fbh31118 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I've taken the first of many steps in my effort to put my(originally my grandparents bought just a few years old) H back together after nearly 40 years of sitting out back of my grandparents barn. After ordering and reading the service manual I've noticed that the engine portion is relatively thin and seems to make several assumptions about its audience. So it became clear to me that there must be a wealth of knowledge that I'm missing that will be important to the build. For example; the lower end of the motor is safety wired together in such a way as to ensure that no bolt can come loose or that the connecting rods are numbered and facing the cam (I think that may be missing from the manual). So lets face it, the devil is in the details and I just finished reading a thread on the perils on not correctly applying the rear main seal 'felt'. I've done some small engine rebuilds and I'm not afraid of screwing up and going back, been there done that over and over and over again but if possible I'd like to keep my learning curve down to things I can handle before I put it back in frame. So, my plain is to tear down the replacement motor as the original block has been cracked and beyond repair at this point. I would like to have the motor hot tanked and magna fluxed in addition to having the crank, cam and rods checked. Both motors were distillate machines and I will be looking for a donor head as to convert to gas along with high compression pistons, replacement sleeves, bearings yada yada yada and you get the picture. So my question is this: What advice, tips or sources of information do I need to get this thing right? Am I on the right track? I'm hoping I'll be able to start a thread in the project area soon! Looking forward to posting progress pics and hearing your feed back! Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtech Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Im not certain you have to put a different head on it. I had an M that had been a distilate engine and we overhauled it and ran it for years on regular gas. Maybe its different with modern gas today but are you going to work it on a farm or preserve it as an antique? It makes a difference on how you use it I think. How are all the valves? Whats the condition of the head in general? The distillate engines also burned gas so I wouldnt worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Pope Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Pretty sure IH used different pistons to change CR, the heads were the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR.EVIL Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Pretty sure IH used different pistons to change CR, the heads were the same. There was a gasoline head, and a distillate head, and a kerosene head. All had different size combustion chambers and different length intake & exhaust valves. The piston top domes were made larger, displaced more volume to increase compression for operating at higher altitudes, like 5000 and 8000 feet. Then there were thin wall sleeves with matching increased bore pistons for more cubic inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterT Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Noticed the referance to a C153 engine. The Farmall H used the C152 engine. The 153 is a different engine. I think it was used in maybe the 504? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbh31118 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Im not certain you have to put a different head on it. I had an M that had been a distilate engine and we overhauled it and ran it for years on regular gas. Maybe its different with modern gas today but are you going to work it on a farm or preserve it as an antique? It makes a difference on how you use it I think. How are all the valves? Whats the condition of the head in general? The distillate engines also burned gas so I wouldnt worry. Not sure, I know that the gas motors have a different device to keep the valves turning and I know they are different compression motors but I don't know if the head changes physically. I do have a brand new nos distillate head complete with line tag. I plan on using the tractor but I'm unsure how much at this point and yes it is to preserve it but it's no fun if you can't work it. Just found a really nice no. 8 plow in 2-16 to go behind it so I'm looking forward to having it in good shape. I changed my mind on making it distillate and plan on making it full gas for the sake of my girls, who will no doubt want to drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbh31118 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Pretty sure IH used different pistons to change CR, the heads were the same. There was a gasoline head, and a distillate head, and a kerosene head. All had different size combustion chambers and different length intake & exhaust valves. The piston top domes were made larger, displaced more volume to increase compression for operating at higher altitudes, like 5000 and 8000 feet. Then there were thin wall sleeves with matching increased bore pistons for more cubic inches. I just reread the service manual and saw that. Thank you for your confirmation. Noticed the referance to a C153 engine. The Farmall H used the C152 engine. The 153 is a different engine. I think it was used in maybe the 504? My mistake, you are correct. I will try and fix that tag. Check that, tag fixed, thank you. I'm still concerned though. There seems to be a lot of information to gather to make this project take off. I just rather hoped to not take off blindly. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Tractor Jack Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 The safety wiring that you see in the old engine is really not needed. I have rebuilt several IH engines and never put the wiring back. Putting the wire on correctly is a learned skill. If you don't put it on correctly, it doesn't do any good at all. It sounds like you have never rebuilt an engine. Torque the mains and rod bearing bolts/nuts to the factory spec and you will be fine. The numbering and orientation of the rods is a common proceedure for all engines. You might want to see if you can find a mentor to walk you through the process. Doing a rebuild is not difficult if you have a little help. Buy the way, what manual did you get. Some of the retail manuals are vague at best. Get an orginal reprint of the IH service manuals they are better. As for the head, it all depends on what you want to do with the tractor. You could rebuild the distilate head, if it is still good, and the tractor would run just fine. If you want more power then a gas head might be a better choice. If the tractor is just a restoration project I would stick with the stock head. If you want to get into pulling then the added compression would help considerably. It all boils down to just how much you want to spend. Good luck and remember there is a great deal of statisfaction in re-building an engine and restoring a tractor. You can say, "I did that!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbh31118 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 The safety wiring that you see in the old engine is really not needed. I have rebuilt several IH engines and never put the wiring back. Putting the wire on correctly is a learned skill. If you don't put it on correctly, it doesn't do any good at all. It sounds like you have never rebuilt an engine. Torque the mains and rod bearing bolts/nuts to the factory spec and you will be fine. The numbering and orientation of the rods is a common proceedure for all engines. You might want to see if you can find a mentor to walk you through the process. Doing a rebuild is not difficult if you have a little help. Buy the way, what manual did you get. Some of the retail manuals are vague at best. Get an orginal reprint of the IH service manuals they are better. As for the head, it all depends on what you want to do with the tractor. You could rebuild the distilate head, if it is still good, and the tractor would run just fine. If you want more power then a gas head might be a better choice. If the tractor is just a restoration project I would stick with the stock head. If you want to get into pulling then the added compression would help considerably. It all boils down to just how much you want to spend. Good luck and remember there is a great deal of statisfaction in re-building an engine and restoring a tractor. You can say, "I did that!". IH service manual GSS-5032 IH Serviceman's Guide for Farmall H (Thank You Binder Books!) IH Parts Catalog TC-27E McCormick (and McCormick-Deering) I know that it would be just easier to use some thing commercial like loctite but this wasn't my point per say, what I'm driving at here is the details of motor assembly and rebuild itself. Things like measuring clearance, lapping valves and tearing down the machine is not the problem and I'm fortunate enough to have a few people at my disposal that are very well versed in the process, I'm just gathering nuggets of information, at this point, to give me some perspective. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete23 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Pretty sure IH used different pistons to change CR, the heads were the same. No, all older model IH tractors used different heads. That was true up until the six cylinder engine used in like a 560 and then they used different pistons for LP etc. I would try to find a gasoline head as it will perform better. You can go with high altitude pistons and get the compression ratio up but it is not the same as a gasoline head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR.EVIL Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sounds like general books like "How to BLUEPRINT an Engine" or "How to Build a High Performance Engine" are the type of books you need to read to get the general info you're looking for. A quick Google search to see what Amazon may have, or the local Barnes & Noble, even the local public library would be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Tractor Jack Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 One more thing, lf you are going to change the head and go with domed pistons would need to change the distributor advance. The distilate engines had like a 23 degree advance. The gas has a 10 degree if I am not mistaken. I ran into that when I put a gas head and oversized pistons in one of my H's. Part of the firecrater M & W kit was a new distributor plate that had the 10 degree advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevingweq Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Safety wiring is a good sound practice , I would not forego this procedure , IH did not drill holes and use castellated nuts at higher cost for no reason . Good Luck with your rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWV Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 4 cylinder service manual ISS-1039-1 will give you most specs. You probably have a magneto but if a distributor they used a 40 degree maximum advance at the crank originally and when installing fire crater piston and sleeve sets with a 1/16 bigger bore than original and more compression than the standard elevation pistons IH wanted that limited to 22 degrees at full RPM and advance at crank. They also wanted a magneto if used changed to less advance and sold parts to do it at one time. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall666 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Safety wiring is a good sound practice , I would not forego this procedure , IH did not drill holes and use castellated nuts at higher cost for no reason . Good Luck with your rebuild THE RODS HAD TABS YOU BENT OVER THE HOLD THE NUTS TIGHT.THE MAINS HAD WIRING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Here's a pic I took to show someone the oil pump and pickup. You can see the wired bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.