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69loadstar

69 Loadstar 1600 Brake help!

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Hi guys. I'm new to the group and I would like to say there is so much info in here it's unreal. A lot of people in here have a truly profound knowledge base when it comes to these trucks which is awesome for someone such as myself who is new to this. I recently purchased a 1969 loadstar 1600. It's got the v345 4 speed tranny with a 2 speed rear end and a 16' dump bed. It originally had a 304 in it but when the original owner replaced it he mistakenly bought a 345 so he had to eat the core on that one which is why it's a 4 speed. Everything works on the truck with the exception of the 2 speed. The 345 that is in it now also has less than 50 miles on it. Shortly after he replaced it he bought a 92 navistar so I got a heck of a deal on it. I know the non working 2 speed is due to wiring so I'll trace that down later. My main concern at this point is the brakes. I have done some lurking in here and see many people have brake issues with these trucks. The guy I bought it from said that shortly after he replaced the motor he replaced the wheel cylinders in the back and relined the front shoes. So the brake system itself should be good. It's equipped with a hydro vac as well. With all of that said the brake line that runs from the master cylinder to the hydro vac itself was leaking so I took it off (crudely I might say too). The clips that hold it to the frame rail were stubborn and would not unbolt so I broke out the torch lol. Anyways I've searched and searched online and Ben called my local international and they are no help. I gave international my vin and they told me it was a bad vin I kindly informed the man I was reading it straight off the title and that it was a 69 and he said his computer didn't go back further that 81. So trying to be proactive I went to a local hydraulic line place and had one made. The only thing is the one that came off was 3/16" I.D. Rubber line to 5/16" I.D. Steel tubing. The one I had made is only 1/8" I.D. But I was assured it's rated to some crazy psi and would work. My question is will it work or will this line move enough fluid? I don't want to load the truck and figure out I can't stop while on the road. Anyone who could shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated. If it will work awesome if not I'd like to know before I spend a half a day bleeding brakes only to find out it was a waste. Thanks in advance.

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I would be concerned with the volume of fluid being inadequate through such a small line ,

Let me guess---- the hydraulic shop did not have the right fittings to "copy" your original line ???

The reason for the rubber part of the line is to allow a small bit of flex , The master is mounted to

the cab which has rubber mounts , Booster is mounted to frame Correct ??

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You are exactly correct about the fact the couldn't copy the fittings. But he also said that all of their brake line was 1/8" in the back. I tried more than 1 time at this place getting different guys so I guess thy really only made brake lines out of 1/8" but I find that very hard to believe. You are also correct about the master and booster mount points. That's exactly what I was thinking about inadequate fluid volume. Especially with it being the "main line" that feeds the hydro vac. What a bummer it's a really nice looking line stainless steel braided and all. With it being semi flexible too installation was going to be a breeze lol. Any suggestions on where to find the line I need?

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Chrome nickel brake line can be bent by hand , It also flares very easy , I would find a suitable front brake "rubber hose" (braided stainless if you like)

and just make up the line , Any 4x4 or-Hot Rod shop could help you out ,

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Thanks for all the advice. I called around today and napa carries various size tubing for brake lines. I'll most likely purchase the 5/16" I need and see if I can also find a rubber line close to it and take it back to he hydraulic place and let them bend it for me. Hopefully this solves the issue.

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Ok. So I have purchased the 5/16" line they sold it in various lengths so I picked up a 90" section with what I believe to be 1/2-20 fittings on the end which is what I need, but I'll measure them at work tomorrow. I also called a local place called Truck pro and they carry rubber line for brakes. I believe it's really for air brakes but either way it should hold enough psi for what I need. My only concern is that instead of 3/16" I.D. line it's 3/8" I.D. Will this be too big? The section of rubber line is only about 6-8". For no more than I need can this be used with no adverse affects? Thanks in advance.

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It has to be rated for very high pressure , 10,000 psi , yes that is ten thousand !!

Air brake Hose will not work ,It will fail drastically !!!

