IH Tractors on Montana Farm

[Old Binder Guy]

Heres an old ad from January 1949 showing a piece of machinery that could be put to good use on my driveway today. At -30 degrees I don't think I'd want to ride that open tractor today though.

Notice the error in the caption? They refer to it as an International Harvester tractor. Unless my eyes deceive me, thats a DC4 Case on the snowplow in the picture.

Ralph,

It sure as the heck isn't a Farmall and I'll take your word about a Case DC-4. I could get the Case part right.

I took a picture of my Tournapull belly dump yesterday at Silver Creek for you Ralph. It is the only piece of those pieces of construction equipment I still have that were in my picture a couple of days ago.

I took a picture of this clothes hanger as well. The Judith Commercial Co. was a very short lived entity at Moore(Eddie's Corner), Montana, very early on.

This is a picture of Moore circa 1910, showing the Power Mercantile Co. there, another business financed by TC Power, the Fort Benton(the world's innermost port), Montana Territory businessman my grandfather spent seven years of his life working for. Gary

[664 CDN]

Heres an old ad from January 1949 showing a piece of machinery that could be put to good use on my driveway today. At -30 degrees I don't think I'd want to ride that open tractor today though.

Notice the error in the caption? They refer to it as an International Harvester tractor. Unless my eyes deceive me, thats a DC4 Case on the snowplow in the picture.

Ralph, in your pic of your DC4 a while back the front axle looks like a standard or wheat land axle.

In my Case book by C H Wendel it shows a different front axle much like a farmall adjustable wide front.

The Canadian International farm equipment show, toy collectable this year is a DC4 Case but the wide front is different than the others I have seen pictures of.

Is this a model year thing or were all three available as options?

Ray

[Loadstar]

Heres an old ad from January 1949 showing a piece of machinery that could be put to good use on my driveway today. At -30 degrees I don't think I'd want to ride that open tractor today though.

Notice the error in the caption? They refer to it as an International Harvester tractor. Unless my eyes deceive me, thats a DC4 Case on the snowplow in the picture.

Ralph, in your pic of your DC4 a while back the front axle looks like a standard or wheat land axle.

In my Case book by C H Wendel it shows a different front axle much like a farmall adjustable wide front.

The Canadian International farm equipment show, toy collectable this year is a DC4 Case but the wide front is different than the others I have seen pictures of.

Is this a model year thing or were all three available as options?

Ray

Ray, without checking my books I"d say maybe thats a conversion axle your talking about. I know my Uncle had a DC3 narrow front that he had converted to wide front axle . I have pictures of the DC3 but not with the wide front. I think most in this part of the country were the wide front or "wheatland" style. After WWII when tractors were in short supply I have heard that narrow front tricycle type tractors were brought in to fill the gap until the dealers could get their hands on new wide front tractors.

This pic is not mine but a friend's whose Dad ran this narrow front (SC3?) in 1951. My Uncle's DC3 had the same style front end originally.

[Old Binder Guy]

I went to Great Falls with a retired Montana Highway Patrolman friend yesterday and we attended the annual toy show at the GTF Fairgrounds. I got to see several friends there. I was met incoming by Tubacase47 or Tom Railsback, Gary Larson and Farmall Kid (son Mike) even turned up with his family.

My travel partner and I spent about a half hour talking to Robert Williams of Big Sandy, MT who owns the 747 Big Bud or "World's largest Farm Tractor" which is in Iowa for the time being. They retired it from their farm and use a newer, smaller Big Bud. Originally, I was told there were thre of the 747s built, one being flown in pieces to Hawaii. Robert showed me the build records for all of the Big Buds, as they own the trademark and everything that goes with it. They had the only one built according to those records.

Then we spent about 45 minutes visiting with my friend and genius pencil artist Don Greytak of Havre, MT. If you would wonder if I'm exaggerating, here's his website at the old Library Gallery in Havre...: www.DonGreytak.com and see for yourself. I've never seen anyone who could wield a pencil as Don does. Most of our conversation was in regards to wierd things we witnessed on the farm growing up. Don nearly always ties those experiences and disasters of those memories into his art. He said, "I doubt anyone has ever bought one of my pieces because they were "art" but it undoubtedly related to something they saw happen on the farm or ranch and had to have it for that reason.

