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Ron Sorden

Bought gas today!!!

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Was in Champaign Il last two days while Mom had surgery and gas was 2.19 at several stations. Diesel was 2.45. South 30 miles in hometown was 2.32.

WE NEED A FEW MORE POSTS

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Gas was $2.19 in Worthington MN the other day. The Casey's I looked at didn't have deisel.

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Just had my farm tank filled up in January with regular gas. Cost me just over $1000 for 300 gallons. Thats getting way too close to $4 a gallon.

Price at the pumps is a little higher. 95 cents a litre or about $4.27 a gallon.

Looks like its time to start growing our own fuel (oats) and farming with horses. ;)

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Filled one tank with Farm Diesel this week for 2.02. Road diesel is 2.31. Gas is running about 2.14.

Chads

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BUMPPPP!!! It seems this post has surpassed the "other "post in replys now!!! :P

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Filled one tank with Farm Diesel this week for 2.02.  Road diesel is 2.31.  Gas is running about 2.14.

Chads

Just now filled up the Honda, 2.03 here at SA. (12 Feb 06)

best, randy

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Here in Greene County, Il. , gas(10% ethanol) is $2.25 and clear fuel(11% soydiesel) is $2.69.

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I ranted this in another thread already, but it's gone and this is a better place anyways, so here goes again! :P

The big problem with alternate fuels at the moment, is that there's no money for "Big Oil" in them - in fact, very much the opposite. I deeply suspect that that's why they're taking so long to get here, indeed I suspect they're actively blocking a lot of development, buying-up patents and burying them, paying-off Senators to stonewall legislation etc.

An interim fix would be ethanol. I saw a show during the last big gas crunch, that Brazil brewed most of their fuel from sugar cane ethanol, whenever oil was above $25 a barrel; it was expensive enough that it wasn't worth doing when oil was below $25 a barrel. I bet they're making a killing just now! {- but I admit I was too lazy to Google-up some numbers... :blush: }

We make most of our industrial sugar from corn; and if the corn crop falls-over, we could use sugar beets. I bet we could grow a big slice of our gasoline from ethanol. It would give us two super benefits - ethanol gives-off less pollution, and all the farm land would be back in REAL BIG demand, so the guvmint would have to stop ignoring farmers. :D Indeed, we could sell whatever we didn't need and become the "fuel basket" for Europe, Japan and China, none of which have the land or the agriculture expertise to grow their own.

(Three big benefits, actually - we could tell the Middle-Eastern gentlemen to go pound sand; I hear they've got a lot of it there... :rolleyes: )

The long-term solution is the hydrogen fuel cell. Hydrogen fuel cells are completely non-polluting, their only byproduct is water (and some diesel subs are now run off fuel cells, and the water is so pure that the crews drink it).

But best of all, consider the nature of oil vs hydrogen. OIL = COMMODITY, it's in limited supply and you have to buy it from BIG OIL - and the obscene profit levels they've been making since Katrina show just about everyone where their interests lie.

But HYDROGEN = PRODUCT - you make it from water, anybody can make it, and so if BIG OIL tries to gouge us on hydrogen like they've been doing for gas & diesel, Big Electricity and Big Autos and Big Wal-Mart and Big Bill Gates will all say "WOW! You can make THAT BIG a profit margin with this Hydrogen stuff? WE'LL MAKE IT TOO!!!" And everybody (including Uncle Jim on his back 40) start making hydrogen, and then there's overcapacity, and competition, and prices take a tumble.

And everytime there's a monopoly forms over hydrogen, like the present oil cartel does (I take it everybody else has noticed that all the gas stations of whatever brand name, all go UP or DOWn the same amount, during the same half-hour? Price fixing? Naaaaaaaah... :angry: ), then somebody else enters the market, and more skilled farmers and backwoodsmen start making their own again. It's sorta' like trying to outlaw marijuana when it grows wild in the ditches.

Hydrogen fuel cells offer a couple other real big advantages. You make it out of water, by electrolysis; put in electricity, and hydrogen comes off one electrode, oxygen off the other; it's ideal for local production with windmills. You never run out of water because as the hydrogen is ised up, it turns right back into the exact same amount of water you started with; so you use the same water over and over again, and never need a drop more.

