Coolant filter conditioner?

[acem]

 

The Coolant filters in my manuals for 1400 series combines, 86 series tractors, etc look different than the ones CIH sells now. The ones in manuals are longer than the new ones.

Are they completely interchangeable?

The manual says they contain the coolant conditioner needed when changing coolant.

I'm changing my coolant in my 886 while I have it drained to put in a new block heater.

Thx-Ace 

[Tad Wicks]

The coolant filter that IH put "86" series and 300 and 400 series engine was one of the best things they ever did. I have a 1974 model 453  Hillside combine  (615  Flatlander)with the D360 that came without the filter. I put one on about 1977, it was the shorter filter, but it filled up two or three filters with mud or rust in no time at all. The tired original engine is still in that combine after 50 years and who knows how many hours, I lost track after 10K hours years ago and I attribute all that to that little filter with the sacrificial element. Most of the local combines and tractors were eating up sleeves in less than a 1000 hours.

[HydroTek]

Those filters come in different SCA doses -- also some are only plain filters with no SCA inside

So, length determines how much SCA you are getting -- the amount is specified by the filter manufacturer -- check their charts

There is a test kit so you know how much SCA to add to your system -- the small filter is a "maintenance dose"

Oh yeah, green antifreeze is used with the SCA treatment -- the "extended life" stuff will counteract the SCA

[Drysleeves]

Isn't a 453 the successor to the 403 Hillside?

[Doezer]

5 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Oh yeah, green antifreeze is used with the SCA treatment -- the "extended life" stuff will counteract the SCA

so will this counteract with the water filter with a pill on a d436 in our hydro 186? Because it just started getting antifreeze on the top of the dipstick and our local ih mechanic put his pressure tester on it and had the block heater plugged in overnight and it didn’t drop any pressure. There’s also more blow by than normal. Sorry @acem don’t want to hijack your thread. Just wondering if this antifreeze from Napa screwed up a liner or liner o ring. 

[acem]

No worries.

Antifreeze/coolant/conditioner is very confusing these days. I have a degree in chemical engineer and it's hard for me to figure it out.

I've been using green antifreeze with the coolant filter/conditioner forever.

I would like to get a test set for the additives. However I think you need to use a kit that matches your additives. I don't know which additives to use with the CIH filter/conditioner. I know better than to mix different additive types.

Thx-Ace 

[HydroTek]

Anti-freeze is not as simple as it was years ago for sure -- with all the different formulations these days

The old green stuff was a base ph -- the newer stuff is an acid

That is over simplifying tho -- the subtleties go much farther
...and getting past the advertisement on the label, to get to the formulation
will take you to reading the SDS sheets to try to figure the type

"long life" and "extended life" are marketing buzz terms
also "universal"

The acid types will damage soldered joints in the cooling system -- so radiator and heater core on the older machines

[acem]

I found a good video from Donaldson about their coolant filters and conditioner. 

I understand CaseIH uses Donaldson filters now.

 

[acem]

Filter and coolant SCA servicing.

They say to not use SCA with the new types of antifreeze.

 

[Doezer]

I think the next time I drain the antifreeze out of that hydro. I’m switching it back to the good old green stuff!

[acem]

It's too confusing having multiple coolants.

Imagine this. I send someone to get some antifreeze to put in some vehicle (car, truck, tractor, whatever). Then I have to explain what kind of antifreeze and that they need to dilute it before adding it. Then they get the wrong jug, coolant turns brown, etc. 

I'm back to using green antifreeze and adjusting the additives as needed. It's worked here for decades and is simple. I'm tired of having brown coolant...

[Tad Wicks]

On 1/13/2024 at 12:04 PM, Drysleeves said:

Isn't a 453 the successor to the 403 Hillside?

Yes there was a 403 flatlander/hillside and a 503 flatland only, 403 went to 453  which was the same as the 715 or 615, I think the only difference was the engine and 503 went to 915. The first of the 453, 1972 vintage had the D301 from the 403 and was changed to the D360 after 73. They were very underpowered with the D301, the D360 certainly had more power but was also very thirsty, both were great engines but the D360 started instantly and D301 had to be glow plugged no matter what. The 300 and 400 series engines were fantastic engines, smooth as silk and extremely reliable

[HydroTek]

4 hours ago, acem said:

It's too confusing having multiple coolants.

Imagine this. I send someone to get some antifreeze to put in some vehicle (car, truck, tractor, whatever). Then I have to explain what kind of antifreeze and that they need to dilute it before adding it. Then they get the wrong jug, coolant turns brown, etc. 

