Brake Housing stuck on IH 364 even though it initially pulls .5" away from the tractor quite easily

[Harvester364]

I'm trying to remove the left side brake housing / cover from the side of the tractor in order to get to the bottom of why I can't depress the brake pedals after 5 years of storage outside. The tractor starts runs and moves fine, but the pedals themselves don't budge. I started with the left one, but the same problem may be waiting for me on the right. The pedals rotate freely when I unhook them from the linkages under the tractor so something must be rusted frozen from the linkages to the brake actuating assembly on up.

The housing has 4 bolts (vs. the ones with 5) and the bolts themselves came out easy enough. The housing slides away from the tractor side about 1/2" all around using just my hands, but won't pull any further off the brake shaft. I can also rotate the housing 10 or so degrees using just my hands.

Using small prybars, some metal wedges and a hammer I can get the housing cover to move about 1" away from the sides of the tractor, but it wont go further. I can see the inner friction disc in the gap as well as the inner actuating disc and the balls. When I remove those wedges, everything flexes and slides back against the side of the tractor / transmission wall.

Before I try forcing it more, can anyone tell me what might be causing it to slide freely initially but then stick? I don't want to break anything or crack the casting of the housing.

Could the friction disc be rusted to the inner wall of the of the tractor / transmission wall and then the rest of the actuating brake assembly is rusted to that friction disc?

Perhaps everything is rusted to the spine of the brake shaft?

In either case, wouldn't I simply be able to lift the brake housing cover off and see the stuck components still on the shaft?

Thanks for any advice.

(I have pics, but can't figure out how to post them)

[snoshoe]

Unfamiliar with this model. From description appears to be mechanically operated dry disc brakes. Would assume outer disc rusted in splines. Would also assume linkage from actuator to pedal will not allow cover off of actuator. Normal removal outer disc and actuator come off with housing.

[HydroTek]

1 hour ago, snoshoe said:

Unfamiliar with this model. From description appears to be mechanically operated dry disc brakes. Would assume outer disc rusted in splines. Would also assume linkage from actuator to pedal will not allow cover off of actuator. Normal removal outer disc and actuator come off with housing.

Basically a 424 with the newer diesel engine

[HydroTek]

Cover should come off , since the slot for the controls is open on one side

then the disk and actuator will slide off the splines 

both actuator plates should float inside the cover
inner actuator should not be against the inner disk when you pull the cover away
maybe stuck to the disk ?

if you can get the pins out of the triangle plates -- the cover should come off -- then you can see what is stuck

[HydroTek]

I suggest leaving the rubber boots off , so air can get thru and dry the moisture out

Rust/water is a weakness on those type of brakes 

Cant remember if there is a place on the bottom of that housing to drill a hole to help with water removal or not
-- the boot may be enough on the bottom to do the job 

[Harvester364]

2 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Cover should come off , since the slot for the controls is open on one side

then the disk and actuator will slide off the splines 

both actuator plates should float inside the cover
inner actuator should not be against the inner disk when you pull the cover away
maybe stuck to the disk ?

if you can get the pins out of the triangle plates -- the cover should come off -- then you can see what is stuck

Yes. The slot for the controls/actuator arms is built into the side of the cover.

Also yes. From my own understanding and in the videos I've watched the actuator plates should float inside the cover, but the cover won't come off.

Not sure why it is stuck only that it is.

You must be right in that the actuator very well may be stuck to inner disc (and the disc is probably stuck to the tractor side/transmission wall), but what is actually holding the cover on? It doesn't even touch the spline. Could it not be coming off because the outer disc which is on the spline is rusted to the inside of the cover? The cover has that machined brake track so I guess that is possible. It's the only thing I can think of that even has the possibility of touching the inside of the cover. Nothing else does that I know of.

Generally speaking, do friction discs rust to their brake tracks or is there something that prevents that from happening? If they do rust and stick like that, do you have any suggestions on how to remove the one that may be stuck to the inside of the cover? 

 

[HydroTek]

Get the pins out of the triangle plates -- I think that is holding the actuator to the cover 

once you get the cover off , you can see the reason the disks are not coming off the spline shaft

since the tractor drives -- the disks are not stuck to the brake surfaces 

[Harvester364]

Ahh.

By triangle plates are you referring to #15 (Brake Operating Levers) in this parts diagram?

https://www.anglo-agriparts.com/image/catalog/blog post/IH brakes part1/05 Later brakes - exploded parts diagram.jpg

 

[HydroTek]

Yes, they are attached to the cover and to the actuator

remove the pins should allow the cover to slide off -- leaving the actuator behind 

[Harvester364]

On 9/1/2026 at 9:10 PM, HydroTek said:

Yes, they are attached to the cover and to the actuator

remove the pins should allow the cover to slide off -- leaving the actuator behind 

That worked! Thanks!

Turns out I couldn't get the cover off without taking that pin out you suggested as the whole actuator disc unit (#3 in diagram above) was blocked from being able to slide off the spline by the outer friction disc (2) which is well and truly rusted on. That also explains why I couldn't move the brake pedals at all even when standing on them. I suppose the brake on the other side is also rusted similarly.

