Manure Pits

[ChrisNY]

Are other areas having the same problem we are here with opposition to lagoons and how are you guys handling it? This piece I am posting is another group that is opposing my neighbors satellite lagoon he wants to build. He went through the same thing last summer on a pit he tried to build, had it all excavated and a couple neighbors pitched a fit and went to media etc. He scrapped the plans to appease the people, now he is getting it again. Most of us have future plans for satellite lagoons and there are numerous ones all ready build and been operating for years. Technically with our Right to Farm laws they can not stop them but the problem is if you do, if you get on drop of poop on road they will call the cops and just be a headache. Just curious how other areas are fighting back?

Neighbors for Responsible Farming

January 28 at 9:15pm ·

WARNING - A 2 to 7 Million Gallon Manure Pit Has Been Confirmed to be Placed in Our Backyard
A Call to Action

It needs to be stated that we are strong supporters of farming in the North Country, and specifically in the Township of Adams. The issues we bring forth are not of large corporate farms and their farming, but of insensitive placement of manure pits.

Major concerns:

- The site for this manure pit is directly on top of the Tug Hill Aquifer, designated by the EPA as a sole source aquifer - the drinking water for our community. (Ref. Tug Hill Commission 2007 Study)

- Property values will be radically reduced, up to 88%, accordingly, the tax base also. (Ref. The Appraisal Journal, Winter 2015)

- A major health risk for the South Jefferson School District with a student population of 1640, plus teachers and staff of the high school, middle school, and Wilson building. These buildings are less than 1 ½ miles from this manure pit. (Ref. NALBOH: National Association of Local Boards of Health)

- Highly toxic chemical release of hydrogen sulfide, methane ammonia, carbon dioxide, and 180 more chemicals that can create serious health issues. (Ref. ATSDR: Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry)

- Insect vectors will be greatly multiplied spreading bacterial and viral infections (Ref. CDC: Centers for Disease Control & Prevention)

- A NYS Department of Environmental Conservation designated wetlands are located directly in the center of the property. (Ref. NYS DEC website)

We strongly encourage everyone who agrees with this petition to attend the next Adams Town Board meeting to be held at the Adams Town Hall on Thursday, February 4th, 2016 at 7:00 PM.

Originally, the Right to Farm laws were designed to prevent nuisance complaints from residential areas moving close to existing family farms. Few would disagree with the basic tenants of these early laws; they provided functional parameters for the whole community. Times have changed. The family farm has disappeared at an alarming rate, only to be replaced by large corporate farms.

These mega-farms literally by their size, have enormous requirements. No more is the 50 - 100 cow dairy the norm; now 1000 - 3000 count herds are commonplace. With these large herds, manure storage and dispersal also becomes a large benefit... and problem.

The smaller family farms distributed the manure in dry form, via the spreader, over their croplands - an efficient method for the size and quantity. Today, the large corporate farms have determined that liquefying the manure and field broadcasting is the most efficient means to distribute - and also creates the problem of storage.

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) restricts farming operations from spreading liquid manure in winter when the soils are saturated (either frozen or fluid), which brings us to the core of the issue - manure storage.

For many years, manure pits (lagoons) were located close to the original farmstead. In recent times, the acquisition of many small family farms by the large corporate concerns have given birth to the construction of satellite manure pits. Regardless of the fact that there are more ecologically sound methods of manure management, these pits seem to be for the corporate farms, the path of least resistance.

Returning to the subject of the Right to Farm laws, and the blanket permits issued by New York State to these corporate farms for manure storage, the satellite manure pits can be constructed virtually anywhere the corporate farms own land. Regardless of the fact that residential communities long predated the construction of these new satellite manure pits, the Right to Farm laws are being reverse-engineered to allow the pits close to residential areas, notwithstanding, the bulk of the land in the Adams Township is zoned agricultural with no reasonable setback for the pits to residential areas, businesses, and schools.

We need to address specifically the recently confirmed site of a satellite manure pit to be located on the previous Graves farm, whose land is bordered by Fuller Road, Minkler Road, and Wright Street in the Township of Adams. The farm was recently purchased by Hillcrest Farms of Woodville, New York.

These satellite manure pits typically are designed to hold between two and seven million gallons of manure. The effect translated to the community will be nothing short of devastating if this pit is allowed to be built.

