sugarmaker

TD6 Dozer/Loader

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Folks,

 A neighbor stopped over yesterday. During the visit he was asking about the TD6. One thing led to another and pretty soon I had it running and moved it closer to the garage . I was even a little surprised that it fired up on rev number two. Will try to pull the housings for the thermostat review in the near future. Will try to get some pictures of that process too. Yea KoO would have had it done by the time I write this and get the pictures posted!:)

Nice to see these pictures with no snow!

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Steering clutches were free and brakes worked as they shoul for a old tractor:

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Starter and switch repairs  last winter must have done the trick. There was no hesitation starting on gas:

5bJoEi1.jpg

Here is a spot where I might mount that nice light I just got as a rear facing back up light. Left rear platform.

UmqOhFv.jpg

 

Regards,

 Chris

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Kingdom Cats repairs aug 24-26 2017 015.jpg

This is KoOs picture of thermostat repairs it looks like he takes the entire assembly off the radiator and the engine. As I was looking at it last night that may be the only  way to do it? The hoses which I assume will need replaced are very short and would be almost impossible to slip into place while the casting are in place. Hoping I can find hoses at NAPA? Of course new gaskets will need to be made and new stainless clamps. Bolts have not been out in years so hoping I don't break off one. Soaked in Blaster overnight.:)

Regards,

 Chris

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Glad you got to spend some time with the TD6 and it started and ran well for you ....  any excuse is a good excuse !  

That bigger part in the KoO picture does have to come off, to access the thermostat... the thermostat sits just under the bottom of it... only the 1 gasket to deal with there where it bolts to the engine..  

I didn’t take the other smaller part off, there was enough flex in the hose to get it off and back on...it may be easier to take it off, but not necessary unless you want to replace the gasket where it bolts to the radiator .. 

Good luck ! 

Grant 

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Grant, Folks,

 Those small hoses lengths had me a little worried. All bolts came out with just a little extra effort. I decide to take the whole assembly off and now that I have it seemed pretty easy. Spent a couple hours cleaning up the parts , making gaskets, priming and painting.

Getting at the project, Lots of room to get to bolt heads.

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As expected there was no sign of a thermostat.  So why did folks take these out? Too keep engine temp low?

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Here are the parts ready to go back on tomorrow: I ran them through the Electrolysis tank for about 2 hours each part.

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Got the hoses from NAPA. 2-1/8 dia x 3 inches long. and 1-1/2  dia x 2-3/4 long

U75KQFq.jpg

Thanks for checking in on me !

Regards,

 Chris

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Folks,

Well the installation of the thermostat went well. Filled the rad with anitfreeze mix, and fired it up.

iySgu8f.jpg

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Note that this is not a pressurized system. Not sure if its supposed to be?? Cap just sets on the casting.

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After switching to Diesel to warmed up into the RUN range and headed toward HOT. Got in to the hot zone and a gallon or more of antifreeze belched out. Humm, maybe this is why there was no thermostat?? 

Neighbor stopped by last night. I mentioned I was putting in a thermostat, He asked why, He suggested I leave it alone if it wasnt overheating now!

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So I ran it for a few minutes than shut it down. Filled the rad back up up and went to start it. The starter never tried to start?? Looks like I have a bad starter or switch so I will have to look into that. 

Thanks for checking in on me.

Regards,

 Chris

 

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Silly question, but did you put the thermostat in facing in the right direction?  Also, did you do a flush on the engine block and radiator?  All that scale can ruin the heat transfer inside the block.

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that first burp would not be uncommon with an air pocket and no attached cap

now if you are getting bubbles in a day or so once hot then it is the more common small cracks in head

it is Also quite common for the cap ring to have been knocked off  these were soldered (poorly) to the tank top

saw the NOS replacement once ,dealer would not sell .....but trade for first born

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Pull the thermostat and go to oreilys and get a radiator cap that you tighten a bolt on the top to seal it.

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7 hours ago, Rawleigh99 said:

Silly question, but did you put the thermostat in facing in the right direction?  Also, did you do a flush on the engine block and radiator?  All that scale can ruin the heat transfer inside the block.

Rawleigh99,

No such thing as a silly question! The thermostat that I used was only able to go in one way. It was too long and hit the casting in the other direction. I tried it. I did not really do a engine flush. I think I did run water through it when I had the pan off. Cant remember. 

NLfL8Et.jpg

 

Regards,

 Chris

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35 minutes ago, mmi said:

that first burp would not be uncommon with an air pocket and no attached cap

now if you are getting bubbles in a day or so once hot then it is the more common small cracks in head

it is Also quite common for the cap ring to have been knocked off  these were soldered (poorly) to the tank top

saw the NOS replacement once ,dealer would not sell .....but trade for first born

Thanks,

 So does this need to be a pressure tight system? If so what pressure rated cap?

I may need to do what Tanker recommends but why do I need to remove the thermostat? I guess it would not surprize me if the cooling system was not scaled up as Rawleigh suggested?

The trials and tribulations of owning old stuff, what fun we have!:)

FYI Without the thermostat there was bubbling action in the coolant when first started. With the thermostat in place there was no bubbling.

Well I have to work on the starter again to get it running. Then I can do some additional testing of the coolant system.

FYI once it let out that belch of coolant the temp dropped back into the RUN range on the gage. So maybe it was just air locked?

Any pictures of the soldered ring on top of the rad upper radiator casting ??

Regards,

 Chris

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Forgot I did have more pictures:

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dA9JlrS.jpg

NnMUgJc.jpg

Thanks guys for the help!