I've tried freeing the friction disk prying it away from the actuating disc (#5) by wedging 6 flat head screwdrivers under it but even though the actuating disc unit spins easily by hand, the friction disc is frozen on. I've hit it with PB plaster where the spline meats the friction disc and tapped it with a hammer while applying the prying of the screwdrivers, but no luck getting it free yet. I only have small plumbing propane torches not a welders torch so I don't think I can generate enough heat to try and free it that way. Other than soaking it ever few days and tapping the screwdrivers occasionally to add force and repeating until something frees up, do you have any other suggestions I can try?

Thanks again for your help. I probably would have broken something without your advice. 

[HydroTek]

Keep the PB on the splines as often as you can
-- or FreeAll if that is available in your area 

I would tap near the splines on the disk to see if the disk will drive onto the shaft a little more
-- the "springiness" of the disk should push back and help break the rust bond

you could use a small flat file and scrape the rust from the splines
-- "square" the end of the file on a grinder , and use the corners of the file as a scraper on the shaft splines
-- files are made of some hard steel and make a good scraper , but keep the edge squared -- that rust will wear the file corners 

[Harvester364]

Thanks for the advice. Just bought a new can of PB this morning before seeing your comment. If I go through that before it breaks free, I'll track down some FreeAll.

Good idea to tap the disc near the splines. I may pull off the fender to allow me to give me more room for more direct taps.

Also good idea to use the file as a scraper to clean up the spines themselves.

This is the first time I've ever worked on an old tractor and your advice has been much appreciated. I'll report back when I get it freed up.

[HydroTek]

May be able to salvage the brake disks , if you dont get carried away with the screw drivers -- LoL

Moisture trapped in the brake housing is the main problem
-- this causes a rust coating on the brake surface that will not make any stopping friction
-- you can use the squared file to scrape the rust scale down to clean metal

then use 80 grip sand paper on the disks to get a fresh surface

the balls and pockets need to be cleaned up
-- use a wire brush on a drill for the pockets
-- springs prolly need replaced 

Light coat of anti seize on the ball pockets when you go back together
-- also on the 3 places on the outside of the actuator where it contacts the housing 

I leave the boots off and drill the housing at the bottom to let air dry the housing out 
-- the original asbestos linings (reddish/brown color) would hold moisture and help cause the rust
-- later "yellow" linings were better at the rust problem 

[Harvester364]

Got it off. A week of applying PB Blaster on the spindle and taking a file to splines themselves to file off the rust allowed it to walk off eventually. It sure doesn't really take much grit / rust on the spline to get in the way and lock it one there. I'll give them a really good clean up before I slide something back on. The inner friction disc came off easy. Thanks!

I still have a super corroded bolt to take apart the actuating unit (the other one was fine) before I can open up the actuating discs themselves to check out how badly pitted the inside and the balls.

From the outside, the springs look to be in good shape with no corrosion. You mentioned they probably need replacing, I'm assuming that's because eventually they fail so I might as well do it now when I'm in there?

Is the asbestos on the inside casting of the brake housing itself or does it line something else? All this time, I've been assuming its in the friction discs. I just want to make sure I know what I'm working with when I go to wire brush, clean everything up.

Once again. Thank you. This is the first old tractor I've worked on so I would have been scratching my head forever without that advice you gave me earlier!

 

 

 

[HydroTek]

pop the springs off , then you can get the actuator to separate
I never remove the linkage bolts 

stuff is in the brake disk -- you should be fine with a wire wheel on the housings

will likely need to "square" that file tip and scrape the rust scale from the surfaces tho  

[Harvester364]

Forgot to report how the rest of the job on the left frozen brake went!... I wanted to thank you as it all went smoothly after your suggestions. Too smoothly actually!...

 

After cleaning everything up with wire brush, a palm sander with coarse grit and squaring up the edges on the spindle the new brake discs I bought slide on and off nice and easy so nothing restricts their movement. I used these bonded discs from yesterdays tractor.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Farmall-364_Bonded-Lined-Brake-Disc_1975464C2.html

After your suggestion, I gave the new balls the thinnest layer of antisieze wiped on them possible to avoid build up of gunk and then and I sandpapered the grooves they slide into until everything shined. 

After reassembling everything, I'm happy to report all the linkages move freely and for the first time the pedal can go through what feels like the full motion. I can feel the brake pads engage the housing when I press down on the pedal. Unfortunately, they don't slow the tractor down or stop it in any real fashion. I've tried adjusting the linkages so the bite point occurs at different points, but there's no actual engagement, just sliding. 

I was super careful not to get any antiseaze on any braking surface and I even cleaned the casings up with rubbing alcohol before reassembling in case there was any PB Blaster overspray. If I hadn't done that, I'd assume contamination was causing my sliding not stopping as that's the feeling I get through the pedal.

Hmmm. I'm assuming the thickness of the new pads might be too thick to allow the brakes to go through their full travel? By which I means pushing my foot down doesn't move the actuator enough to rotate the assembly fully which in turn doesn't let the balls rotate enough up their grooves to push the pads through their full travel, but short of putting the old thinner pads back in to test that theory I'm puzzled on my next steps.