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) states that the impact area from a manure pit is judged to be a 3 mile radius, which could increase, depending on the strength of the winds.

The construction and implementation of this manure pit constitutes a clear and present danger to our community. We must act individually and in unison with our neighbors to do what we must to safeguard our lifetime investments, and ensure safe, clean drinking water not only for us, but also for our children and grandchildren. What we do today will determine the legacy not only for our families, but for the entire community.

Please consider this as an immediate problem, as permits for construction are already being drawn.

We would greatly appreciate your support. Contact information for local committee members and a petition of protest is attached.

There is no doubt that political pressure will be the change agent to stop this manure pit. Please do not hesitate to contact our local and regional politicians to garner their support.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Neighbors for Responsible Farming

[TroyDairy]

Yep. Huge lawsuits have been won b/c they maay leak. Several studies and test wells show zero leakage. I live how they are for ag but against a farmer doing what he needs to do. The State is thinking of making us line them with rubber. MI has shiwn liners cause more problems than unlined. WI i think requires concrete for all new ones. We are building a concrete one now. 2m. Guy in OR has a 20m for 200hd, silly. It shows how out of touch the group is. Lagoons/tanks are needed to PROTECT ground water. So manure can be applied properly when needed and the weather is good. Much better than scrape and haul. Chris you have to rallye the dairy industry there. If the environmental folks stop this they will have ammo for all. Wrote letters to your reps, send op eds to papers, share why they are needed on FB. No joke. This is a serious fight for the dairy industry all across the US. It's underlining is animal rights groups trying to stop dairy farming. PETA etc fund rhia stuff backdoor like. For ideas go to WhatcomFamilyFarmers.org and on FB. We've posted some good vids and data on the science of lagoons. Its not just a hole in the field. Fwd to any Farm Bureau people and dairy leaders. This group is gonna tar n fwather thia dairyman. Thw dairy community needs to get infront of this before they make you all look evil. Thats what they are doing here, we all are greedy polluting a holes. We all juat pump into creeks and beat employees. We are trying to stop the machine thats painting us bad so we can get traction in the truth.

[new guy]

Many years ago the township i grew up in came out with the ruling of NO NEW homes could be built unless it was on an existing building site. This was the result of a couple cidiots who built a new house next to an existing dairy farm and immediately began complaining of the smell of manure being spread daily in the fields around them. Stopped the city slickers from moving out but also stopped those of us raised in the area from building a place of our own in the area.....

[ChrisNY]

Yep. Huge lawsuits have been won b/c they maay leak. Several studies and test wells show zero leakage. I live how they are for ag but against a farmer doing what he needs to do. The State is thinking of making us line them with rubber. MI has shiwn liners cause more problems than unlined. WI i think requires concrete for all new ones. We are building a concrete one now. 2m. Guy in OR has a 20m for 200hd, silly. It shows how out of touch the group is. Lagoons/tanks are needed to PROTECT ground water. So manure can be applied properly when needed and the weather is good. Much better than scrape and haul. Chris you have to rallye the dairy industry there. If the environmental folks stop this they will have ammo for all. Wrote letters to your reps, send op eds to papers, share why they are needed on FB. No joke. This is a serious fight for the dairy industry all across the US. It's underlining is animal rights groups trying to stop dairy farming. PETA etc fund rhia stuff backdoor like. For ideas go to WhatcomFamilyFarmers.org and on FB. We've posted some good vids and data on the science of lagoons. Its not just a hole in the field. Fwd to any Farm Bureau people and dairy leaders. This group is gonna tar n fwather thia dairyman. Thw dairy community needs to get infront of this before they make you all look evil. Thats what they are doing here, we all are greedy polluting a holes. We all juat pump into creeks and beat employees. We are trying to stop the machine thats painting us bad so we can get traction in the truth.

Thanks Troy, will check that out. These lagoons are designed and engineered by our government soil and water conservation district as all lagoons built here are and inspected every day during construction by engineers they will be lined with rubber liners above that the engineers called for. The last lagoon he scrapped he even offered to double the liner and pay for all kinds of ground water testing to appease the neighbors but still were not happy. These are not "corporate" farms they claim, this man started with absolutely nothing from a poor family and is now milking about 1500 next door and is partners with a local vet on another dairy milking 2000. He is hard worker and has a son that is in mid 20's he grooming to take over the farm at some point. You can throw all the facts at these idiots and they don't care, they believe what they want. Another farm just went through the same thing this past summer and it is now becoming every lagoon built is having opposition. Must be these people don't like to eat.

