque converter using the original bolts and inner ring.

I had to lift the torque converter assembly into place by hand this time since the little Hough HA would be difficult to use for installation without a second person to help.

After lifting the torque converter assembly into place and aligning the bolt holes I started a couple of the top bolts to relieve having to hold the torque converter up by myself. Then started all of them and tightened them all up.

I never did replace the ring gear. With a nearly $500 price tag I decided the old one wasn't bad enough to justify the expense. I hope I don't regret that. it looks like most of the deformation is on the back side of the ring gear. Kinda odd. Looks to be a directional gear so I don't think someone ever flipped it.

I stuck my hand through the access panel and all the clearances looked good, and the torque converter spun easily and smoothly. Each two bolts that hold the flexplate to the flywheel have a metal strap connecting them. Through the access panel I started each set of bolts through their corresponding strap. I had to wait to torque them until all eight bolts were started and finger tight, otherwise holes didn't line up exactly. Then I torqued them all through the access cover.

With the flexplate tightened the original problem is now corrected! So it feels like I'm making progress!

The rear pump drives are open to the internals of the torque converter gearbox and bearings so I did my best to cover it in case it rains or gets windy and blows dirt.

[Rawleigh99]

Lookin' good!!

[Binderdan]

With one more seal to change out before I can try to reinstall the engine I figure I'd better get on it. Time to change out the torque converter output seal.

I removed the bolt holding the yoke onto the torque converter output shaft and the yoke pulled out easily. The old seal wasn't in too bad of shape but it was starting to get kinda hard. There was light scarring on the yoke sealing surface but some Scotchbrite cleaned most of it up.

The new seal I have for the torque converter output is an original OEM Komatsu seal part number 619982C91.

Just like the transmission input seal this one didn't give up without a fight, as I tore it up pretty bad removing it. Unlike the new transmission input seal this new komatsu seal was of very good quality and just like the original.

I drove the new seal in with a large socket until flush with the output flange. Then after a light coating of Hy-Tran on the sealing lip I reinstalled the yoke and retaining bolt.

A surprisingly easy job actually. So with some extra time before the New Mexico sun came out in full force I went ahead and completed a valve adjustment while the engine was out.

The cast iron valve cover was nice compared to the stamped steel cover of my other IH Neuss engines in the backhoe and loader. Someone had been in there before and just used silicone and no gasket. So this took a while to clean off the surfaces.

The valve adjustment called for .010" Intake , and .012" Exhaust "cold" per the IH 100C operators manual. The adjustments were not far off but made me feel good to have it done.

After I was done I had to clean the surfaces again as the New Mexico dirt and dust was everywhere. I wish I had been able to power wash the engine at some point but it didn't happen and there was no time now.

I installed a new valve cover gasket from Case IH part number 3136768R3 and put a light coat of Permatex Ultra Black on both sides(not shown).

Then reinstalled the valve cover. The cast valve cover should be way less prone to warping and deformation than the steel ones on my other machines with Neuss engines.

[Binderdan]

I removed all the old shift control hoses except the larger return line as it was in pretty good condition. I labeled all 5 on one end in accordance with the image reference numbers in the parts book. Five total hoses, two are shorter (#20, #21), and three are long (#22, #23, #37).

I first installed the ends into the block on the shifter end. Neither end of the hose has swivels so this end must be installed first and it is most easily done when you can lay the hose straight as you rotate it threading it into the block. The lower rear (lower right in photo) is the larger return line I did not replace. It may have been easier if I had removed the two bolts to remove the block but there were O-rings underneath (1x Case IH 352221R1 superseded to 9672467, and 5x 355966R1 superseded to 128999) I did not have replacements on hand for so I opted to do it in place. The new hoses were much easier to get a wrench on since they were so much more slender, but has the same 7/16" hex as the originals. The internal diameter is a bit smaller at 3/16" vs the originals being 1/4" but the hole down inside the fittings looked very similar in size. I do not believe high flow occurs in these shift hoses, more so just directing pressures.

Here is a photo of the hoses laying across the seat area after threading them all into the shifter block. With the steel braided exterior I was a little concerned about them chaffing other hoses so since all other hoses are installed I may wrap a few in places.

I straightened out the hoses and used zip ties to keep the bundle organized as I routed the hoses down along the frame and to the front of the transmission. The original hoses were wrapped in a rubber or leather strap with a buckle every so often. I may reinstall these later but the heavy zip ties should work nicely for now. You can see the blue tape labels on the opposite ends of the hoses with the numbers on them so I'll know which fittings to hook them to on the transmission.

As I hooked up the ends to the transmission I tried to find the best routing. This was difficult because some of the other hoses may move once the torque converter is in place and everything else is hooked up. The transmission end of the hoses was also not a swivel but there was an angled fitting on the transmission at each location with a nut that spun freely to thread onto the hose. I'll come back later from underneath and add any wrap or sleeve to prevent chafing.

Now that the hoses are installed I think we are ready to reinstall the engine next! How exciting! After the year of sitting exposed you can see the dirt that has collected on the drive side of the pumps. This will need cleaned off before re-installation on the torque converter housing because this open face of the pumps is open to the inside of the converter.

I see the hydraulic pump (pump on right side of photo) has stayed oily and I suspect the top suction O-ring may need replacing. I will order it and have it ready when it is back together. You can still get to it when everything is back together. The top suction O-ring is part number 707253R1 superseded to Case IH 17289480.

