IHC_1470

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About IHC_1470

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  • Birthday 02/24/1956

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    Craigmont, Idaho

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  1. You said compression was close to 100. How close is close? Really not sure what those old engines had for compression but 100 sounds like it is starting to get a little low. Have you check anything mechanical on the engine like valve adjustment and that valves are opening and closing at the right time. While it does sound like a fuel issue those are pretty simple carbs with not that many passages to plug. Have you taken a spray can of carb cleaner and squirted threw the passages to make sure they are open? The idle circuit would be the one I would really check closely as it has the smallest passages and would be the easiest to miss something in. Have you tried squirting a little fuel into a cylinder or two and seeing if it would fire on that or not. Might give you an idea if it will fire on something besides starting fluid.
  2. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    As long as I plug mine in there is seldom an issue with either one starting and usually they will start with the shut off in the run position though most of the time I do put it in the start location. The one tractor is missing the plunger so I have to guess with that one if I want to get it spot on. So really not sure why galloway's is being so cranky!!! I would think plugged in for 3 hours or so if the heater is doing it's job the ambient temp really should not make that much difference, at least I don't see it here. I will add though that both of these have engines with less than 600 hours since O/H and fuel systems were rebuilt at the same time so that may make some difference on starting too.
  3. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    Galloway I checked how mine started this morning and really paid attention. So if you give it part throttle and in start position it fired right up no smoke. At low idle starting it surged and lots of black smoke, give it a little throttle cleared right up still in start position. When hot shutting down at low idle it surged and a little black smoke it the throttle and no smoke and surging cleared right up. I usually just use the foot throttle so do not know just how much throttle I give it but it is off idle. I really do not notice much change in RPM at part throttle going from start to run. It is apparent that it is getting more fuel though with the way it acts at low idle. Not sure if that information help or not. How many CCA is the battery that is in the tractor? One other thing I just went through on both of mine, the positive battery cable at the battery connection on both of mine the terminals were ate away on the bottom side of the terminal. You could not see it with the cable on the battery, pulled off and turned over you could see it. I know you have had the cables off the battery from your post but have you really looked at them closely? That might explain your slower cranking with drops in temp. That or even it the battery test good as you indicated if it is only a 500 CCA battery or there about it just may not have enough capacity for the job even though it tested good. Just some random thoughts that came to me as I was feeding.
  4. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    Galloway sent you a pm.
  5. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    When in the start position it is in excess fuel mode. Throttle is supposed to be at low idle. There is supposed to be a detent module that will cause a small increase in tension on the knob or lever depending on which style the tractor has when your at the correct spot if it is adjusted correctly. According to the service manual it roughly doubles the fuel deliver from what is required at full load. Pump static timing is 16 degrees.
  6. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    J-Mech I totally agree with you. No it does not change what ever has started this issue that is for sure. Yet if the tractor is starting well enough and oil consumption is within a range the owner is happy with then this is a possible band-aid that might help him out for a few years. He did say money is a little tight at the moment and I certainly get that issue. So I just threw it out as another possibility he could consider. After all I believe he is looking for different ways to approach the problem. If I personally was approaching the issue as my own machine I would pull the injectors and have them checked. While at it I would also check the compression just to know where it was at. As was suggested and it is not a bad idea pull the side cover and at least clean out the snoot that I bet is there this time of year. If his is anything like mine you never get them up to operating temp long enough feeding cows to keep the moisture out of the engine. Just the nature of the beast in cold weather idling while feeding cows. Then I would pull the valve cover and clean it out and adjust the valves while I was there. Most of those things will cost you no more than some gaskets and your time to do it. At that point it really is a judgement call depending on what you find and what you want to spend and that would be up to Steve to decide would it not? Again even if the compression is low and this got him say even 500 to 1000 more hours before he decided it was time for an O/H would it not have been worth it? At least he could be sitting aside some funds to cover the repairs in the future and using the tractor in the mean time. I am stepping out on a limb here but since he has made no mention of oil pressure issues than I would assume he can get some more life out of the rod bearings. Again with out a physical inspection you would not know for sure. As I mentioned in an earlier post based on the several of this engine family I have been into over the last 40 years or so I would bet if he looks at the front cam bearing it will have a very noticeable wear pattern and measure out of specs. The down side to that if you are to correct it is the engine needs to have those bearings or bushings if you wish to call them that line bored as they are undersized out of the box. At least I have never found any that were fit to size. So that calls for an out of frame O/H. When you think of it IHC did the same thing with the DT series of engines when the truck division started using the 466. The story I was told and at that time I worked in an IH dealership was they wanted to cut the oil consumption down in the truck line so they opened up the ring gap to actually blow the oil down the cylinder walls. But in doing that they also had to move the breather tube up to the valve cover and increase it in size. Stopped the oil from going out the side tube for sure but also it cut some lubrication to the cam area and thus there were more some cam issues going forward. Also was told the reason they went to the same sitting on tappet clearance was they were having too many issues on the assemble line of miss set valves so they made it more fool proof. But that is a DT engine and not what we are talking about here. In closing I know the 246 was available with the breather tube in either location as I have one of each. Why they did that I do not know. Will moving locations stop the oil puking out the breather as is now; possible. Will it fix an internal issue; certainly not. It is only a band-aid at best but if it buys him 2 or 3 more years of operation until more funds would be available to properly repair the real issue than would it be worth it? Only Steve can say for sure. By the way the part number for the valve cover with the breather coming out the top is 3144788R1. For some reason I do not see the tube listed for that arrangement. But assuming you got one out of a salvage yard I would think you could get the tube at the same time if not I doubt it would be that hard to fab one. I can supply pictures if needed.
