656 pto quit

[sandhiller]

I have a pto pump on my 656 to run the loader

It has been working fine, no problems 

Last load, 4 bales loaded, 5th bale getting ready to set on the trailer

Had no response from loader levers

reached back to pull up the pto lever because for about the last year it is weak where it stays in "on" position. Hit a bump for example and the lever will drop down, effectively shutting off pto

Pulled up the lever and nothing. 

Pto is not spinning

The lever "feel" is normal, plunger is moving up

Any Idea's gentlemen?

 

Second part of this question

I found a set of pioneer couplers in the back seat and pulled the hoses off pto pump, put couplers on and hooked up to tractor hyd's. 

I was able to get the last of the trailer loaded but it really struggled with the 1400# bales. 

Get about 4 foot off the ground and quit

I know I was good on hytran level when I started but I will check in the morning. 

 

I either need to get the pto working or use the tractor hyd's, hope i'm just low on fluid but maybe not making enough pressure

Got about 200 bales left to haul home. 

 

If this needs to be two different threads, I'll split em after I check level to rule that out. 

 

[snoshoe]

The handle dropping is a good way to shear that little pin in the valve. That is probably what happened. The overcenter triangle part of the linkage is probably quite loose is why the handle keeps dropping. A cab lever cures the shearing problem.

Need a gauge in one of those couplers. If you have 1600 psi you need a higher pressure relief valve. If you don't then you are leaking pressure somewhere. Could be a weak pump but think you would notice in steering

[sandhiller]

Pin shearing sounds very reasonable, how exactly do I get to it?

Thought about replacing that lever to something more convenient so will look at that also. 

 

Steering is real good so will put pressure gauge on it tommorro

Thank you sir!

 

[snoshoe]

Unhook top of spool and remove block and locknut (if equipped). Put a pan under and remove plug under spool. Drop parts out and reinstall plug until spool is reassembled and ready to install.

[HydroTek]

400518 was the number for the pin
likely has changed

you can also use a roller from a U-joint if you have one of the correct diameter

[sandhiller]

14 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Unhook top of spool and remove block and locknut (if equipped). Put a pan under and remove plug under spool. Drop parts out and reinstall plug until spool is reassembled and ready to install.

Im a visual learner and I'm just not seeing it. 

trying to find a drawing in the service manual I have but have not come across it yet. 

If not maybe when I get back with the tractor (20 miles to the north with the hay) I'll be able to see what you are talking about

[sandhiller]

May be getting closer 

[snoshoe]

In position A the little dot you see in the spool just above inlet port is the pin.

[snoshoe]

If pin is sheared. The bottom stem, the spring and the actual valve will fall out. The upper stem you will have to push down free of the seal. Rest of the parts will stay in there. 

[TroyDairy]

I believe if you sat on a 5g bucket behind tractor tomorrow and stare at the valve you will quickly see what is being described.  The pin is ink pen metal tip size.  I am shocked they last decades.  Few wrenches and needle nose plus 15 20 min you'll have her fixed up

[mrfred54]

Bottom draw bar support will have to be removed to install the spool. Where the nut threads on the spool at the top, count the number of turns when you remove it. The spool has a small hole in it to insert a small pin punch to hold the spool while removing the nut. This is also where the pressure is set for the clutch pack. Small plug on the side of the unit, next to the spool is the psi test port. If your linkage is as worn as bad as you describe you are probably low on psi. Good idea to check it

[sandhiller]

Thank you for the instructions, great help.

However, woke up to no REA this morning and Generac is off with a low oil pressure alarm.

Hoping it is just a bad sensor.

Need to get electricity for mother and corrals and barn before tractor gets any attention.

🤞🤞 I get to everything today🙏🙏

[sandhiller]

11 hours ago, HydroTek said:

400518 was the number for the pin
likely has changed

you can also use a roller from a U-joint if you have one of the correct diameter

That is still the correct number

He didn't have one on the shelf and is checking with their other store to see if they have one

[756puller]

Didn't you have a parts 656 or was that a 560?