Try to find a brake hose ,by searching online or in a physical catalog that will show you

dimensions and fitting sizes etc, Even small hydraulic hose is rated for very high pressure ,

Let me look search around a bit see what I can find :)

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It may be worth a phone call to "Russell " they are a performance line and hose company , They have stainless brake hoses

with any adapter you could imagine , But I could not find sizes of the hose

It may help to find the IH part number of the hose also , It may cross to a replacement ,

Lastly ,I read many a thread where people just ran steel line the whole way and forgot about the rubber hose

with no ill effects

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Ok. Thanks Kevin for all your advice. Over the weekend I got the brake line on. I ended up going back to the hydraulic place and having them bend the line for me. I put it on and started to bleed the brakes. Starting first with the hydrovac, then moving back to the rear right wheel, then rear left, front right, and when I thought I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel BAM. I Crack open the bleeder to the front left wheel and just a tiny dribble of fluid. So I have my helper pump the brakes again and I try the other bleeder on the same wheel and the same thing just a tiny bit of fluid runs out. Literally barely anything. I have my helper pump the brakes one more time and hold them and I try both bleeders again and pretty much nothing happens. I back the bleeder off even further and still get nothing. I was running low on brake fluid to put in anyway so I just called it a night. Any ideas on what could be wrong. All the other drums and hydrovac bled fine. Lines look great. Master cylinder is been changed about mid last year and the truck barely driven since. I know for fact that the rear drums were relined and adjusted and also new wheel cylinders in the rear. I'm not sure about the front so my question is could both wheel cylinders be bad on that side and causing the issue? I didn't see any signs of a leaking wheel cylinder on that side but I could have missed it. Any ideas or suggestions to fixing the problem will be appreciated.

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1. Take the bleeders right out and clean them thoroughly ,see if that makes a difference.

2 Does the front axle have a single rubber hose , or a flex hose for each front wheel , the reason i am asking

is I have seen the hose fittings rust up a bit and choke the flex lines so much they wont flow ,

See if you can get a brake line loosened up at the frame end of the flex hose(s) and check your flow of fluid at

that point

3 not sure if your truck has a shuttle valve ,in case of pressure loss, the valves trips and isolates the area of failure,

Usually turning on a warning light at the same time .

sometimes the valves move , and then does not like to move back to center , usually caused by rust corrosion etc.

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Ok. I didn't know if taking the bleeders all the way out would help or hurt I'll do that first. And each front wheel has a pretty big rubber line that looks similar to a hydraulic hose and then it connects to two hard lines that connect to the drum I assume 1 for each wheel cylinder. And lastly idk if it has that valve or not but I'll check. I didn't see any warning lights come one while the truck was running but I'll take another look. I was actually wondering about a bad check valve myself. After I clean the bleeders could I Crack open both bleeder valves and try to gravity bleed that particular wheel and see if any fluid ever starts coming?

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Loadstar

If you try to gravity bleed the brake system, the air being lighter will float to the top. The best way to bleed the brakes is by back bleeding each wheel cylinder then the air is forced up to the master cylinder and doesn't have to oppose gravity.

GT&T

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Ok. I understand. I didn't know if it was a good idea or not. I'm just trying to get anything to come out of these two bleeders at all. I guess I'll take the bleeders out and clean them up first and if that doesn't work maybe check for a blockage. I also didn't know if a bad wheel cylinder would cause this issue.

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I'm new here as well. Just bought a 69 1600 with the 345 as well. I need a new master cylinder to get started on brakes. Does anyone know where a reliable source for parts for these trucks? Thanks.

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Well, obviously it would be desirable to get as much as you can from the Navistar dealer.

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Currenco

Welcome to the forum.

If you have an O'Reileys or a NAPA auto parts store I would check with them, also Auto Zone. You may want to check if there is a kit available to rebuild your master cylinder. You can clean and wire brush your master cylinder and there should be a number cast into the housing. The parts people can cross this over to their kit.

I don't know which way would be cheaper, but just in case that there isn't a new or rebuilt cylinder available then there may be a kit that will get you going again.

GT&T

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