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Random thoughts on the DV-800 and other V8's


Sask466

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The V-8's just weren't great for tractor applications where you need high torque and lugging power and the inline engines did much better. I remember my dad said he used to pull his silage chopper with an 1850 Cockshutt or even our Oliver 88 with M&W pistons (bit of a stretch and slow going but it did it if needed).

I remember my dad telling me one time with the Cockshutt in the shop they rented or got on loan a V-8 diesel Massey Ferguson to finish up chopping. My dad said he plugged the chopper and it stalled the Massey. He figured with stalling a tractor that far over the choppers horsepower rating he must have really broke something. He went back got it unplugged and looked it over and didn't even break a shear pin. Just fired it up and went back to work. When it plugged it dropped the rpm enough it just didn't recover and didn't have the bottom end; he said if you lugged it in the thick spots it would just fall on its face compared to the inline engines. After that he was never impressed with the lugging power of the V-8's. He said it did the job okay because it was a powerful enough tractor but thought if it was pushed with a piece of equipment closer to its hp rating it would only be good if you keep it wound up.

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There are some really big inline diesel engines. Alot of them were used in big ships.

I think they built V8 diesels for two reasons. First the V8 gas engine was all the rage in the 60s and 70s so it was good marketing. Second some of these companies (including IH) had V8 gasoline manufacturing equipment. Big gas engines were on the way out and this was a way to reuse this equipment.

Thx-Ace

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One other v8 we had was the 555 cummins in a 555 versatile, It was a screemer as well it ran at 2675rpm . This was were we had to run her for pto speed when running the 1482 combine. This Moter ran ok for us in the 8 years we had it but it was gutless . Every winter the crank case would fill with antifreeze and we would have to change it and flush it out in the spring. We thought doing the heads and sleeves would fix it but it did this tell we traded it for the 4586. In all I would not class it as a good engine but we got by with it. There were a few 555 in our aria not many ended well most had a hole in the oil pan at the end of there life. I just think 2600-2800 rpm was too much for them.

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And the air filters were the other issue with the 4586. If used in real dusty conditions you had to clean them twice a day or else the air restriction would cause the engine to pump oil and drain the crankcase down before you knew what was happening. Then Ka bang!! One of my neighbors has a 4586 and he has been in to the motor to fix a lifter and regrind the camshaft. The tractor has about 8000 hours and originally came from Alberta. He always cleans the air filter every day doing spring tillage.

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First summer I hauled ready-mix was with a '74 Diamond-Reo with 208 HP 555 V-8 Cummins. Paired with a 5-speed Allison you needed all 2800 rpm when it shifted because it took forever to accelerate back to 2800 again. The engines themselves were reliable enough. The company ran them 10+ years. The trucks would have been better with the 5+4 trans the '66 White's had in them, less rpm drop on shifts, and the 25% more HP would have been nice.

Dad put over 400,000 miles on a 903 Cummins in a White RoadBoss hauling fuel & fertilizer for FS. No problems, just normal maintenance, truck went back to Kingston Mines as a spare tractor.

I put about 300,000 miles on two 903's in RoadBoss II's. Split about 150K each. Second one swallowed some water during a rain storm and bent two conn rods. Mr. Goodwrench wasn't real good at keeping up with routine maintenance like oil changes, grease jobs, even after asking to have the fan belt tightened twice I had to do that myself. Not sure what he tightened but it wasn't the fan belt! Both those engines were governed to 2500 rpm but rated HP, 320 HP, was at 2600. Once again, more gears than the 6-speed Spice would have been nice. Even just a 9 or 10 speed RoadRanger!

Then there's the 300,000+ miles on my PSD. And the V-6 & V-8 Detroit's and odd CAT 3208's I've driven. I put over 100,000 miles on an S-2200 IH tractor with shiny-290 Cummins with 10-speed RoadRanger, it was tired, but much wanted my RoadBoss & 903 back! The Binder was a longer wheelbase tractor, rode a bit nicer, had power steering but I much preferred the White with a bit more HP.