[brewcrew]

I'm not sure I understand the term "satellite lagoon ". They are building these away from the cows? How does that work?

[hillskinefarms]

Chris- your last sentence is the root of the problem. These people DO like to eat. And they can. Check your local grocery store lately? We live in a land of food abundance and have for quite some time. Unlike many other nations we have not ever really faced true hunger and we won't for the foreseeable future. If these groups succeed in shutting down animal ag we will still all eat, as we can import food from all over the world. Do I think that is a smart move? NO (and I am not just saying that because I farm). I believe we as a nation are setting ourselves up for disaster as we rely more and more on other countries for our food. I must be in the minority however because we continue to move more and more in that direction. Very troubling to me.

Sorry I got off track from your original post.

[ChrisNY]

I'm not sure I understand the term "satellite lagoon ". They are building these away from the cows? How does that work?

Satellite lagoons are lagoons built away from the farm in area where there are good chunk of land. Manure can be trucked to these lagoons in the winter and held until spring then spread or draglined when ground is not frozen and conditions are right. Most of us around here farm ground 20-30 miles away from main farm so trucking can be done in "off season" and makes application much faster, easier and better for environment.

[ChrisNY]

Chris- your last sentence is the root of the problem. These people DO like to eat. And they can. Check your local grocery store lately? We live in a land of food abundance and have for quite some time. Unlike many other nations we have not ever really faced true hunger and we won't for the foreseeable future. If these groups succeed in shutting down animal ag we will still all eat, as we can import food from all over the world. Do I think that is a smart move? NO (and I am not just saying that because I farm). I believe we as a nation are setting ourselves up for disaster as we rely more and more on other countries for our food. I must be in the minority however because we continue to move more and more in that direction. Very troubling to me.

Sorry I got off track from your original post.

Jeff, guys up your way should be watching what is happening down here very closely as it will be spread north very quickly. It is just the beginning

[oldtanker]

Been seeing some anti lagoon stuff here. Not so much on leakage but claiming a biological hazard. The idiots here want the manure put down and immediately plowed in or injected daily. They are not stopping to think about 3-4 months of the year where the ground is a little on the hard side or the fact that most dairy operations here don't have enough land as it is so leaving a field only used to dispose on manure isn't feasible.

Rick

[bitty]

Our lagoons had to be double lined, first clay then hdpe lined. Has a leak detection system incorporated . Its a shame what this country has become. It's no wonder how its getting so bad

[Ihfan4life]

Chris,

A local farmer here had the same issue. Built a satellite lagoon on property he owns, maybe two miles from his main farm, and the neighbor raised all kinds of crap about it! How it damaged her business, lowered her property values, and amongst other things, ruined her view! She tried getting the town select board to stop it, but the towns don't have any zoning regulations on manure ponds. It really pulled our community together to support this farmer, this time. But the concern is, what about the next one, or the one after that?! I think you could find it on FB, support the poo ponds, if it's still there?

This isn't just one states issue, it's across the country! Too many people with too much time on their hands and too much money in their pocket. The distancing of the general public away from their food source isn't good for farmers. The idea that large farmers are corporate farms and not " real farms" also fuels this fire!

Don't forget, the overburden of regulations all ready coming from the government, and the increase planned from the government, ie; tile drains being classified as point source pollution, is leading us down a very frightening path...my 2 cents

Sid

[AKwelder]

Hmm. I see that as a good parent I need to take my kids to farms, they need to know and respect where their food comes from. And we all need to grab a neighbor kid and expose them to it also.

It is kind of sad that I need to take the same approach to family farms that I take towards the 2nd amendment.

[Ihfan4life]

Oh, and as a side note, I just love how the government is putting all these regulations on farmers to "protect" the environment, and than they turn around and grant all the municipalities permits to discharge millions of gallons of untreated sewage. Enough said, Sid

[TroyDairy]

Hmm. I see that as a good parent I need to take my kids to farms, they need to know and respect where their food comes from. And we all need to grab a neighbor kid and expose them to it also.