[sandhiller]

57 minutes ago, 756puller said:

Didn't you have a parts 656 or was that a 560?

Dammit, forgot all about the parts 656 hydro 

Thanks for reminding me!

I'll look at it, might be good or might be was worn as this one was but I'll check

Also have a parts 560

[HydroTek]

1 hour ago, sandhiller said:

That is still the correct number

He didn't have one on the shelf and is checking with their other store to see if they have one

1/16" x 1/2" 

McMaster has a bag of 50 for $14 

[756puller]

Might be worth a shot to drop oil and pull pto and swap them. It's an oring seal not a gasket and there's two shorter bolts that hold both halves together so watch that so you don't do complete disassembly coming out.

[sandhiller]

Going to run up there in a bit and see if I can run the loader with tractor hyds well enough to get done loading 

Then look at PTO when I can get it back to home shop

 

Guy I'm buying hay from offered me the use of his loader tractor 

I just hate borrowing stuff but not taking that off the table

 

I could even take my SM up there, it would sure enough get the job done

 

Lots of options since I got forks on the 510 to yard bales here at home 

[756puller]

It's be definitely a lot easier to borrow the loader if it's there. I know guys feel bad about borrowing but if it gets the job done what the ****.

[sandhiller]

Ok

If I take my time and work the bale a bit I can get loaded.

The proof with a bale showing how high it will go. Not very but enough 

I checked pressure with my home made flow and pressure gauges.

1500psi is close to 1600 and may just be my cheap gauge.

My dealer parts guy found a pin for the PTO at the other store.

I also asked about a higher pressure relief for the 656. I remember putting one in the 966 when I went from a chain to a belt baler. Took more oomph to raise the tailgate 

He will ask Terry (head mechanic) what I need if it's available.

If I do both fixes I will have two options to power the loader.

Part of the problem is that loader is designed to work with newer tractors and the smaller lines create a lot of heat with my old system 

But I would still rather find a way to keep the old girl running rather than dump money on a new tractor 

[snoshoe]

66 series would be 2000 psi. I would think that would be enough. If it quits going over relief every time you try to raise it. You will find it makes a lot less heat. There are higher pressure relief valves but that just puts more strain on things when if hits end of stroke.

I just thought of something else. Hitch pump will still be operating at the lower pressure. That will still create heat but at lower flow rate.

[HydroTek]

Take the snap ring and screen out of the current relief
pull the relief cartridge out and turn the screw 1/2 turn inward
the screw is staked with a punch , so use a good flathead and a vice

check the pressure afterwards to see where you are
those relief valves are all the same -- just different pressure settings 

Looks like a heavy loader and that grapple will take more pressure just to raise the bare loader

I load bales with my 656 , but I have a standard loader and no extra weight of a grapple 

[stronger800]

I bet there is even a YouTube video on that pin.  
 

I just looked, first one that comes up is painful to watch 

“Farmall 706 PTO Fix” 

but when you see that fairly inexperienced sounding guy do it  in just a few minutes, outside with a bucket and pliers, you’ll  think -Oh I can do that now 

[sandhiller]

4 hours ago, stronger800 said:

I bet there is even a YouTube video on that pin.  
 

I just looked, first one that comes up is painful to watch 

“Farmall 706 PTO Fix” 

but when you see that fairly inexperienced sounding guy do it  in just a few minutes, outside with a bucket and pliers, you’ll  think -Oh I can do that now 

Sounds like my operation 😄

[sandhiller]

7 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Take the snap ring and screen out of the current relief
pull the relief cartridge out and turn the screw 1/2 turn inward
the screw is staked with a punch , so use a good flathead and a vice

check the pressure afterwards to see where you are
those relief valves are all the same -- just different pressure settings 

Looks like a heavy loader and that grapple will take more pressure just to raise the bare loader

I load bales with my 656 , but I have a standard loader and no extra weight of a grapple 

Good info, save me from buying another just set different from IH

I will give that a try also