656 pto quit

[stronger800]

Now that right there is some good information too. I don’t think I have ever heard anybody say that you could simply dial the pressure up on your existing relief valve before. I did buy one probably six years ago and I remember thinking it was much more expensive than I had thought, even back then I think it was $250.

[stronger800]

On the PTO valve, there is a spring at the top, with a retainer there isn’t really a retainer or spacer “cup” about. 1/2” x 1/2”  and I want to say I have heard guys here post about installing that cup upside down and pto was still fixed, But I am bringing it up so that somebody will clarify for the next guy, I believe the Cup sits on top of the spring, like a bucket, and not like a hat

[snoshoe]

20 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

On the PTO valve, there is a spring at the top, with a retainer there isn’t really a retainer or spacer “cup” about. 1/2” x 1/2”  and I want to say I have heard guys here post about installing that cup upside down and pto was still fixed, But I am bringing it up so that somebody will clarify for the next guy, I believe the Cup sits on top of the spring, like a bucket, and not like a hat

If taken apart like I said. The upper parts all stay in place. In the diagrams he posted the cup you mention can be seen under the upper spring. What I forgot to mention was the spring guide that looks like a hat. It's position is also shown around the lower spring.

[stronger800]

I read along here with just my phone.  I can’t see the diagrams good, but I wasn’t asking for myself.  I’ve done it just from the bottom, but I also watched a neighbor take one apart top and bottom,  and I remember thinking his cup was upside down. But his was in a hurry and just put it back together the way it came out 

 

I’m  mostly trying to get information shared, as to encourage Sandhiller to go ahead and pull that apart.  

[HydroTek]

15 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

I read along here with just my phone.  I can’t see the diagrams good, but I wasn’t asking for myself.  I’ve done it just from the bottom, but I also watched a neighbor take one apart top and bottom,  and I remember thinking his cup was upside down. But his was in a hurry and just put it back together the way it came out 

 

I’m  mostly trying to encourage Sandhiller to go ahead and pull that apart.  

That top 'cup' sits like a hat -- cup pointing down
the shims have the first one with the taper facing down also
the rest of the shims are flat
So, tapered shim in first , then the rest of the shim pack, cup facing down, then spring
really not much reason to remove any of this unless you are careless when installing the spool and knock the cup out of alignment

Seen people flip the top cup over -- PTO still works , but you lose that feathering engagement part
-- that first little spring part about an inch before hitting the big spring 
you lose the big spring 'feel' -- this is part of the over center that holds the lever engaged

The hat on the bottom is -- lip down, or cup facing up whichever way you see the world
the diagram posted earlier is accurate to the assembly direction of parts
I really liked that about IH diagrams in the original books -- the part details were really good most of the time

Need to figure which is easier -- still taking 4 bolts out
either remove the PTO
or remove the drawbar support
on 656 the drawbar support is in the way of the spool -- so it will not drop out of the bottom
only a few of the tractors had a hole in the right place to allow the spool to pass
some have a hole , but it does not align with the spool  -- just a teaser I suppose

PTO does not need to come all the way out to remove the spool
but at that point why not 

Drive the tractor in a ditch or on a bank to run the oil to the front, makes this job only take minutes 

[stronger800]

I’ve never been around a 656 but I assumed that was the case with the drawbar support when it was mentioned earlier 

[sandhiller]

4 hours ago, stronger800 said:

I read along here with just my phone.  I can’t see the diagrams good, but I wasn’t asking for myself.  I’ve done it just from the bottom, but I also watched a neighbor take one apart top and bottom,  and I remember thinking his cup was upside down. But his was in a hurry and just put it back together the way it came out 

 

I’m  mostly trying to get information shared, as to encourage Sandhiller to go ahead and pull that apart.  

Encouragement humbly accepted as I have never claimed to be anything resembling a mechanic although from time to time I have done simple mechanic related things

But, I would rather do it in my home shop with heat and light and out of the wind and snow in that cold SD meadow where the hay is sitting. 

I only have 147 bales left to load and it is actually not working too bad the way I have loader hooked up now, but it will not stay that way once I get it back home since it is still my high private loader. 

Although the 510 looks like it may take over the top spot soon.

The proper tool for the job 

[stronger800]

I don’t know a 656 but on a larger tractor the draw bar support is four bolts, just a few zips with the impact, and ten-20 minutes to fix the pin.   I didn’t know if or how much you were struggling without the pto pump, but it sounds like you’re getting it done 

[snoshoe]

Grab the relief out of your parts tractor. Take it in your shop. Give it the half turn and take it with you when you go back. Only takes a minute to swap.

[sandhiller]

7 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Grab the relief out of your parts tractor. Take it in your shop. Give it the half turn and take it with you when you go back. Only takes a minute to swap.