It is kind of sad that I need to take the same approach to family farms that I take towards the 2nd amendment.

Ah yeah. Head to Manatash [sp] valley and stop at a dairy and walk around. Or when your in MN do it. Very impr. My citiot kin who are 1 gen away from dairy post the most obscene things about farms sometimes.

[bitty]

Hmm. I see that as a good parent I need to take my kids to farms, they need to know and respect where their food comes from. And we all need to grab a neighbor kid and expose them to it also.

It is kind of sad that I need to take the same approach to family farms that I take towards the 2nd amendment.

Ah yeah. Head to Manatash [sp] valley and stop at a dairy and walk around. Or when your in MN do it. Very impr. My citiot kin who are 1 gen away from dairy post the most obscene things about farms sometimes.

I have cousins that are anti this and that

[red211]

No hijack meant, but think long and hard about who you are supporting. There history is very easy to follow and one stands against big govt, EPA for just one. Another has supported eminent domain and will continue to do so, along with the EPA and other agency's. Time to start reining this back in is now.

Very interesting thread, sorry for the detour.

[Cattech]

I wonder what the enviro-nazis would have a farm do with animal waste? What do they think is done with human waste at sewage treatment plants? If it were possible, maybe a hearing should be held to find their solution to the issue. They want something to complain about...Maybe he should get into raising hogs, put up a new hog barn as close as possible to the offended neighbors houses. Then move the pigs around every night at about 3 AM.

And to completely hi-jack the thread, the subject reminded me of a funny incident at a neighboring farm..... A hired hand (high school kid same age as me at the time).... They had a manure pit out behind the parlor, it had a big concrete pier out to the middle. They also had a couple ATVs to get around the farm yard. Middle of winter, this kid thought that pier looked like one heck of a fun jump for an ATV. He figured the manure was frozen.....Nope..... He was lucky someone seen the stunt and ran out with a bunch of bale twine to pull him out. They managed to get the ATV out with a Lull telehandler. Had to lower the guy down, hanging from a rope, hooked a chain to a rack and lift the thing out.

[ChrisNY]

Chris,

A local farmer here had the same issue. Built a satellite lagoon on property he owns, maybe two miles from his main farm, and the neighbor raised all kinds of crap about it! How it damaged her business, lowered her property values, and amongst other things, ruined her view! She tried getting the town select board to stop it, but the towns don't have any zoning regulations on manure ponds. It really pulled our community together to support this farmer, this time. But the concern is, what about the next one, or the one after that?! I think you could find it on FB, support the poo ponds, if it's still there?

This isn't just one states issue, it's across the country! Too many people with too much time on their hands and too much money in their pocket. The distancing of the general public away from their food source isn't good for farmers. The idea that large farmers are corporate farms and not " real farms" also fuels this fire!

Don't forget, the overburden of regulations all ready coming from the government, and the increase planned from the government, ie; tile drains being classified as point source pollution, is leading us down a very frightening path...my 2 cents

Sid

I looked for that link on FB and didn't see it. The fact that he backed down on the first one now has given everybody fuel to the fire so they think if they make noise he will back down again. NRCS and SWCD and everybody else told him to fight it to the end because they didn't have a case but he got sick of all the media attention and said if he built it there would never be any peace because they would do everything they could to cause problems so gave in. Now they think they won. That one was all started because the land it was going to be built on was land that used to be owned by a farmer who went bankrupt 25 years ago and thinks he still owns it, even though neighbor has owned it for 7 or 8 years and was trying to cause him problems went to city downstream from river that was 2 miles from proposed lagoon and told them their drinking water will be contaminated if pit is built and cause panic in misinformed uneducated citiots who tried to stop it and became media circus.

[red211]

I wonder what the enviro-nazis would have a farm do with animal waste? What do they think is done with human waste at sewage treatment plants? If it were possible, maybe a hearing should be held to find their solution to the issue. They want something to complain about...Maybe he should get into raising hogs, put up a new hog barn as close as possible to the offended neighbors houses. Then move the pigs around every night at about 3 AM.

