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Oil and Fuel Filters - 400 series


Sask466

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Hey all,

I have seen this topic sort of floating around in a few threads, but not addressed from a cost perspective.

I am in the process of a restoration on a s1900 chassis and went to get new filters throughout. The engine had the standard old black CIH filters on it:

Oil - 2 x A184773

Fuel - A184773 Primary

- A184774 Secondary

I called the local CNH dealer and one oil filter is $16 (up in Canada so prices may be higher). This seemed high, so I called a local truck parts supplier. They had the following Donaldson filters

Oil - 2x P555616

Fuel - P555627 (Primary I think)

- P552603 (Seconday I think)

The price of the Donaldson oil filter is $8 vs $16!!! This leads me to think either a) CNH is fleecing me, or B) Donaldson is an inferior / cheaper product. I did some research on the Donaldson brand, and I can't seem to find any negatives. In fact they seem like a premium brand comparable to Fleetguard (assuming that's who still supply CNH).

Does anyone out there have any experience with Donaldson? Is anybody else seeing this huge price gap?

Also, here is a picture of the motor - I am painting it with a high gloss 2-component industrial paint - it looks a little loud! I couldn't stick with the Navistar blue... My new S2E is also in the picture!

post-117338-0-48445200-1456961382_thumb.

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As far as I know, most of Case' filters are made by Donaldson anymore....Used to be made by Fleetgard but they switched a couple years back.

I still use Fleetgards on mine.

Travis

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Dont over think this,the highway department i work for has run Napa-Wix for 30 years with no problems D-8 cats to S-models with Cummins,pickups,cars for nurses,etc,etc.I started using them 5 years ago at home and farm .We run 20 plow runs in winter ,2 loaders,35 trucks on road in summer.There ,pick me apart my 2 cents.

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I agree about worrying too much over specific brands of filters and oils. Heck, there is an entire website (huge website) dedicated to the topic. That's not my intent. I am mostly just shocked at how much more I have to pay for a consumable item from CNH! That's John Deere price gouging!

Maybe we need to start a filter cross reference topic?

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CaseIH engine oil filter for 400 series A184775 lists for $12.90. Open house price 10% off $11.61

I can buy American Made Wix at Napa. Last time I paid $5.12 for Napa Oil Filter that replaces CaseIH #

6.49 savings each, @ 2 filters per oil change thats $12.98. Got 4 engines, twice per year,thats jus short of $104 a year savings. And thats jus engine oil filters, add up air, and fuel filter savings its several hundred dollars a year. Some of the air filters I think there is $40 dollars difference

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Use Fleet Guard filters if your not going to use ORM filters , they are very good filters and are owned by Cummins . They made Case IH filters , AC Delco , John Deere , many of the big name company's for many years and the only reason they have moved to Donaldson is for cost .

Danny

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Danny, I dont use Fleet Guard cause they closed the plant in LakeMills Ia and moved it to Mexico. Lot of people in my area lost their jobs.

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the donaldson filters with the case ih labeling come from mexico too. they also seem to be on the cheaper side construction-wise. with a lot of parts these days it gets harder to believe you're getting what you pay for going with case "oem"

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I've been using Wix filters in everything I own for over 20 years with not one issue. As for cost, Wix dealers just had their spring special. I got $2100 worth of filters for $520. That is $1580 saving x 20 years = $31600. Wow! Kinda shocked me as I wrote this.

With this markup, I wish I owned a filter making company!!!!

Jerry

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WIX filters are mostly made in USA. I noticed that some are now made offshore. The filters for the International tractors are still made in Gastonia, NC, just a few miles from my house. I still buy CNH filters for some applications for convenience, but have used WIX for years and I think they are as good as you can get. Whatever you do, leave Fram on the shelf. Don't take my word for it, cut one of them open and you will not say anything else about how that Fram is made.

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CaseIH engine oil filter for 400 series A184775 lists for $12.90.

So I'm going to say you are being charged CNH list price at your dealer. Fram I have heard bad things about and also Purolator. Have you priced out the Fleetgaurd filters from your local dealer? I know the some of the dealers in Michigan that is all they carry for the simple reason of price.