You run it through a fuel cell (or two or three) and it makes electricity. Electric motors push trains so I imagine they'd push cars, trucks and tractors. Its big advantage over battery-powered cars is that you fill your tank with hydrogen and you're back on the road in minutes, instead of taking hours to recharge your batteries.

Sorry for blathering-on about all this - my real driving points are watching Big Oil go under, and the thought of handing the Ay-rabs and Venezuelans a big fistful of dollars and telling them (with a great big grin on our face) "Here - payment in full for the last oil we're gonna buy from you. Don't spend it all in one place!" :lol:

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Please send detailed plans for building 50 gallon a day hydrogen producing facility. Or for mobile unit that produces 7- 8 gallons an hour to burn hydrogen in tractor. We (the air, the plants, the wild life, and I) thankyou for your cooperation of sending all needed information to produce my new farming fuel. HD19 :-)

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Gaseous or liquid hydrogen?  ;)  :D

Being hydrogen is a lower BTU than propane, I will assume that it would take more fuel in either form to run 120HP engine. If plans are for mobile, then it would only need to be in gaseous state.

If Plans are for nonmobile, Then I would be looking at the liquid form of hydrogen. I would suspect in an engine that burns 7-8 gal. of propane that the figure might arise to 10 or so gallons an hour for equal work.

Now for one more question, can one adapt LPG fuel systems to hydrogen fuels? :mellow: Thank you , please send plans. :rolleyes::D:lol::D:lol::D

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Probably more than that. :( One drawback of hydrogen is a physics problem - the energy to be found in a fuel is directly proportional to its weight; this is one reason why diesel fuel has more energy than gasoline, it's heavier. But a 50-gallon drum of liquid hydrogen only weighs 50 pounds, so there ain't a lot of weight there.

Plus of course, liquid hydrogen is devilish stuff to work with... Gaseous hydrogen has the advantage that it doesn't have to be at 400-odd degrees below zero, but then there's even less of it in your tank. That's why I suspect electric drive with fuel cells is the only viable long-term hydrogen solution. Fuel cells use hydrogen at almost 100% efficiency, so you'd get decent "gas mileage" with a tank of gaseous hydrogen. Up north (KoO's famous "GWN"), cars would have to burn it in normal gasoline engines, as the fuel cells would be prone to freezing; but you'd need BIG tanks if you wanted to get any decent range. You'd have no worries at all about it freezing! :rolleyes:

Other than that - real easy to make. Water, with a bit of salt or acid added to make it an electrolyte (otherwise it won't conduct electricity and your electrodes will just sit there). One electrode emits bubbles of oxygen, one of hydrogen. Collect the hydrogen (remembering it's an explosive gas), compress it into tanks (remembering that as the universe's smallest atom, it's real good at leaking) - and you're off and running. Platinum electrodes recommended, as softer metals tend to eat-away. Top-up with pure water as required; the run-off from your fuel cells will be just about sufficient, if you control leakage.

Such a system lends itself brilliantly to alternate energy sources; wind, water or sunlight. Modern solar cells are appallingly inefficient; 5% is the best I've heard (I was too lazy to Google that, too :blush: ), so there's a better way; a sun-tracking mirror array that focuses light on a boiler grid, and a steam turbine. I remember reading, I think it was in National Geographic, of a solar array somewhere down in the southern U.S. desert that was producing 5,200 degree temperatures :o So the world's deserts become valuable collector points for sunlight, to power electrolysis plants.

I read a global-warming expert saying the real threat of global warming is the possibility of the Greenland ice cap melting and submerging the Gulf Stream under outflows of fresh water. The Gulf Stream is the major heat source of Europe, which would be sub-Arctic without it; he says we've been living in a mini-heat wave for the last 1,500 years or so, and that the "normal" climate for the Northern hemisphere is summer temp's in the Fifties (fifteen-or-so Celsius), dry, cold and windy, and implied enormous disasters for northern hemisphere agriculture, mass starvation etc etc yada yada yada.