I bought a few little things there and here is one of them... a photo of a return flue engine belted to a threshing machine with the crew posing... one of my favorite things.

I got a phenomenal email today that originated with the photographer, Bernard Zee, with photos taken at Edwards Air Force Base of an airshow. I'm posting a couple of his photos here. This first one shows an F-22, a P-38, a F-16 and an A-10 all making a flyby. I didn't identify the second photo's aircraft. Gary

[Old Binder Guy]

I was just passing emails back and forth with my friend Rick Strobel here at Helena. I took this picture of their Wachs stationary steam engine turning their Chase shingle mill this past summer. It'll fit here, as I'm headed to Silver Creek soon.

I bumped into Roland Baker's Field Marshall single cylinder diesel, looking for Rick's photo. I'll post this again too. Gary

[Old Binder Guy]

I went through an old photo album today that used to belong to my aunt. I scanned these three pictures of a camping trip, but may have been a hunting camp? They lived near Helena and worked on a Sheep ranch, so these could have all been workers from that same outfit? Maybe they were all just acquaintances? The first photo shows the women there, taken over a rear fender of a Model T Ford.

This second photo shows the Model Ts and whatever this large touring car is that is closest. You can tell that Henry Ford was putting the common man on wheels!

This was headed out and I think this is that same large touring car stopped in a creek. I'd be curious as to what it is? It may be as simple as a Dodge Brothers, but I still don't know. Gary

[Loadstar]

I went through an old photo album today that used to belong to my aunt. I scanned these three pictures of a camping trip, but may have been a hunting camp? They lived near Helena and worked on a Sheep ranch, so these could have all been workers from that same outfit? Maybe they were all just acquaintances? The first photo shows the women there, taken over a rear fender of a Model T Ford.

This was headed out and I think this is that same large touring car stopped in a creek. I'd be curious as to what it is? It may be as simple as a Dodge Brothers, but I still don't know. Gary

Gary, its amazing how they got around off road and in the rough country with those old cars and no 4WD. But of course people did it here too years ago. Today, even the 4 wheel drive vehicles end up stuck and on their roof sometimes. Like yesterday when the roads turned slick with pavement frost. Good day to stay home.

Heres an old threshing scene from Sask. where everybody lined up for a photo op. Theres even one guy on top of the elevator.

[Old Binder Guy]

That's a great postcard, Ralph. Obviously that guy isn't afraid of heights or tearing his bib overalls.

This is the whole picture of the one I posted a couple of days ago. Ladies & kids and all. I placed it on SmokStak to see if anyone could positively identify it. I'd listed it as "possible Avery" but Avery and Huber were entangled about that time, so it could actually be a Huber return flue, but certainly not the Minneapolis rf I thought it was with the naked eye, when I bought it.

These Averys are much easier for me to identify... the undermounted Avery. This is from an Avery catalog and shows their "Low-Down" feeder on their threshers. Gary

[Old Binder Guy]

My wife is having health problems. I may not be too attentive for a while? Maybe it is time?........

I'm posting a picture from one of my postcards I scanned at Silver Creek recently. This is a one of a kind engine; a Huber return flue "single crank pin, double cylinder" with the "hanging" cylinder. With these cylinders set at 45 degrees, it will start up like any double cylinder steam engine, no matter where the crank pin stops in its rotation cycle. It belongs to Keith Mauzey, somewhere there in the mid-country. I remember as a grade schooler, when this engine was featured on the cover of Iron Men Album and the caption said, "The Dead Has Come To Life." Gary

[Roger Byrne]

OBG posted a few photos of coal burning steamers, well cars can run on coal too. Nowadays, everybody is talking about alternative energies to run vehicles with. Just to show that this is nothing new, here are a couple of Model T's that were set-up to run on coal gas. These were used in England and Europe after WW1 due to the gasoline shortage and rationing that was going on back then. Coal gas (coal-based methane) has been around for a long time and was used for lighting in many towns by the middle of the 1800's. The bags were filled with coal gas but not pressurized. Between gravity and the weight of the bag itself, there was enough pressure to push the gas into the carburetor. The range of these cars was not very far, the taxi in the first photo could travel 15 miles under the right conditions. . . . I'm assuming they didn't let the car sit and idle while they were waiting for a fare.

