The greenie thread

[OFFTHEFARM]

45 minutes ago, marty966 said:

Our experience has been, we usually end up spending more on the baler than the tractor. Each to his own.

What kind of squre baler are you buying? You talking large squares?

[OFFTHEFARM]

28 minutes ago, marty966 said:

Yeah but that`s a CVT. There is a difference

The ivt is literally based on Fendts cvt.

[marty966]

1 minute ago, OFFTHEFARM said:

The ivt is literally based on Fendts cvt.

Totally different transmissions, Any Agco guys can comment.

[lotsaIHCs]

26 minutes ago, OFFTHEFARM said:

The ivt is literally based on Fendts cvt.

That's what I thought. Fendt is described as an "intelligent cvt". Besides, it was a joke. Green tractor. 

IVT (Infinitely Variable Transmission) is John Deere's brand name for their version of a CVT (Continuously Variable transmission)

This from the web, from goooooogle fwiw.

[OFFTHEFARM]

29 minutes ago, marty966 said:

Totally different transmissions, Any Agco guys can comment.

They are different no argument there. Deere definitely leaned pretty hard on the patent payments they gave to Fendt to develop IVT.

[OFFTHEFARM]

28 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

That's what I thought. Fendt is described as an "intelligent cvt". Besides, it was a joke. Green tractor. 

IVT (Infinitely Variable Transmission) is John Deere's brand name for their version of a CVT (Continuously Variable transmission)

This from the web, from goooooogle fwiw.

I'm not razzin ya. Just conversation.

[lotsaIHCs]

3 minutes ago, OFFTHEFARM said:

I'm not razzin ya. Just conversation.

Yep. I'm in agreement with ya! Sometimes intent gets lost in text form!

[marty966]

12 minutes ago, OFFTHEFARM said:

They are different no argument there. Deere definitely leaned pretty hard on the patent payments they gave to Fendt to develop IVT.

Early 6000 and small frame 7000 series IVT featured the ZF transmission, Large frame 7000 and 8000 series are JD designed IVT, Suppose that is common knowledge. I will take your word about the Deere patent payments to Fendt, although that`s a different design.

[lotsaIHCs]

It's funny. When I worked at a new car dealership we'd get people telling us they didn't want any car with an IVT because it was just a glorified snowmobile transmission. And I will say they had their problems. Originally they were marketed as a Continuously Variable Transmission, or an Infinitely Variable Transmission, then they changed it to an Intelligent Variable Transmission. Still the same concept. I'm not saying they were bad, just different than what most people were used to. They programmed in fake shift points, trying to get customers to accept them. But the thing with the IVT, when they failed, they failed completely. No limp in mode where it was locked in 3rd gear. It just didn't work. I've had more than one just quit while on a diagnostic test drive. I don't know if tractor IVT/CVT is the same, but would think similar.

[dale560]

4 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

It's funny. When I worked at a new car dealership we'd get people telling us they didn't want any car with an IVT because it was just a glorified snowmobile transmission. And I will say they had their problems. Originally they were marketed as a Continuously Variable Transmission, or an Infinitely Variable Transmission, then they changed it to an Intelligent Variable Transmission. Still the same concept. I'm not saying they were bad, just different than what most people were used to. They programmed in fake shift points, trying to get customers to accept them. But the thing with the IVT, when they failed, they failed completely. No limp in mode where it was locked in 3rd gear. It just didn't work. I've had more than one just quit while on a diagnostic test drive. I don't know if tractor IVT/CVT is the same, but would think similar.

I think most auto ivt are a belt or chain variable drive trans. Tractor ivt are a Combo of hydrostatic pump and a gear drive powershift. They are not like the original IH hydro and range. They have a planet ring the hydro slows down or speeds up in each speed. A lazy way to explain.

[lotsaIHCs]

3 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I think most auto ivt are a belt or chain variable drive trans. Tractor ivt are a Combo of hydrostatic pump and a gear drive powershift. They are not like the original IH hydro and range. They have a planet ring the hydro slows down or speeds up in each speed. A lazy way to explain.