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What does everybody think about Baldwin filters I think they are decent filter what are your thoughts. I was at redhead equipment the case IH dealership in Saskatoon Saskatchewan and they said with the dollar all parts are going up 11% no matter what I looked at my bill and it was

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What does everybody think about Baldwin filters I think they are decent filter what are your thoughts. I was at redhead equipment the case IH dealership in Saskatoon Saskatchewan and they said with the dollar all parts are going up 11% no matter what I looked at my bill and it was

Nobody (even Fram) is going to sell you a filter that will ruin your engine if you install it.......

I don't use Fram, Baldwin, or Pro Tech.

Travis

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Interesting pricing, got these out of older open house booklets from local store

2011-A184775 $8.80 - Sale $7.04 20% off

2012-A184775 $10.18 -Sale $8.65 15% off

2013-A184775 $12.17 -Sale $10.34 15% off

2014 -47395511 $12.17 -Sale10.95 10% New part# listed to replace it in the flyer

2016-47395511 $12.72 - Sale 11.45 10% used Messicks list -10%

2015 and 2016 don't list Part #'s and prices jus advertises 10% off in open house flyer

Got the current list price of A184775 from Messicks $12.90 but our Dealer uses part# 47395511

now and list is $12.72

This is why I don't buy from CaseIH any more. Big rip-off. Margin of profit lets say 30 to 40%.

Lets use 35% for figuring: profit on 12.72 =4.45, profit on 8.80=3.08

They make more now, but give us less of a discount at open house

I need to add price of a bu of corn beside each year as of March 1st

Rant over

TBT throw back prices Part # of oil filter before it was A184775

1989 - 675616C91 list price $6.43 Dealer cost was $3.79 41% less than list

1994 - 675616C91 list price $6.56

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Case IH may be at a disadvantage selling the fleetgaurd anymore. Fleetgaurd used to be part of cummins and this adds another middleman to be paid. I prefer fleetgaurd, baldwin and wix are decent also. On lots of our odd stuff we get napa Gold. The plain napa is not very repuatable ( according to mechanic who worked at napa part time )

Jmo

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What does everybody think about Baldwin filters I think they are decent filter what are your thoughts. I was at redhead equipment the case IH dealership in Saskatoon Saskatchewan and they said with the dollar all parts are going up 11% no matter what I looked at my bill and it was

Nobody (even Fram) is going to sell you a filter that will ruin your engine if you install it.......

I don't use Fram, Baldwin, or Pro Tech.

Travis

I have seen two Toyota trucks in the service bay with Fram filters that puked the element paper up and blocked the oil pump. Ruined the engines. All i use now are Fleetguard, WIX, or Mobil 1 (made under contract i'm sure). The NAPA Gold filter is a premium filter made by WIX.

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As far as fram we got a letter on a ninety one dodge cummins that warranty would not be good if used I use baldwin now due to cost I got a place that sells them to me at a low enough price that even when . Napa runs a fifty percent off sale they are only a twenty five cents higher than my every day cost of the balwin

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Just to set things straight here...CNH has NOT dumped Fleetguard and gone to Donaldson completely. Using the A184775 (47395511) IH 400 series oil filter as the example....they WERE made in the USA by Fleetguard and then Fleetguard moved production to Mexico. They still make them in Mexico yet.

GENERALLY....the CIH equipment with FPT engines are using Donaldson filters and the prior built (CDC engine and IH engine) equipment has Fleetguard sourced filters. Going forward, I see the use of more Donaldson filters as FPT engine equipment becomes more common. I do not see CNH dumping Fleetguard anytime in the future.

Personally I would RUN away from Baldwin or Fram filters. Cut one open and it will be VERY obvious why they cost less!!

The Fleetguard and Donaldson filters that are being upgraded are done so to allow LONGER service intervals. If you had 2 machines using the same brand of oil (ANY brand for this test) in each and put a CNH filter in 1 and a Baldwin or Fram in the other and run them 300-400 hours, sample the drain oil and cut open the dirty filters, you would see the results of using a "higher priced" filter versus the bargain brand.

Another analogy about comparing filters is related to T.P. (Toilet Paper) purchases..........Cheaper is NOT better!!! :lol:

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Haha, that T.P. argument has no come-back! That's solid logic!

I did cut a Fram apart a few years back. They are aweful - the rubber in the drain back was really stiff/hard and the bypass valve was a cheap little piece of plastic - and those cardboard end caps seemed frighteningly weak. SAE specs and standards are minimums, not maximums.

It's good to know that there are a few other good non-OEM options out there though.

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