The snow is pretty deep here in the Mid-West this year and back in the Model T and Fordson era, they had to move snow around too.

[Farmall Doctor]

Gary.. that's a nice photo of the fighters. I noticed the Lockheed P-38 lightning right off...although I am preferanced to the RAF's Dehavaland Mosquito! As am I the Spitfire to the Mustang, although I duly recognise the long range capabilities of the Mustang over the venerable Spit. What an absolute thrill it must have been to get into the cockpit of any of those hotrods of the sky at such a young age and tear up the skies, even though fearing the worst! I have heard stories of the Mosquito pilots catching up to the V1 German buzz bombs and simply tipping wings and throwing them off course...haha.. showoffs! My Grandfather was tailgunner in a Halifax with the RAF, and a good friend who also has passed from our world was a wireless operator and navigator.

Thanks,

Darryn

[Old Binder Guy]

Darryn,

That's interesting about your grandfather and the Halifax. I've always been impressed with WWII aircraft... all of them. My wife's uncle Wayne was an Army Air Force pilot of the Martin "Prostitute" (no visible means of support), B-25 Mitchell bomber and he had a commendation, which I gave to my son a few years ago, for strafing a German munitions train in two passes with a P-38. He said there was lots of explosions and he pierced the boiler of the locomotive as well. He called it a "hotrod" as well.

My friend Jim Smith, north of Whitefish, MT owns the Seafire I posted. It was a spitfire airframe with one of the two engines off of a Haviland Bomber. Britain was developing the plane to intercept the buzz bombs and Hitler's new jets, before they made it across the channel. Notice the counter rotating props. That is so it can be revved on the ground without counter torquing the plane and flipping it on the ground. This is the only one flightworthy in the world, as I remember. Gary

[Old Binder Guy]

Art, Thank you for adding that information. My head wasn't working last night and rather than guessing at a B- number, I left that out. Wayne spoke very highly of that aircraft as well. I forget when Wayne graduated, but he'd have been in his early 20s when the war broke out, but was already a trained pilot for the Army Air Corps. He retired from the USAF as a Lt. Col. around 1970 as I remember. Gary

[M Diesel]

OBG, hope the missus is is doing okay.

Those aircraft photos are great. Dad likes the P51, but a P-38 has always been a personal favorite

Must have been quite an air show to arrange for that complement of birds to show up. Intriguing to see a B1, B2, B52 in the same shot. I'm almost surprised not to see a SR paired with a U2 (or a TR1) together.

And that Huber "V-2" is cool in its own way. Any idea why it didn't catch on? Expense?

PS: I spent 3 weeks getting over some crud like what you had. It's been mostly gone for a week or so.

[Loadstar]

Those aircraft photos are great. Dad likes the P51, but a P-38 has always been a personal favorite

Yes, the Lightning was unique with that twin fuselage design. What sticks in my mind is the name the Germans had for it. just from memory, something like "gabelschwanz teufel". Which roughly translates to fork tailed devil. Although others more familiar with the german language may correct me on that.

Got another old threshing photo here from the 1930s. Not sure of the thresher but thats a Minneapolis tractor. I think at least two of the guys in the photo are still living.

[Roger Byrne]

Ralph, those cross motor Minneapolis tractors are one of the great tractors of that period. They had a lot of reserve power above their rating with a reputation as a very tough engine that stood up very well and are a great tractor to handle in a tight area. From experience, I can tell you they are easy to operate and also very easy on the operator.

[Loadstar]

Ralph, those cross motor Minneapolis tractors are one of the great tractors of that period. They had a lot of reserve power above their rating with a reputation as a very tough engine that stood up very well and are a great tractor to handle in a tight area. From experience, I can tell you they are easy to operate and also very easy on the operator.

Roger, the old Mini does look like a good solid tractor. The cross motor design looked a little strange to me as in a side view there is so much empty space between the engine and the radiator. I have a side view of it running a thresher here somewhere.

I see in the specs you posted that the tractor has a lot bigger kerosene tank than gas. So I'm assuming it ran on kerosene or maybe distillate?