And to completely hi-jack the thread, the subject reminded me of a funny incident at a neighboring farm..... A hired hand (high school kid same age as me at the time).... They had a manure pit out behind the parlor, it had a big concrete pier out to the middle. They also had a couple ATVs to get around the farm yard. Middle of winter, this kid thought that pier looked like one heck of a fun jump for an ATV. He figured the manure was frozen.....Nope..... He was lucky someone seen the stunt and ran out with a bunch of bale twine to pull him out. They managed to get the ATV out with a Lull telehandler. Had to lower the guy down, hanging from a rope, hooked a chain to a rack and lift the thing out.

I like that idea, instead of building a barn, just pasture some close to the complainers. If they want a view of farm, give it to them. Fence off an area that is up wind from them and make sure you have enough in there to make that fine hog aroma!! Bet they would welcome a lagoon out of sight and downwind.

Side note, friend went through a nasty divorce several years ago, she was crazy and only wanted to make it hard on Him since She had more money than Him. He had bought 12 acres of woods behind His house, it had two acres of flat ground only accessible from road across middle of his field. She wanted the property just to cause trouble, He told her if She got it He was putting some hogs right in front of the only place a house could be built. He ended up with it anyway.

[mader656]

I wonder what the enviro-nazis would have a farm do with animal waste? What do they think is done with human waste at sewage treatment plants? If it were possible, maybe a hearing should be held to find their solution to the issue. They want something to complain about...Maybe he should get into raising hogs, put up a new hog barn as close as possible to the offended neighbors houses. Then move the pigs around every night at about 3 AM.

And to completely hi-jack the thread, the subject reminded me of a funny incident at a neighboring farm..... A hired hand (high school kid same age as me at the time).... They had a manure pit out behind the parlor, it had a big concrete pier out to the middle. They also had a couple ATVs to get around the farm yard. Middle of winter, this kid thought that pier looked like one heck of a fun jump for an ATV. He figured the manure was frozen.....Nope..... He was lucky someone seen the stunt and ran out with a bunch of bale twine to pull him out. They managed to get the ATV out with a Lull telehandler. Had to lower the guy down, hanging from a rope, hooked a chain to a rack and lift the thing out.

So there was this dairy farmer with red tractors and the manure pump tractor had brake issues and went swimming.

[Pete1468]

I don't know about you guys but i'll take hog confinents over open lot hogs with straw any day. We had one neighbor who raised hogs old style up until 10 years ago, it smelled way worse, but he wasn't real up on cleaning it out either.

[1586 Jeff]

So there was this dairy farmer with red tractors and the manure pump tractor had brake issues and went swimming.

Say it wasn't so?! Hopefully it had some flotation (tires, on the front) so that it did not drown......

Troy is gonna be......

In all seriousness though, this is a subject that we all need to pay attention to, the lagoons that is. Not to diminish the need for parking brakes though.

[Ihfan4life]

Chris, sorry, the FB page is Keep the poo pits, just looked it up! I don't know how much good content is in it, but it's there if you want to look. As far as your farmer backing down, yup, big mistake, these people are like wolves if they think they made a difference they Wil just keep coming back after him!

Sid

[ChrisNY]

Found it, thanks Sid

[oldtech]

The integrity of the lagoon depends very heavily on local soil type.

I had one and it was fine but as I posted here on a topic about wells just yesterday if you go up to Kewaunee County just north of here it has been a nightmare with 1/3 of all tested wells in the county testing positive for e.coli.

They have a Karst subsoil which means rock (limestone there) that comes right up to the surface and has cracks and fissures all the way down.

They have to line their pits. I didnt as we have all clay which seals up nicely.

It isnt just the lagoons either. Its the spreading and unless conditions are perfect you get leaching down into that rock.

And then there is the volume issue.

They now have 16 CAFOs in that one county where the soil conditions are absolutely the worst for them!

There are simply way to many cows for the land up there.

Its nightmare situations like that that make it more difficult for people to agree with pits in areas where it is less of an issue.

There are lots more issues with the really big operations like road damage and surface fun off.

Town boards are really screaming that state aids have not kept up with the rage of damage by ever bigger and more semis running up and down little town roads to get to fields.

Our wonderful legislature passed a bill that simply mandated that towns allow the bigger loads and eat the damage.

This is not a good trend and it isnt going to get better soon.

So, if you are worried that people are scared of a new pit going it you need to understand why and begin to deal with the causes.