  7. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    Steve just a thought that could maybe work out for you. If it starts as you say and the oil usage is normal for your satisfaction why not convert it to a breather that comes out of the top of the valve cover instead of the one on the side. My two hydro's are one of each. The only other engine difference is the tractor with the exhaust through the hood has the breather on the side and the underslung exhaust is breather on top of cover. So what you would need is a different valve cover, side cover or just make a plate and block the hole and a longer tube. I can send you some pictures if you would like to see what I am talking about. You might get quite a few more years of service out of the girl before having to spend much money. I can not see where you would cause any issues and the factory did them both ways it seems like.
  8. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    Could we get back on topic here? Everyone one of us has there own personal opinions on how to get a piece of equipment back into the usable stage and for the least amount of money. If a reman engine works for you great go for it. If rebuilding the engine is that way you want to go than go for it. The topic started out as excess blow by with a H84. Several people have offered ideas/suggestions on how to correct the issue. That is the purpose of this site I do believe. Bottom line SGTinWi has to make the decision on how he wants to move forward. Hopefully he will be able to do that based in part on some of the information presented here. So how about we continue to offer him suggestions and advice on his issue at hand. ksfarmdude I am very happy for you that you have used reman engines for years and have had great results. If that has been your experience level then I personally would not change a thing. In my case I have had the opposite experience. My experiences with reman engines have not been near as positive as you. So often I go a different route for repairs. I have found a machine shop that is just as particular with details as I am. We can work together and every experience with them so far has been positive. Again hopefully SGTinWi can also use this information on reman's as he makes a decision.
  9. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    Not sure I have that much confidence in reman engines actually. Years ago when I worked for a school bus contractor put a reman 3208 into a bus. 20k miles later had to pull it back out. Where ever they had gotten the engine from had done a very poor job. Wrong pistons and they had apparently done a lack luster job cleaning out the oil galleys as the bearings were all gone. The engine was out of warranty by that time so the company I worked for had to bit the bullet. The second time around it went to the machine shop to get repaired. Not saying all reman's are bad as they are not, how ever I have had much better luck having the control over what was done. Again it all depends on what you want when your done. And yes often I have spent more money rebuilding over buying reman in the short haul but long term not so sure. I am ASE certified master heavy duty truck and school bus tech and master engine machinist who has turned wrenches for 40 plus years so do have some back ground in the field. KSFARMDUDE don't you usually go into an engine to repair when they are wore out? A cheep price does not always mean a good job out the door does it? And I am not implying that a high price means a good deal either.
  10. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    Have no idea on the hours. It was used when I bought it and the hour meter was not working. All depends on how you want to approach the problem. In this case the tractor was bought at the right price. It was pretty apparent that it had been used with not much maintenance and the person I bought it from did not know much about tractors. Claimed it had just had a complete service and maybe it had but a lot of items were missed. The hyd filter that is to the rear of the tractor had not been changed for a long time as you could tell that from the dirt that was built up on the canister. It is a MFD and the front hubs were very low on oil. The water was going past an o'ring on a sleeve. With a warped deck and the issues with the balance gears and knowing what the front cam bearing would look like before I even got to it I chose to do a major O/H. The fuel system is not cheep to work on anymore, I would have to look back for the bills to know for sure but it seems like pump and the injectors alone were close to $1500.00. Yea it was more than I really would have liked to put into it but I could not see just trying to stop the water leak issue when there were other issues with the engine. Heck I just replace the fuel return line the other day between the injectors and that line alone was $73.00. So yes they are an easy engine to work on but not necessarily a cheep one when it comes to machine shop labor and parts. Edit: SGT you are welcome. I have always found it is easier kind of knowing where you might end up before you start on a project. I would check with a good machine shop and get some ideas on prices before you get to far into it. A dial indicator and some time spend checking valve lift would tell you if the cam has issues before you even pull the head. In my case the balance gear assembly was a surprise when I got it off as to how wore out it was. Just one of the unknowns you run into. Do not think I have ever had one of those engines be it the 239 or 246 apart that you could not visibly see and feel the wear in the front cam bearing. The down side of that is those bearing have to be lined bored to fit the cam as they are undersized out of the box. At least any that I have ever bought. The crack in the counter bores for the sleeves was another surprise and I would hope you would not find that issue. Do not think it is a common problem. Any way the machine shop had to bore those two holes out, make custom repair sleeves to fit the block and then bore to fit the sleeves. It was a good repair but it does add to the bill. So if it is starting well and if the injectors would check out to be within specs that would knock a chunk off the bill right up front. If the deck and head are flat there goes some more away from the bill. It is a very load question as to what the final bill would be until you are in it and see what all needs repaired. I would hope that you could get by for several thousand less and I would say that mine was more a worst case example than the norm.
  11. IHC_1470