[Old Binder Guy]

OBG, hope the missus is is doing okay.

And that Huber "V-2" is cool in its own way. Any idea why it didn't catch on? Expense?

PS: I spent 3 weeks getting over some crud like what you had. It's been mostly gone for a week or so.

M Diesel,

I'm glad your dad liked those pictures. The missus is a little better today and gets the results of her yesterday's MRI on Tuesday. My crud hangs on but kind of merged with my allergies and that won't seem to go away.

The Huber V-2... It likely failed due to the fact the condensate inside the vertical cylinder would all run to the bottom on the lower cylinder head. If someone were prone to be forgetful about opening the cylinder cocks before opening the throttle, it would likely punch that lower head onto the ground. That's my thoughts on it. Huber also built a side by side double they used on the tops of their road rollers.

Gary

[664 CDN]

Just a test to see if I can post pictures of the progress installing the new engine in my case 446 lawn tractor.

Ray

[664 CDN]

Just a test to see if I can post pictures of the progress installing the new engine in my case 446 lawn tractor.

Ray

Nother picture.

Seems like they are too big to load more than one.

[Delta Dirt]

Here's an encore photo on the P-38 Lightnings---------this is my friend (that I never knew) Richard Wells from Cresent Beach Florida somewhere out over the South Pacific. (this photo was apparently made from one of the bombers that the P-38s were flying escort for) Richard was the older brother of my good buddy Rod Wells (retired out of the Air Force flying B-52s) and then crop dusted here locally with us for 20+ yrs. Rod passed away a couple of Christmas's ago.

Rumor has that those Wells boys burned a lean fuel mixture at altitude-------------and a rich mixture of alchohol at ground level!!!!!!!!!!!! There were some that could fly with Rod-----but most of them wore feathers!!!!! (and I am sure Richard would have been his match------Richard was killed in action while flying a B-25 on a volunteer recon mission for General Douglas McArthur in 1945. (I was all of two years old at the time) One man survived the crash (taking photos from the tail gunner position)-----eventually made it back into camp and reported what had happened.

Richard and the crew's bodies were recovered and returned home after the War. At one time---------Rod disposed of some of Richard's old personal belongings here on our farm (including his old and tattered fleece lined pilots jacket). I have always felt like I knew Richard even though he died when I was nothing but a kid. I have a copy of this picture flying high in my shop office.

Here is the "real McCoy"---P-38

and Rod on a low level pass with a Cessna crop duster (not a landing here)-----that's the mainline Mississippi River Levee in the background

Hoping everything is coming along OK with the Professor's missus. Looks like we are making headway here in Mississippi. Best wishes to Sharon.

Delta Dirt

Avon, Ms 38723

[Loadstar]

Just a test to see if I can post pictures of the progress installing the new engine in my case 446 lawn tractor.

RAy, looks like you will have that Case ready to go by the time the grass needs cutting..

Delta, great story on the Lightning P38s.

And on a somewhat related subject, back in 1948 we had a company here in Winnipeg , Manitoba that manufactured all steel cabs for farm tractors.

The Macdonald Aircraft company advertised in this 1948 Canadian Farm Equipment magazine showing one of their cabs installed on what appears to be a McCormick W6.

I'm not sure what this company's connection was to aircraft though.

[Old Binder Guy]

Just a test to see if I can post pictures of the progress installing the new engine in my case 446 lawn tractor.

RAy, looks like you will have that Case ready to go by the time the grass needs cutting..

Delta, great story on the Lightning P38s.

And on a somewhat related subject, back in 1948 we had a company here in Winnipeg , Manitoba that manufactured all steel cabs for farm tractors.

The Macdonald Aircraft company advertised in this 1948 Canadian Farm Equipment magazine showing one of their cabs installed on what appears to be a McCormick W6.

I'm not sure what this company's connection was to aircraft though.

You guys did a pretty good job of keeping this old monster alive! Top of page two! I ended up going to urgent care myself last night. It felt like I've torn ribs loose or something, coughing. I've had this darn cough for pushing a month now. I got an inhaler gismo and some antibiotics. Sharon is doing slightly better each day now. We get the results of her MRI on Tuesday, to see the deterioration from August, in her brain.