Regards,

Chris

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I have two TD-6's and both the thermostats in them look different than the new one you have. Both are like the ones in the picture from KoO. Both of mine are 160F thermostats. Someplace I read they have a bypass thermostat but for the life of me I cant find that information so I'm not sure if its the housing they are referring to or the stat itself but one person had overheating issues after replacing the stat with one from an auto parts store, then his cure was getting the original style stat. Watching the coolant in mine I can see it circulate some until it warms up then it circulates faster looking through the cap.

Probably not the issue but just an idea. Good luck!!!!

Ken

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Chris, I had noticed that your thermostat was different from KoO's and was going to comment on that even before I read Ken S's post.

i am not fully familiar with the gas start Diesel engines cooling systems, but it may be that your thermostat is incorrect.

if it were my machine I would not run without a thermostat, I would search for the correct one. Before when you were running without one you could see coolant moving from the water pump. Now with it you are not until it burped. The burp would have been immediately after the thermostat opened. There could have been air trapped under it. Hopefully you can get it started and it warms up correctly without burping or putting the gauge in the hot range!

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Ken and Chip man,

Thanks you both for the comments! I think I have some more work to do on this stat thing. If its the wrong one then maybe I do have it in up side down too? If you look at the picture of the stat in the housing the short end is going down towards the engine block, The spring end is up towards the rad. Thinking about the Allis WD stat I just put in, the short end of that faces the radiator, so maybe this is wrong stat and in backwards too? Sounds about like I do stuff. About the third time I may get it right!:)

I think I got the stat from O Rilieys?  I think it was cheaper???

Not sure what the temp range of the stat is? 

 I did look at the Stant stat on line. and when I zoomed in it shows the long end goes "up" towards the radiator so in general I have it installed the right direction.

Going to pull the starter again soon and get that working somehow. I have a feeling the air pocket is what caused me a problem with the new stat?

Regards,

 Chris

 

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I think that the problem is that the spring end is supposed to go towards the engine.  That is the part that has to heat up to open the thermostat.

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Rawleigh,

I thought so to but I pulled up the stant thermostat and zoomed in and it shows the long end (spring) of the stat with a arrow "towards ^ radiator". I am still learning.

Regards,

 Chris

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Chris, I bought a right size thermostat at a local auto parts store and installed it in the TD9 ... it overheated pretty much right away..

I then ordered the correct TD9 thermostat from Steiners, and it works well .. I don’t think the other one was letting the coolant through to the radiator fast enough  or in enough volume ..

I’m pretty sure I installed it with the spring end towards the engine.. 

As you see in the photo of your thermostat housing, some coolant can and will bypass the thermostat even when it is closed... so if you are looking in the radiator, there will some movement right at start up, but much more movement when the thermostat opens up..

I did a real good flush as well, using a coolant flush additive ...  I was concerned about scale build up, as I had found the lower hose on the circulating heater almost completely blocked by scale.. 

I believe the cooling systems on the TD’s were designed to be pressurized, with a sealing radiator cap... 

I’ve attached a picture of mine, obviously not the same as yours, as you have no bolt holes for the cast piece, but I think yours maybe should have a similar insert to receive the twist on rad cap ?? 

 

 

3CA851AC-FB46-40E5-8585-98981E5E466E.jpeg

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North,

 Thanks for the suggestions and picture. To get a neck on my old radiator may be a challenge? Will have to do some checking on that. 

I did look at that Murray part on line and it said it was 195 F. 

First step is to find why I cant start it! :)

Thanks for checking on me!

Regards,

Chris

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Folks,

I did talk with a mechanic friend and he said that if its a 190 F stat its too hot. He wasn't sure how it should be installed. 

This morning I took the starter off and took it to Martins Starter service in Blooming Valley PA. They tried it and the switch several times and it worked fine, Then all of a sudden it would do nothing. They would rotate the gear and it would work fine until it landed on that same spot again. They will get me pricing on a new armature and installation.

Think of putting wing nuts on all the starter bolts.:)

Regards,

 Chris

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Chris,

 

Not sure if this will help but here's a pic of the service manual. It may look a little different since the manual covers the "6" and "9".

Hope it helps some.

 

Ken

Stat.jpg

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Ken,

 That helps a lot. I can see that I have the stat in upside down and have the wrong one too. And the wrong temp. Three strikes I'm out! Appreciate you posting this. I still havent found my owners manual. Service manual would be good to have.

Regards,

 Chris 

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Folks,

 Sgtill checking on things.

 Called Oreiley auto on the Stant thermostat. They have to call the factory for price and availibility. I mentioned the Murry that I had bough the 4039, they confirmed it was a 195 degree unit and not a direct replacement for the #13436 from Stant. They do have a Murray #3436 in 160 degree that is supposed to be a replacement for the Stant. I have no clue how I ended up with the wrong one. Any way more work to do on that.

Martin Starter repaie service called and gave me the price for a rewound  arrmeture using mine as a core. Yep the old one is confirmed to be bad.  Glad I was setting down it was $around $280 with there labor the rewind being $265. Any one have a good TD6 starter they wan to sell? Delco #1108940. The armature # is 1918153.

Regards,

 Chris

 

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Chris found this on quick search              Starter For International td 6 td9| Ref: 140-9811

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14 hours ago, Kevingweq said:

Chris found this on quick search              Starter For International td 6 td9| Ref: 140-9811

Kevin,

 Thanks! Number is slightly different, but I will try to call them next week. Shows that it fits that tractor!

They have armatures too.

Regards,

 Chris

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