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Back in the day one of our neighbors bought a new 1466 and a 1468. The I-6 engine would eat the V-8 alive. They turboed the 1468, then it would keep up but the bottom end could not handle it. The issues is the fact that the V-8s have two cylinders sharing main bearings, where the I-6 has a main for each cylinder. Huge difference

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part of the reason IH was looking for a big cube V8 back then was length laws were more restrictive and trailers were getting longer. After length laws relaxed cabovers went away and you had all the room you wanted for an engine . for a while at work we had a CO4000 day cab with a dv573 that motor pretty much fit under the cab while a 220 cummins would have been out the back.Lots of 6v71, 6v92s, and 8v71s were used in that era also.

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part of the reason IH was looking for a big cube V8 back then was length laws were more restrictive and trailers were getting longer. After length laws relaxed cabovers went away and you had all the room you wanted for an engine . for a while at work we had a CO4000 day cab with a dv573 that motor pretty much fit under the cab while a 220 cummins would have been out the back.Lots of 6v71, 6v92s, and 8v71s were used in that era also.

Don't forget the 8V-92's. The one the company I drove for had was rated 425-435 HP. It got worse fuel milage than my RoadBoss with the 903!

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part of the reason IH was looking for a big cube V8 back then was length laws were more restrictive and trailers were getting longer. After length laws relaxed cabovers went away and you had all the room you wanted for an engine . for a while at work we had a CO4000 day cab with a dv573 that motor pretty much fit under the cab

Did you actually drive a truck with a 573 in it? if so you are a rarity, that had to be mid 1960's?. Tell me more, were they good, bad,?

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I had several IH 6x4's in the 70's.....most had the Cummins 555 but one had the DV550.......none of which would do wheel stands of course, but the triple nickel as the US operators called them, went just fine...the three and four axle trailers coming onto the scene back then certainly showed up the lack of power overall....might have been fine crossing the Nullabor Plain....(Australia..the country of origin for these trucks...)...but New Zealand's slow , hill infested roads really were to much.

the DV550 was used in tipper application only......in a forestry logging situation....never had any real issues with it whilst I owned it......they either had 13 speed R/R boxes...or Allison auto's..

..now, with the advent of the big Mack V8.....that made the old IHC's look rather timid.....some went well...others didn't...lot depends on the driver.....one private operator called his 500HP V8 Mack...."The Pus Bucket "...not a very complimentary term......but it didn't treat him to well on log cartage duties.....his driver was a total wanker.....

Mike

when the hp on the E9 went up the reliability went down

if , u had single trailer, very light foot and under 500hp they seem to have stood up

add more horsies, nother trailer or two , they have the unhappy habit of putting there owners on there feet

neighbour still has one, been a rather unhappy and expensive journey block was beyond reclaiming, finding a good secondhand block is rather hard, as mack is no longer producing new blocks

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Oh, I didn't realize those E9's were marginal motors. They were a pretty rare bird up in Canada, and most were the older 375 or 425 hp versions in R600's. In the plains here our over-the-road trucks wouldn't get worked like your road trains. We have lots of 500+hp trucks, but they are probably only demanding more like 300hp running down the road. I have heard you are (or were) fans of the Cats in Australia - who is on top now?

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The 4586 I had a made it to 3200 hrs before any engine problems. Ya, nothing to brag about I know. I guess considering many failed before that it was good. The hard surfacing flaked away on one lifter, so total disassembly. The bearings looked very good yet, and it didn't use but around a quart of oil per 100 hour oil changes. But the counterbores on 6 cylinders were ate up bad. It was just a matter of time anyway. Seemed it must of had decent maintenance before I got it, with the exception of coolant filters. There was 2 others running around the area with over 4000 hrs that never had engine work, and they were run VERY hard.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

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I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today.