Ralph, I've posted this picture several times but what the hay! This is a WD-9 we had on the farm with a MacDonald cab. I remember the tag mentioning "aircraft" as well, but assume they'd built airplanes of some sort, without going on the internet checking that out. They were the most stylish tractor cab out there at the time. There were two of them on Beaver Creek. My cousin still has his WD-9 with its MacDonald cab. His WD-9 also has the 24.5X32" "donut" tires. My uncle Audie had bought that one new in 1951 when he'd torn his (now mine) TD-40 TracTracTor apart to overhaul and due to backorders of parts couldn't get it together in time for spring work, so naturally while at Bourke Motor & Implement, he inquired about the WD-9 and ended up getting it then. After he got the TD-40 back together completely (crank to pto shaft overhaul) he only used it for a couple of days, years later in a wet year, when the WD-9 couldn't cut it.

Ray, That's going to be a great little tractor when you get it together.

Anson, Thank you for posting those pictures. I thoroughly love the P-38 Lightening! I think the superchargers are behind the machine guns above the engine, on top? I know they're in there somewhere. They had to be scarce "hotrod hardware" on the streets in those days.

Gary

[PALOUSE]

Here's an encore photo on the P-38 Lightnings---------this is my friend (that I never knew) Richard Wells from Cresent Beach Florida somewhere out over the South Pacific. (this photo was apparently made from one of the bombers that the P-38s were flying escort for) Richard was the older brother of my good buddy Rod Wells (retired out of the Air Force flying B-52s) and then crop dusted here locally with us for 20+ yrs. Rod passed away a couple of Christmas's ago.

Rumor has that those Wells boys burned a lean fuel mixture at altitude-------------and a rich mixture of alchohol at ground level!!!!!!!!!!!! There were some that could fly with Rod-----but most of them wore feathers!!!!! (and I am sure Richard would have been his match------Richard was killed in action while flying a B-25 on a volunteer recon mission for General Douglas McArthur in 1945. (I was all of two years old at the time) One man survived the crash (taking photos from the tail gunner position)-----eventually made it back into camp and reported what had happened.

Richard and the crew's bodies were recovered and returned home after the War. At one time---------Rod disposed of some of Richard's old personal belongings here on our farm (including his old and tattered fleece lined pilots jacket). I have always felt like I knew Richard even though he died when I was nothing but a kid. I have a copy of this picture flying high in my shop office.

Here is the "real McCoy"---P-38

and Rod on a low level pass with a Cessna crop duster (not a landing here)-----that's the mainline Mississippi River Levee in the background

Hoping everything is coming along OK with the Professor's missus. Looks like we are making headway here in Mississippi. Best wishes to Sharon.

Delta Dirt

Avon, Ms 38723

Cessna pic brings back some memories around here but in an earlier era. When they were still flying the old wooden Stearmans here fighting bugs in the pea crop they really didn't like to have a couple of guys on the ground waving flags in the midst of dangerous pesticides. Took too long to organize all that anyway. And the development of automatic paper flagging systems hadn't caught up yet. So these devil may care crop dusters would simply leave their wheel marks in the crop, usually right at the crest of a hill while flying up it. I was told that this was so when they turned around and headed back on the next pass they could sight in on last set of tracks from a distance and get all lined up. You could see the plane bounce and the dust would fly as they did this, but they'd do it all day long. Knowing now how old those Stearmans were and how they were built I'm amazed they got away with it. Payload I'm told was about 500 lbs. On a quiet day you could hear them coming a long way. These days, with the turboprops and GPS systems...takes all the thrill out of it.

[Roger Byrne]

A page back, OBG posted an answer to M Diesel's question about the V-2 Huber steam engine. He mentioned the fact the Huber used a double cylinder engine mounted on top of the boiler on their road rollers. Below are photos of the one shown a Forest City, Iowa last year. You will note that it has no steering wheel. If you look at the lower side of the engine, you can see the steam powered steering gear. The lever in the rear would kick the drive gears in and out to steer the roller. One problem with this system is that the engine needs to be running to steer the roller. If you want to move the roller cold, you need to disconnect the steering chains like in the photos below.