[louie figone]

Coming together very nice Dan, I like the steel braided hoses.

[mmi]

Is there a reason you opted not for the upgrade to swivels even if they had been separate fittings in blocks ? I have done staggered x fitting to get more clearance in those tight blocks.

Similar to wire loom they make hose loom like old style office phone coil cords.

Neighbor picked up newer tractor last week hoses like that were routed thru battery compartment,it promptly caught fire +- $300 damage

[Binderdan]

Thanks Louie!

Upgrading the ends to swivel did cross my mind for the one end on the shifter block. But the swivels were more expensive, fatter in an already tight spot, and not really needed unless I would want to remove them starting with the shifter block side. The fittings on the transmission have a nut that spins freely. If there had only been four fittings in the block I would have put 45 degree fittings on them to spread them apart and I could have used the fatter hose fittings, but since there are six I wouldn't have had clearance to install fittings for the center two.

I was thinking I may wrap the hoses that contact other chaffable items with the wrap like you mention like phone cord or the convoluted tubing or wire loom NAPA sells to prevent damage. It looks as if the only place chaffing will be a concern for these is one of the shift hoses on the big hoses on the bottom of the transmission.

Oh my! I could see how braiding like these would chafe through a battery cable or fuel line and could end badly! I will definitely make an effort to prevent that.

[Binderdan]

The time has come! The post so many have been eagerly awaiting! lol! Time to install the engine before I have to leave for my work trip!

(Not sure why some of the pictures are upside down, they show up correct on my computer)

I began by cleaning the dirt and grease off of the hydraulic pump and transmission charge pump mounting face. The mounting face for both pumps are exposed to the inner workings, oil and bearings of the torque converter so must be clean! I got them cleaned up with some brake cleaner and installed two new O-rings IH part number 468339R1 which supersedes to CNH 87421147 one for each pump.

Using some petroleum jelly I pre lubed the O-rings and installed them onto the pumps, and gave the splines some lube as well. This would be much more difficult if I waited until just before installing the pumps into the torque converter.

The torque converter side needed a little cleaning as well. Even though I had the two openings covered the New Mexico dirt gets everywhere! Some brake cleaner and a rag and I was able to clean off any debris. I need to monitor this area as I install the engine/torque converter assembly not to allow dirt to get into these areas, and I have to guide the pumps into place before seating the engine into the machine. The right one drives the transmission charge pump, and the left one drives hydraulic pump.

As you can see I am employing my International 4500B forklift for this installation. This should be easier to make fine adjustments than using the 510 Payloader I removed the engine with. Also when I removed the engine lift height was almost an issue with the 510, but the 4500B will lift much higher. One of the forks has a hole in it so I put a clevis in the hole to prevent the lifting chains from accidentally sliding off the fork, the other side had no hole so an old C clamp was my safety measure. I had to measure the distance from the front engine mounting spot to the highest obstacle on the machine to ensure the lifting chains were long enough to clear everything. 

I really wish I had been able to power wash this engine/torque converter assembly before reinstalling but with my job there just wasn't time, and the power washer is still having issues.

It took a bit of maneuvering to get the forklift where I wanted it. I needed to be fully side shifted forward so once the engine was low enough I could sideshift aft to install the pumps and driveshaft.

Once I got the forklift positioned where I liked it I lowered the engine into place slowly. Unfortunately I was working by myself, I had offers to help but during the hottest part of the day and I wanted to get this done before the death star(sun) came out in full force. I know, its dangerous to do this alone, but time isn't on my side.

You can see the bucket cylinder sticks up very high, this was the height issue when removing the engine.

Once the torque converter output area was below the dash panel I could sideshift aft. Little bits at a time so I could try to reach in and align and install the pump splines. I checked with a mirror for falling debris, thankfully none. Definitely not easy to reach in and manipulate the pumps but the transmission charge pump went in fairly easily, the hydraulic pump however fought me. It doesn't have much freedom of movement due to a hard suction line. I had to pull the flywheel inspection cover and rotate the flywheel while rocking the pump and the splines finally slipped into place. Then I could sideshift further aft and slide both pumps fully into place and install the bolts. The driveshaft slip yoke actually pushed into the transmission far enough I could hook the driveshaft up later.

The next challenge was aligning the rear engine mounts. They were a fairly tight fit within the sides of the frame but I had aligned the old dirt marks and got it very close. When the bolt holes were aligned I lowered the engine the last half inch into place and installed the bolts on the rear mounts (the ones I had made). I left the bolts slightly loose until I had the front mount bolts in. The rear mounts supported the weight just fine, I saw no deflection when weight was applied to them.

The front mounts were a bit more of a challenge. I had chased all the threads for the mounts prior to installing the engine, and bought all new bolts because a couple of the originals had questionable threads. But the front engine mounts seemed to be about a 1/8" too far forward. I'm not sure how this could be unless the mounts I made were off center(but I know they weren't) or the engine sagging for all those years had tweaked the front mount bar forward slightly? Using a large pry-bar and block of wood I was able to push one side back enough to get the bolt started. The other side took even more persuasion. I finally got both bolts started and then tightened both front bolts, and all four rear mount bolts.

The engine and torque converter were finally back in their home! Such a relief! Anything else I get done before I leave is a bonus! So far it looks like my home made engine mounts are a success, but I'll wait until running the engine to claim that.

 

[just Dave]

You are going deep on this project so far. Any thoughts on track chain?