986 Air Conditioning

[ComancheStarFarms]

What A/C unit is this?  Everything worked fine & then just stopped - in the middle of baling hay.

[ComancheStarFarms]

Evidently the photos didn’t load, so please disregard.

[HydroTek]

Cab relay still working ?
fan, radio, wiper working and all that 

[ComancheStarFarms]

Yes on everything else still working.  That’s why I was starting to settle on the compressor going bad - locked up.  

I still can’t get my pics to post, which I was going to ask the RPF on advice on a replacement.

[HydroTek]

Tractor originally had a York compressor -- 2 cylinder vertical

Many have been changed to the round Sanko / Sanden compressor 

Can you rotate the pulley by hand ?
some had a dust cover on the front of the pulley -- would need to remove that to see if the clutch can rotate 

When a 986 is changed over to 134 , the oil in the compressor has to be drained and filled with Ester oil 
-- many compressors come with PAG which is not compatible with that tractor 

Something like this is the replacement -- need to check the line connections

Yeah , pictures have been messed up for a few days now -- won't load 

[acem]

Is the fan blowing?

Is the compressor clutch engaging?

Anything sound or look unusual?

Suction line cool? (Big line from cab)

Pressure line hot? (Small line going to the front).

York/tecumseh compressor is rectangular.

Sanden compressor is cylindrical.

[ComancheStarFarms]

Everything else seems fine.  Odor of burnt rubber followed a few moments later with fan-compressor belt flying by.  Led me to suspect the compressor. Compressor looks like the one on the 1976 Ford P/U I almost got the Johnny Cash way at the factory.  Pulley rotates about 1/2 an RPM then stops.  Abilene Machine has a Sanden compressor plus conversion kit (except the TAG oil) for under $350.  As Churchill stated - “now that we’re out of money we’ll need to start thinking.”  I’m at the thinking stage as next hay cutting is a month away - - tractor is our baling tractor.

[HydroTek]

Ester oil -- complete solvent flush -- new expansion valve at the minimum 

Do not use PAG oil unless the system has been thoroughly flushed -- then PAG is the better oil 

Pulley should rotate freely if the bearing is good
the center of the clutch rotates the pump -- this should have a little resistance 

Remove the center bolt
-- then use a short 5/8" bolt to pop the clutch off the compressor 
-- you probably find the carnage then 

[ComancheStarFarms]

Thanks HydroTek

[acem]

Probably a compressor failure but verify first.  Be sure to do a complete flush and replace the expansion valve and dryer/receiver.  The compressor may have sent stuff down throughout the system.

The York and Tecumseh compressors work good.  I have one on my 886 that will condense moisture on the top front of the windshield on a humid day.  The US made compressors are still available.  TCCI I think.

Be sure to check the oil level in the compressor if you add refrigerant.  It tends to leak out with the refrigerant.  Compressors don't live very long without oil. 

HydroTec has some good advice above.

[Lars (midessa)]

22 hours ago, ComancheStarFarms said:

Yes on everything else still working.  That’s why I was starting to settle on the compressor going bad - locked up.  

I still can’t get my pics to post, which I was going to ask the RPF on advice on a replacement.

I’m fairly certain if the compressor ‘locked up’ the belt would have burned off. Check the refrigerant level to confirm the system is not too low.

[ComancheStarFarms]

Acem & Lars, I appreciate your help & insight.  First a/c tractor i’ve owned & bought it thinking it would be “cool” for hay baling.  So far it has been a chore to keep the A/C working.  My son & I did those things you’ve mentioned.  But with my inexperience with A/C I must not have done all correctly.  Finally got it to blow really cold air & 2 hours later the belt went flying & inside cab temp went to 126*.  I’m leaning towards a Sanden conversion unit.  Local CaseIH dealership once quoted $2K to go through & fix everything.  Now I’m hoping to stay below that.  But as we all know - hope is not a very good plan.

[IHC_1470]

What were your pressures when you got it blowing cold? Could you have over charged it?

[acem]

My 886 came with a Sanden conversion.  It locked up and I replaced it with a Tecumseh I found NOS.  Works great but has a slow leak I have been unable to find (needs refrigerant every month or two).

I have had very good luck with quality made York style compressors.  My 1460 ran the same compressor for 20+ years.  

[IHC_1470]

Acem I can beat you on time. Have a 5000 swather that probable still has the original on it. Has IH on the parts tag and I believe a date that would match when those machines were in production. Very seldom needs any juice. On yours look for a dirt collection which would probably be a good indication of a leak. Often as I am sure you know it can be the compressor seal which is easy to change. 

I also have had very good luck with the York style compressor. I only have two Sandens, on the place one came in a kit when I installed A/C in a 4900 truck with a 466. From the factory it would have been the York style. The other is on the Steiger and I believe those came equiped from the factory with that style. 

For the OP it is also quite possible that the system just got low on oil over the years or was not check if a new compressor install. I have never seen a compressor out of the box with the proper amount of oil in it. As was mentioned above it the compressor failed a good flush is in order also replace the parts mentioned. I usually pull the evsporater out of the cab so you can really clean the out side of all the dirt and flush while it is out. Good time to make sure all the foam seals are in good condition. Make sure the foam is good in the lid. Make sure the condensor too.

There is a reason the dealers get big bucks for getting those systems going again as it takes a few hours to do things right. 

[acem]

And BTW, it's not that bad baling without AC.