I'll probably try putting the old pads back in the spring when it warms up a bit and if doing so stops the tractor, then I guess my next step is to find a different (hopefully thinner?) brand of brake pad.

I've read of needing to get the outer housing milled down a few hundreds to accommodate newer pad thicknesses compared to the newer /ticker replacment pads, but not sure if that has anything to do with my situation?

I'm getting there!

 

[HydroTek]

Glad to hear of your progress

The pads need to sit on clean metal -- if there is rust coating the surface , the pads will not grip -- or grip poorly

if the pads were too thick , then the brakes would be on all the time -- pretty sure this is not the case

the expanding part will move out about 1/4" -- so should be plenty of movement
you should get the feel of the brakes at about half way on the pedals -- feel the pedal get tight against the pads

the strongest part of the actuator is at the beginning of it's movement
if the metal parts are too worn and the actuator needs to move a lot
then the force is weaker against the pads

leaving the rubber boot out will allow you to see into the housing when the brakes are applied

this is when the housing can be milled down some to overcome wear 
the caution is milling too much and binding the brakes when they are not applied

be sure the linkages are able to move fully and pull on the actuator rod enough to make it expand 

[snoshoe]

One other thing I learned a long time ago. Take a torch and burn some of the resin out of the surface of those new linings. Caution to hot and the bond will let loose. Otherwise greatly increases stopping power. Will need to be repeated as surface wears away.

[jimb2]

The the outer circumference of the new disks will be riding on the outer ridge created by the old disks as they wore into the brake housing.
Take a grinder a grind a little off the outer circumference of the new brake disks so that they fit in the area that the old brake disk had worn into the brake housing and on the side of the differential. Also check the inside circumference for fitting into the old wear area.

[Matt Kirsch]

For these brakes to work you want as little travel as possible. Thinner discs is not the way to go.

Milling down the housing is for when the stack of discs and actuator are not thick enough. The new discs made overseas for tractors like the Super H's/M's on up were presumably based off of measurements taken from a set of worn out pads that some chunderhead sent to China thinking they'd make a fortune off aftermarket parts. Sent 'em a set of worn out discs and said "make these" so they did, and now we have what we have...

After that little rant, the point is that if your new discs are noticeably thicker they should work better and you should not need to mill the brake housing. So either you've got something together wrong or your surfaces are glazed up. Did you hit the metal surfaces with any sort of mechanical abrasive to break the glaze before you put things back together?

Did they work before? I apologize if you said so anywhere but I did not pick up on it.

[HydroTek]

I suspect that the disk is not sitting flat to the metal surfaces -- tapering the edge of the disk is the fix 

Also the linkage on that tractor is a little odd -- need to be sure that the linkage is not the whole of the problem -- restricting pedal movement 

OP indicated that it was a rusty mess , like most of those are 

[Harvester364]

HydroTek, Snowshoe, Jimb2 & Matt - Thanks for your replies! Wow. What great info. I'm learning a ton thank you.

In no particular order....

Thanks for explaining why milling is needed in some cases and why it probably doesn't pertain to my case. (fingers crossed)

PRIOR GLAZING: Matt, you asked how well the surfaces were cleaned and how much glaze was removed... I used a course wire wheel on a drill and then a couple sheets of 60grit sandpaper on an orbital sander to clean up the braking surface on the tractor and the inside of the housing. While I didn't notice any glazing and they weren't rusty to begin with (pretty much shiny metal really), I think I got them to quite a clean bare metal surface before I hit them with alcohol just to double ensure I didn't have any overspray or lube on them. When I go back in there on them in the Spring I'll double check it. Oh yeah, y also asked if the brakes worked before I put the new pads in... no they didn't. The linkages were all rusted frozen so no amount of force on the pedal would move anything in the system. I think I've corrected all that. If the old brake pads stopped the tractor before the linkages froze, hmmm I don't know as they probably froze up sometime after my grandad died and stopped using it 20 years ago. It has pretty much sat in the lean-to ever since. My grandad had pretty flat land and it wouldn't surprise me if he used the transmission/engine brake (not sure what its called? but its the pedal you need to press to change between gears) on the left hand floor well to stop rather than replacing pads over the years?...

TAPERING DISK EDGE: I didn't see any scoring or indentation of the shape of the disk on those brake surfaces for the new pad to catch on, but I wasn't trying to feel with my fingernail or anything. I could totally buy the idea that the disk isn't sitting flat on the metal surface as 50 years of braking must have worn away at least a little metal? If the pad is only touching at the very tip of the edge, it would certainly give that sliding sensation I'm feeling. I'll taper the edges of the disk to see what happens.

LINKAGES: After I busted up all those rusted and fused bolts / pins / bushings, I think I got everything moving quite freely in the system, but I'll double check.

HEATING UP THE DISK: If the above doesn't work, I'll add that to the link of things to try. 

 

Can't wait to get back to try your great suggestions. Thank you!