I'm back to using green antifreeze and adjusting the additives as needed. It's worked here for decades and is simple. I'm tired of having brown coolant...

Ya know the anti freeze deposits a protective coating on the metal parts -- science ya know

so, if you have the old green in there and the coating is good and built up -- the water will be that nice green color

change out to one of the new fangled coolants and the old coating will be eaten off -- exposing the metal to oxidation
also the additives in the new coolant will be counteracted -- because of chemistry

Either type will protect the metal surfaces eventually -- but you have to choose and likely flush a couple of times to get the additives all going the same direction

The Ph between the types is opposite

and as I mentioned the acid type (new stuff) will leach the Tin out of the solder in the radiator, causing it to be brittle at the joints

[Drysleeves]

1 hour ago, Tad Wicks said:

Yes there was a 403 flatlander/hillside and a 503 flatland only, 403 went to 453  which was the same as the 715 or 615, I think the only difference was the engine and 503 went to 915. The first of the 453, 1972 vintage had the D301 from the 403 and was changed to the D360 after 73. They were very underpowered with the D301, the D360 certainly had more power but was also very thirsty, both were great engines but the D360 started instantly and D301 had to be glow plugged no matter what. The 300 and 400 series engines were fantastic engines, smooth as silk and extremely reliable

715's had 4 straw walkers like the 403/453. 615 had 3 like a 303 and no diesel engine option.

[acem]

2 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Ya know the anti freeze deposits a protective coating on the metal parts -- science ya know

so, if you have the old green in there and the coating is good and built up -- the water will be that nice green color

change out to one of the new fangled coolants and the old coating will be eaten off -- exposing the metal to oxidation
also the additives in the new coolant will be counteracted -- because of chemistry

Either type will protect the metal surfaces eventually -- but you have to choose and likely flush a couple of times to get the additives all going the same direction

The Ph between the types is opposite

and as I mentioned the acid type (new stuff) will leach the Tin out of the solder in the radiator, causing it to be brittle at the joints

That's what I understand.

I just used antifreeze pre charged with SCA and ended up with brown when the green was mixed in. Shouldn't be a problem but it looks dirty all the time...

[England806]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:28 AM, acem said:

That's what I understand.

I just used antifreeze pre charged with SCA and ended up with brown when the green was mixed in. Shouldn't be a problem but it looks dirty all the time...

Had exactly the same happen. Coolant looks brown and rusty but when you drain it the engine looks really clean in the coolant passages.   I have found the organic acid coolant does attack the solder (it took four or five years to show up) . Had two rads with brittle joints and had to te solder them. 
colors over here don’t seem to bear any relevance to type anymore either. Different manufacturers seem to use different colors for the same product types. 

[acem]

What is coolant?

Specifically engine coolant.

A friend, old oil field mechanic, was taught at a Cat engine training that coolant is whatever fluid is used to cool an engine. It may be water, water/antifreeze, mud from a road ditch or whatever is used by the operators that may contain additives that help (SCA) or hurt (Dirt) engine reliability. As a mechanic he should know how to deal with whatever has been used to keep the equipment operational. Additionally he should correct mistakes and advise operators with better methods (which are unlikely to be followed).

[ComancheStarFarms]

How about a recommendation on the best green coolants to use?  And where to get it?

[ComancheStarFarms]

Please disregard - I just stumbled across another RPF thread where HydroTek gives clear direction.  Thanks for good conversation - frustrating that coolant is such a challenge.

[Tunneldigger]

Thank you for the info!

[acem]

1 hour ago, ComancheStarFarms said:

Please disregard - I just stumbled across another RPF thread where HydroTek gives clear direction.  Thanks for good conversation - frustrating that coolant is such a challenge.

Would you post a link to that thread in here?

That would help us in the future!

[ComancheStarFarms]

Sure!

[ComancheStarFarms]

Paraphrasing HydroTek - - 

Rule of Thumb
if the radiator has lead solder -- use the old green
if the radiator is plastic -- then OAT or HOAT

The main thing is flush the system and use only one type of coolant
pick one that best suits your system and is available

I recommend the Prestone for the older tractors

https://prestone.com/product/prestone-all-vehicles-antifreezecoolant-ready-to-use/

https://www.mycnhstore.com/us/en/caseih/category/fluids-lubricants/coolant/antifreeze/p/73344303

[ComancheStarFarms]

 

[Matt Kirsch]

19 hours ago, ComancheStarFarms said:

How about a recommendation on the best green coolants to use?  And where to get it?

I know the question has been "answered" but I'm going to answer it anyway: Whatever's cheapest. The green stuff is the same no matter who you get it from.