The ones I worked on were chain drive. When they quit working, they just flat out quit working. There was no repair other than replacement. Nissan also had a lot of problems with them. We had a sister dealership that was Nissan so I heard quite a lot about them.

[Big Bud guy]

30 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I think most auto ivt are a belt or chain variable drive trans. Tractor ivt are a Combo of hydrostatic pump and a gear drive powershift. They are not like the original IH hydro and range. They have a planet ring the hydro slows down or speeds up in each speed. A lazy way to explain.

JD tried that chain drive IVT back in the late 60s and almost put it into production.  Think it was called the MIV.

[acem]

I have a friend who bought some new JD ivt/cvt years ago. 

He said they were great when new but are getting troublesome and expensive to have repaired.  Too complicated.

He's replacing them with 4430s.

I suggested boxcar Magnums but he's not willing to drive an hour and a half for a dealer when JD has two dealers less than an hour away.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I have one green IVT. It’s ok. I don’t think it works any better for what we do than a powershift. I don’t really see how any company could think that it will/would single-handedly save their business. I remember when Fendt had it and every farm magazine said it was over for every other manufacturer. Nobody is going to buy anything but a Fendt once it hits the market. It is just that revolutionary. I have heard Fendt has some popularity in some areas, but I can count on one hand the number of Fendt tractors I have seen working in my entire life. They are nowhere to be found here. I baled a lot of hay with a 15 speed powershift when I was young and never even once thought I needed something different. On a Deere transmission cost is basically the same between powershift and IVT last time I checked. And they both will fail with hard use and probably less hours than you’d think. 

[Big Bud guy]

17 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I have one green IVT. It’s ok. I don’t think it works any better for what we do than a powershift. I don’t really see how any company could think that it will/would single-handedly save their business. I remember when Fendt had it and every farm magazine said it was over for every other manufacturer. Nobody is going to buy anything but a Fendt once it hits the market. It is just that revolutionary. I have heard Fendt has some popularity in some areas, but I can count on one hand the number of Fendt tractors I have seen working in my entire life. They are nowhere to be found here. I baled a lot of hay with a 15 speed powershift when I was young and never even once thought I needed something different. On a Deere transmission cost is basically the same between powershift and IVT last time I checked. And they both will fail with hard use and probably less hours than you’d think. 

I have one IVT in a JD floater.  Works very good for the job.  Much better then a hydro and more convenient then a powershift.  Also had two identical loader tractors except one had the IVT and the other the 20 speed Powerquad or whatever.  The IVT worked fine but when we traded them in we went with the PQ.  The IVT was $70,000 more per tractor and I couldn't see the IVT was worth that much more.  I've only seen Fendts at the dealership and farm show.  My Case dealer did take one in on trade recently here.  

[Big Bud guy]

59 minutes ago, acem said:

I have a friend who bought some new JD ivt/cvt years ago. 

He said they were great when new but are getting troublesome and expensive to have repaired.  Too complicated.

He's replacing them with 4430s.

I suggested boxcar Magnums but he's not willing to drive an hour and a half for a dealer when JD has two dealers less than an hour away.

There must be more that story.  Why would you drop all the way down to 4430s when you go two series newer and get twice the tractor.  

[Chester5732]

6 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I have one green IVT. It’s ok. I don’t think it works any better for what we do than a powershift. I don’t really see how any company could think that it will/would single-handedly save their business. I remember when Fendt had it and every farm magazine said it was over for every other manufacturer. Nobody is going to buy anything but a Fendt once it hits the market. It is just that revolutionary. I have heard Fendt has some popularity in some areas, but I can count on one hand the number of Fendt tractors I have seen working in my entire life. They are nowhere to be found here. I baled a lot of hay with a 15 speed powershift when I was young and never even once thought I needed something different. On a Deere transmission cost is basically the same between powershift and IVT last time I checked. And they both will fail with hard use and probably less hours than you’d think. 