You are spot on, I like the 7.3 Powerstroke in my Superduty but a DT-360 would have put Dodge and Cummins out of business. CaseIH could have used the 360 in their Maxxums and small combines even.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

You might be on to something. I believe most, if not all the "V engines" were made at the Indianapolis Works.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

You might be on to something. I believe most, if not all the "V engines" were made at the Indianapolis Works.

The Indy engineers probably got fired from Cummins so they went to IH.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

You might be on to something. I believe most, if not all the "V engines" were made at the Indianapolis Works.

The 7.3L PSD was. The 6.0 & 6.4L was made at a former Cummins plant IH bought off Cummins in Huntsville, Alabama. Think Cummins made the Onan air cooled engines there.

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If the 361,407,429, 817, 300 & 400 series engines were made at Melrose Park and all excellent engines. Were the 263,282,301 gas change-over wanna be diesels made at Indianapolis? If so, that "engineering theory" would be a truism.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

You might be on to something. I believe most, if not all the "V engines" were made at the Indianapolis Works.

The 7.3L PSD was. The 6.0 & 6.4L was made at a former Cummins plant IH bought off Cummins in Huntsville, Alabama. Think Cummins made the Onan air cooled engines there.

Talked with a guy the other day that drives plow truck for the county and they run all newer IH trucks and complained how doggy they are and that they can't keep a head gasket in them. He was envious of the next county because they run Sterlings with Cummins and will do twice the work the IH trucks can do. I said it then and I've said it before that IH forgot how to build engines years ago now.

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We had a 4568 for a few years. Not a bad tractor and much much more power than the JD 7520 it replaced. It was good at starting in the cold too. Never had any engine problems till my brother got it hot.

The company I worked for up in Seattle had a Huffer to pressurize airplanes,,, 737 to 747s. It was a Detroit 12v92 connected to a HUGE roots type blower. Man, we would fire that thing up,,, it was scary loud. The Detroit screamed but the blower screamed more!

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I don't believe anyone's mentioned the AC 440. IIRC, it was an orange Steiger with a triple nickel in it.

I wonder how Steiger came to build a tractor for Allis.

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When it comes to IH diesels I swear there must have been the good engineering group and the bad engineering group. The good group did the 361,407 and the Melrose engines and the bad group did the V8 junk from the very first to the V8's to the most recent. I still say if the would have given the DT360 to Ford the engine would be held in the same reverence that the 5.9 cummins is today. And then they make the 6.0 pos and put less head bolts in. IH could have looked at their own history with the 282 engine and known that was a problem. Oh yes, the IDI 6.9 and 7.3. IH went away from glow plugs in the 60's with new engine development . What were they thinking? Yes they must have kept the bad engineering group.

You might be on to something. I believe most, if not all the "V engines" were made at the Indianapolis Works.

The 7.3L PSD was. The 6.0 & 6.4L was made at a former Cummins plant IH bought off Cummins in Huntsville, Alabama. Think Cummins made the Onan air cooled engines there.

Talked with a guy the other day that drives plow truck for the county and they run all newer IH trucks and complained how doggy they are and that they can't keep a head gasket in them. He was envious of the next county because they run Sterlings with Cummins and will do twice the work the IH trucks can do. I said it then and I've said it before that IH forgot how to build engines years ago now.

I imagine guys like Jerry Lagod have all left IH, moved on to greener pastures, started their own companies like Hypermax. Guy my son graduated college with got on at Melrose Pk in the dyno room about 8-10 years ago putting new engines thru their paces. He got laid-off about 2 years ago. I've seen it dozens of times, the "Good Guys" don't take being told NO very long before they move on. One poor manager in an organization can kill a company. At the same time a good manager can instill brilliance in his people and lead them to the top of their business.

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I don't believe anyone's mentioned the AC 440. IIRC, it was an orange Steiger with a triple nickel in it.

I wonder how Steiger came to build a tractor for Allis.

I might be mistaken, but IRC AC owned a small share of Steiger Tractor at one time. The 440 was identical to a Steiger Wildcat. Around 1977 AC had Steiger build the frame and assembled the tractor using AC's own engines, cab & axles.

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