Dandy idea, need to hit the books again as I don't remember exactly where it is, damn memory is not getting better with age😔

[stronger800]

On a larger Tractor, if you sit in the seat and reach down with your right hand, it’s right there. Threads horizontally into the side of the hydraulic Casting that is the seat support. I assume  a 656 is the same . Large flat head. You can remove it faster than you can find the page in the book. The non painted one here 

[snoshoe]

I remember it at an upper rear angle in the block the valves are bolted to.

[HydroTek]

By your right heel as you sit in the seat
the valve sits in the backer block for the remotes , at an angle 

[sandhiller]

Use 1 1/8 socket

Snap ring and screen and cap with o ring and spring.

Spring is under a slight compression so just keep a finger on things when taking snap ring out

Screw was very easy to turn the half turn in

Back together packaged up and ready to go in other tractor

 

[snoshoe]

Well now I'm a little uneasy. If it was so easy to turn. I have to assume it was not staked. Been turned before? Backed itself out some? Hope you take your gauge along.

[sandhiller]

3 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Well now I'm a little uneasy. If it was so easy to turn. I have to assume it was not staked. Been turned before? Backed itself out some? Hope you take your gauge along.

This was from my parts tractor which I bought not running 

So have no idea but I get what you are saying 

And yes, planned on gauge to see where it was st

I'll take snap ring pliers along and see how easy the one in the good 656 turns

[HydroTek]

You take the inner part out and hold that in the vice

turning with it in the main valve does nothing for the pressure 

so close , but so far away ...

[sandhiller]

1 hour ago, HydroTek said:

You take the inner part out and hold that in the vice

turning with it in the main valve does nothing for the pressure 

so close , but so far away ...

Aha!

Thought it was too easy.

Back to the vice she'll go tomorrow 

So, will holding it upside down and hitting on my hand slide it out or is there another trick I don't know about???

 

If I ever get back home

I am in line in what looks like a twelve hour wait to get a load of #1 fuel from the pipeline 

[stronger800]

I like it when I learn something. 

[HydroTek]

1 hour ago, sandhiller said:

Aha!

Thought it was too easy.

Back to the vice she'll go tomorrow 

So, will holding it upside down and hitting on my hand slide it out or is there another trick I don't know about???

 

If I ever get back home

I am in line in what looks like a twelve hour wait to get a load of #1 fuel from the pipeline 

Yeah, just smack it on your hand

The thing is a pilot operated valve
so the inner cartridge is the pilot part -- and the part that sets the pressure
the tip of the cartridge is the main relief -- you can see the taper and seat in the housing
this is operated by differential pressure of the spring and the oil passing thru the cartridge relief
a little bit of oil passes the cartridge relief , causing the main valve to open 

Pretty handy dandy system used in several other places in the tractor valving, where a small sensitive valve causes a larger valve to operate

[ny bill o]

On 11/9/2025 at 10:00 PM, stronger800 said:

I like it when I learn something. 

I just now checked in on this thread. All I can add to stronger800's comment is Wow! Thanks for the refresher. Much good info!

[sandhiller]

The little dot at top is a stake mark

There is another one 180° opposite.

The slot in top that you want to turn is a half moon so you can't get enough purchase with a screwdriver.

A flat washer works great however 

I used a crescent wrench to turn it but I suppose a screwdriver through the washer would work as well 

 

Now, this was the pressure relief from the parts tractor so I am assuming it would have bypassed at 1500# like the other one. 

I turned it in a half turn like you suggested.

Put it in my using tractor and got 1700# out of it.

Enough to make a difference.

And this really was a simple improvement 

[sandhiller]

@HydroTek and @snoshoe

Thanks for letting me in on the pressure relief adjustment 

Worked great, simple and cost free and this is the result

Thanks to everyone who responded and shared knowledge.

You guys are life savers.

When I get the 656 home and in the shop will add a few pics of getting that pin replaced in the PTO control spool

After I dump this last load when I get home tonight I can take my time yarding all those bales with the 510.

Kinda looking forward to it. 🤠

[mrfred54]

Gotta love it when a plan comes together. Been turning those valves up for years but don't suggest it to someone, cause most times they don't have a gauge to know what their pressure is. I got three of the valves in my tool box set at different pressures

[sandhiller]

Finally forced myself to take the time to address the pto not working issue

When I pulled out the bottom plug, the only thing that dropped out was the bottom cup

OK, the pin isn't broken?

 

Thought I would just push down on the stem and inspect the entire assy

It will not push down and come out

There is a hard stop, won't go past

Doesn't make sense to me as how does it get in there?

 

If i'm following what was told to me above

If the pin was broke

The bottom spool part should drop out

Then push down on the stem (upper part) and it should follow down and out the bottom

Put a new pin in to connect upper and lower and install all up through the bottom

What an I missing?