Fendt is very popular here with the Dutch and the manure haulers.  If your near any large farm it’s not uncommon to see a half dozen of them at a time. 

[lotsaIHCs]

In my area there more CIH Quad Tracks than anything. There are some JDs but I'm seeing a Fendt here and there. New Holland seems to be making some inroads too. A neighbor, who has been solid JD for years has an older Versatile and a New Holland for his big tractors. My cousin, who farms our land to the west has been running blue for quite a while but has several 66 and 86 IHs that he uses. He buys those things up whenever he runs across a good deal. The guy who rents the land where I live runs CIH quads and an older Versatile. He had a JD for a little while but I haven't seen it for quite a while. As far as baling tractors go, whatever my cousin is running is the best. We get every 5th bale he makes. I'll take the 20% off the hay land and let him decide which tractor he wants to use!

[Big Bud guy]

3 hours ago, Chester5732 said:

Fendt is very popular here with the Dutch and the manure haulers.  If your near any large farm it’s not uncommon to see a half dozen of them at a time. 

Same here.  Up in Canada a place I know nothing about, Fendts are way more popular with the newer Dutch population than the older North American generation.  Only Fendt I care to own is the big two track with the Mann engines 

[acem]

20 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

There must be more that story.  Why would you drop all the way down to 4430s when you go two series newer and get twice the tractor.  

He's had a 4430 for decades and it has given very little trouble other than routine things like AC, etc. When he does have problems the repairs are reasonably inexpensive. Very low cost of ownership.

His IVT/CVT were great. Now they keep having sensor and various electrical problems. Has to call the dealer to diagnose and repair. Cost of ownership is high.

He buys very nice 4430s for under $20,000 down here and goes through the AC, etc. He thinks the 4430 is a better buy than the 4440. 

Not sure how many acres they are ranching but they run over 600 mommas, background the calves and retain ownership at the feedlot. Should be cutting a fat hog with cattle prices like they are.

[dale560]

10 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Same here.  Up in Canada a place I know nothing about, Fendts are way more popular with the newer Dutch population than the older North American generation.  Only Fendt I care to own is the big two track with the Mann engines 

The one popular here is the challenger with the c18 cat. They can go to 800 hp.

 

Fendt tractors are making inroads here. A lot of John Deere being traded in on them and case ih is pretty nonexistent here in loader tractor area.

[acem]

I don't think I've ever seen a Fendit tractor in person. Don't know where a Fendit dealer is.

I have seen a tractor at the Claas dealer in Stuttgart. Kinda odd looking to me.

 

[lotsaIHCs]

24 minutes ago, dale560 said:

The one popular here is the challenger with the c18 cat. They can go to 800 hp.

 

Fendt tractors are making inroads here. A lot of John Deere being traded in on them and case ih is pretty nonexistent here in loader tractor area.

Loader tractors a ways south of you are seldom CIH. I'd say that market is split between JD and NH. That's newer tractors anyway. There's still a lot of 06 series on up into the 86 series still around with loaders. Same goes with JD of those eras. But for modern FWD with loaders JD and NH have that market. Big tractors are the CIH quads, then NH and JD. There are a few Fendts around but I don't think I've seen a Claas in the field locally.

[dale560]

32 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

Loader tractors a ways south of you are seldom CIH. I'd say that market is split between JD and NH. That's newer tractors anyway. There's still a lot of 06 series on up into the 86 series still around with loaders. Same goes with JD of those eras. But for modern FWD with loaders JD and NH have that market. Big tractors are the CIH quads, then NH and JD. There are a few Fendts around but I don't think I've seen a Claas in the field locally.

There was a younger lady sales person in Minot at  cat dealer  for a bit. She changed a lot of those guys out of John Deere to challenger and fendt.Since the maxxum 5200 series ended case ih lost a lot of utility tractor share. There is the odd newer one but as you said more newholland. John Deere thought is all around and fendt then kubota. Older JD, iH , case and ford are around to yet.

[hillman]