The twine cutter on my baler is not working so you have to get off every bale and cut it by hand. Cab is just in the way for that.

So I'm baling on an open station 826 in 100F with a heat index of 110F+. 

Plan to fix the twine cutter when I catch up with the hay that is down.

 

[ComancheStarFarms]

IHC_1470 - good Q on your part.  It was about a month ago when we got everything back together & I don’t recall exactly the PSIs but something such as 240/40 at 93 degrees.  And I’m on this forum because I’m not sure what’s going on - including me overcharging or something else incorrectly.

Doesn’t matter to me if I can fix it with a York, Sanden, Magic or a Prayer - as long as it works.

Acem - I agree we can often put up with more than we want.  But at 126 degrees I don’t mind taking the time & investing some cash in trying to figure out how to get the cabin temps down to a more reasonable level.

I once had a mentor never miss a milking in 50 years.  And he told me “that was 35 years ago & I’ve only missed one since then.” 
 

Thanks for all the help folks!

[acem]

Those pressures sound a little low to me but probably ok.

If you still have the service valves to isolate the compressor, you can check the oil level without drawing down the system.

I like to check the compressor oil level at least once a year for non leakers and a few times a year for leakers.

Oil is cheap compared to a compressor.

[IHC_1470]

If you are using R134A those pressures look close. Have you determine if the compressor locked up?

If it were mine I would flush it, replace the dryer, expansion valve, o'rings and move on. Put it into the area of do-do happens. If everything is clean and you start out with correct amount and type oil it should cool very well.

[FARMALL FIXER]

Just a few of my thoughts :

Be sure the radiator is clean. Remove the grill and fold out the condenser and hydraulic oil cooler as well and wash out thoroughly. A common thing I have seen is the radiator being washed out without folding out these and trash gets stuck in between the condenser and oil cooler. This will raise the high side pressure due to diminished air flow, you see air conditioner pressure problems before engine temp over heating. 

Is your belt a little loose ? With higher pressure it may be slipping some resulting in burnt rubber odor.

Freon charge ? It was originally an R12 system with a freon charge of 4.5 lbs.

When converted to 134A the charge is less and usually 80% to 85% ( 3.6 lbs to 3.8 lbs), I charge to 3.8 lbs and seems to work well.

High side restriction ? This can be anywhere from the discharge of the compressor up to the expansion valve. Bad line, receiver drier, condenser,  check valve In behind lower left front cab light, I have seen on occasion problems with the check valve being restricted.

Was the system evacuated before charging ? Air in the system does play nice with cooling.

Plastic plug on top of cab ? Some 86 Series had a plastic plug on the top roof cover and if missing the system can draw hot outside air thru the plug hole taxing the system and affect cooling efficiency. Check the foam seal for the evaporator underneath there as well.

Compressor ? Generally if your compressor is bad with it engaged the high and low side pressures wont have much difference in psi, similar to what they would be with it not running.

The pressures you stated don't seem seem horrible at 250 high and 40 low and high side may be a bit high.

Just few more thoughts on this and agree with what others have already stated 

 

 

 

[ComancheStarFarms]

Lots of great expertise on this forum. I appreciate the help.

I’ll briefly go over my current status with “what compressor is this” as my prevailing concern. Unfortunately the photos aren’t loading but I have a York compressor - looks almost identical to those on my 1970s Ford P/Us.  I asked “what” as I am not familiar with York - - still in business, remanufactured, Chinese counterfeit, etc?  I think all the good suggestions by you folks have been complied with - at least complied with enough that after doing all those things we buttoned everything up, cranked it up, drove around the yard for a half hour & then went baling (Vermeer 605 Super M).  Performed really cold A/C on a really hot day.  After a couple hours with no issues I noticed a faint burnt rubber odor immediately followed by a fan belt flying by.  So now a little exasperated & weighing the pros-cons of messing with this York compressor, getting another York-type or going with the Sanden conversion?  
 

Last factor - we farm (cattle) with these tractors.  Try to keep them in strong mechanical condition & presentable but at the end of the day they’re tools and need to remain dependable.  If we were wealthy we wouldn’t be on this forum to begin with & that might be my best compliment for RPF - the high quality info you folks bring to our operation.

[FARMALL FIXER]

Fan belt possibly slipping causing the rubber odor ? The fan belts drive the waterpump pulley which drives the compressor and will affect AC. 

Front crankshaft pulley rubber  detiorated and slipping putting the pulley out of alignment throwing the fan belt ?

[HydroTek]

York is the aluminum 2 cylinder compressor
Tecumseh is cast iron -- both are 2 cylinder vertical 

The Sanden / Sankyo is a 5 cylinder axial compressor
these move more refrigerant than the 2 cylinder models 

if I had to put on a new compressor , it would be the Sanden type because of having "better ac"

[acem]

10 minutes ago, HydroTek said:

York is the aluminum 2 cylinder compressor
Tecumseh is cast iron -- both are 2 cylinder vertical 

The Sanden / Sankyo is a 5 cylinder axial compressor
these move more refrigerant than the 2 cylinder models 

if I had to put on a new compressor , it would be the Sanden type because of having "better ac"

Are service valves available for use on the Sanden Compressors?

It is much more convenient to check the oil level with service valves.

[HydroTek]

Not that I am aware of
I don't check oil unless there is an obvious leak 
should be able togo years