    Hydro 84 - Puking out oil breather tube

    I do not think I would try an in frame. It is not that hard to split the tractor. The reason I would not attempt an in frame is there is a very heavy counter balance weight system that you have to time that is below the crankshaft. It is much easier to do if you can drop it into place while watching timing marks rather than trying to balance it on a floor jack and trying to get into place, timed, and not knock the o'rings out of place. Second reason I have never had one apart that the front cam bearing is not worn beyond specs , seems to be the nature of the beast. The bad part about that is you have to line bore the cam bearings once they are installed in the block. You can not do that in frame. It is a wet sleeved engine, single o'ring that goes into the block and not on the sleeve. There are two different o'rings used (size diameter) that is determined by serial number of the engine. Do every thing you can to get the compression as high as you can. Makes for much better starting and little smoke on start up. Make sure your kit has the high compressing pistons in it. Probably can not get the low pistons and more but that I am not sure of. My machinist will not grind the valves without replacing the valve seats first. Make sure the pistons come up to the height spec that is listed etc. If you can get your hands on a new rear seal holder I would go that route as they are cast aluminium as I recall and tend to warp. I would really check the deck and head very closely and make sure they are flat especially since you said it has been hot. Last couple I have done both the deck and head had to be flattened to get back into specs. The block will also crack between the counter bores holes for the sleeves so look for that. That can be repaired if you find that issue. Check the head bolts for pitting and replace if you find any. One of the last ones I did had to replace 5 head bolts for some reason they were stuck and they twisted off in the block. The front cam bearing and sometimes the bushing and pins that the counter balance system spins on are the areas that seem to wear and then you loose oil pressure. Just to give you an idea what to watch for. They are good little engines but the have their quirks. And like any thing else now days they are not cheep to O/H correctly. I think the last one I done I had close to $6000.00 in it. Seems like a lot but that also was rebuilding the fuel system. The machine work was decking the block and head, line boring cam bearings, grinding the crank, new valve seats and guide, cam shaft regrind, replacing pins and bushings in counter balance assembly (those parts had to come from Germany) rework the rods to get piston height into spec, rod bearing holes round again, and make sure rods were straight. I have also found the flex plate on the Hydro's will some times be bad at the cushion springs so that would also be a good reason to spit it so that could be checked. Good luck with it no mater which direction you decide to go. Edit to add the H84 did not come from the factory with a water filter system that I know of. They can be added pretty easily and that was the route I went on the last three I have done for myself. Two H84's and a 5000 swather.
  12. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    Glad to hear that it is doing better for you. Both of mine decided to demand attention this past week. The first one was getting very hard to start if not plugged in. The positive battery cable at the battery would start smoking after a few seconds of hard cranking which is never a good sign. The battery was only 525 cca so not a large battery either. Turns out the cable on the bottom side of the terminal was badly corroded most of the terminal was gone as I could see the wires of the cable. So a new cable and installed a Group 31 and that resolved the issue of poor cranking. The second one the alternator light came on, turns out a diode had gone bad. Alternator had been on the tractor about 6 months. Was a rebuilt I had gotten of EBay. So I put the diode pack out of the old alternator in and back to charging. I just love Lucas electrical components. Then while I was working on it decided better see what the fuel leak was which turned out to be the return line between injectors. So hopefully they are both happy for awhile.
  13. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    I do not see where a fuel pump would hurt anything, on the other hand not sure it would help either. Usually an electric pump is used if the tank is lower than the injection pump, In this case the bottom of the tank is just a bit higher than the injection pump so gravity should do the job. If you think your still getting air in the system maybe install a section of clear tubing so you can actually see what is going on. That will be hard to do as if I recall correctly most of the fuel lines end with banjo fittings. However if your mechanic is creative maybe he can come up with something. What is the tractor doing that would indicated air in the fuel system. Do you get any air at the bleeder screws for the fuel filters if it sits over night?
  14. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    Having any luck with this project?
  15. IHC_1470