That's all-very-well-and-good, but the last time this climate gripped the Earth, humanity didn't have heavy-gauge clear plastic sheeting. I'd be willing to bet that we could greenhouse the whole North American continent if we had to; it wouldn't be either cheap or easy, but it's amazing what starvation will make a man do! :lol: We'd need electric farm equipment in the confined greenhouse spaces, but all that extra wind would make wind generators practical for large-scale hydrogen manufacture.

And all that local hydrogen manufacture would make Big Oil, and certain Middle Eastern terrorist-supporting states, severely impoverished. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww... :D

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- Oh yes; you wanted detailed plans? They're on the EPA website:

http://www.epa.gov/

Clicking on the above link constitutes your formal and binding legal consent for inspectors and qualified technical personnel from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Pressurised Gases Storage Safety Division of the U.S. Department of Transport (DOT), and Motor Fuels Taxation Department officials of the U.S. Infernal Revenue Service (IRS) to conduct no-notice inspections at their convenience of your premises, properties, out-buildings and wooded areas on or adjoining any lands you may frequently, regularly or casually occupy, forever and ever, Big Government without end, Amen.

- I did mention I'm Canadian... ? :P:lol::lol:

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liquid hydrogen is devilish stuff to work with

ZX, Are you saying that liquid hydrogen is not the same requirements to handle has LPG? Would it have to be handles more in the order of Acetyline where they have inner chambers in tanks to control it? Wonder at what pressure the hydrogen gas will turn into hydrogen liquid?

But a 50-gallon drum of liquid hydrogen only weighs 50 pounds
Hard to believe that a liquid would only weigh in at 1 pound a gallon. - Liquid nitrogen is heavier than that.
(remembering that as the universe's smallest atom, it's real good at leaking)

Who would care as long as its cheap to make and can make lots of it quick. :D

- Oh yes; you wanted detailed plans? They're on the EPA website:

http://www.epa.gov/

QUOTE(OFFICIAL NOTICE)

Clicking on the above link constitutes your formal and binding legal consent for inspectors and qualified technical personnel from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Pressurised Gases Storage Safety Division of the U.S. Department of Transport (DOT), and Motor Fuels Taxation Department officials of the U.S. Infernal Revenue Service (IRS) to conduct no-notice inspections at their convenience of your premises, properties, out-buildings and wooded areas on or adjoining any lands you may frequently, regularly or casually occupy, forever and ever, Big Government without end, Amen.

- I did mention I'm Canadian... ? 

Please down load all pertanit information and send to me, Do not want epa and other entities investigating my mobile self propelled methane emitting digesters. :mellow::ph34r::lol::D:lol: HD19

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Liquid hydrogen liquefies at about -400 degrees. It would need much improved storage facilities, probably huge thermoses, and making them portable would call in possibilities of all sorts of hideous accidents - a small leak or splash would instantly destroy any tissue it hit. But the technology for LPG and LNG is in regular commercial use, so solving this is also just a matter of technology. Liquifying it would be another story entirely.

I went back on the EPA website and they'd removed the detailed plans - sorry... :(;)

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Liquid  hydrogen liquefies at about -400 degrees. It would need much improved storage facilities, probably huge thermoses, and making them portable would call in possibilities of all sorts of hideous accidents - a small leak or splash would instantly destroy any tissue it hit. But the technology for LPG and LNG is in regular commercial use, so solving this is also just a matter of technology. Liquifying it would be another story entirely.

I went back on the EPA website and they'd removed the detailed plans - sorry... :(  ;)

Go figure, the big buck oil industry probably bought the epa off and had them yank the plans just when I thought I would start producing hydrogen gas and sell it world wide and make so much that I would become a hydrogenaire or maybe just a trillionaire. Isn't life a gas.

ZX, thanks for looking. Maybe need to get spies and find out who stole the plans :o:unsure::ph34r::lol::D:lol::D

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JD Humm - Jere, just looked now at the SA sign up on the hill, 1.99.

(14 Feb 06)

best, randy

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Bought gas yesterday at $2.25 gal.

Ron

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Bought gas yesterday at $2.25 gal.

Ron

Was just now over in Shakopee, saw 1.96 there. (14 Feb 06)

best, randy

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While it isn't gas, I filled the Super Duty w/ #2 Diesel for $2.39 today. Now it sound like cold weather is coming back, kinda regretting buying the #2.

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