    Advice Hydro 84

    Well if your only seeing a battery voltage of 12.2 resting than that will be the first part of the puzzle to clear up. Most likely one of three things. A bad battery, a load on the system, or an alternator that is not charging like it should. Do you have a battery charger? If so charge the battery over night. Get the voltage up to 12.8 as 12.2 is a dead battery. Once the battery is at 12.8 let it sit for 24 to 48 hours and see if it is still holding the 12.8 volts. If so great the battery will hold a charge if not replace the battery. Now I did not say the battery could handle a load for that you need to take the battery to a parts store and have them load test it. Battery needs to be fully charged for a good test so there is a reason to have you charge the battery first. Second thing to test is looking for a load on the system that would discharge the battery. You can do that one of two ways. You can use an amp meter to measure for current draw or you can use a test light. Pull the neg cable off the battery and then connect what ever your using for a tester into series with the battery. In other words connect one lead to the battery post and the other lead to the battery cable that you disconnected. There should not be much if any load on the system. If the test light lights other than a very dim glow or if your getting much over 50 ma or so I would think you have a problem. Depending on what this test tells you will determine what you do next. If your getting a drain on your system you will need to find that before going on. I think the first thing I would disconnect is the electrical plug-in for the alternator and see what happens at your tester. If the electrical draw goes away then you have a bad alternator, if not then you need to start pulling fuses one at a time and see if you can determine which circuit the problem lies with. If you have a cigar lighter or power socket above the key switch that might be something else to look at. Once your done with test two then the next thing I would do is check the alternator for output. That I told you how to do this morning. If all the above checks out then I would go look at the starter. The latest IH part number for the starter is A187837 and the price is just shy of $600.00. For the alternator the newest part number for the delco alternator is 245531C91 and the price is just shy of $500.00. At those prices better order two so you have a spare; NOT!!! Boy those are both crazy high prices. I am sure a good electrical shop can repair both for way less than that. That would certainly be the route I would go before buying new from CaseIH. Either usage; well I never hit the button until after the engine is cranking. As you have discovered it does not take much to cause the engine to kick back against the starter. And the slower it cranks the worst it will be. Would you have one of those point and shoot thermometers? It would be interesting to see how warm the block is getting and once running what the exhaust manifold temp would be at each port just after start up. Might give us some clues to work with. I will try and remember to see what my block temp is in the morning when I go feed. I know it gets warm enough to bring water temp gauge up into the lower part of the white band. Report back and we can decide where to go from there.