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Rob30

CAT Highway Trucks

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I saw two Cat trucks last week. One in Tampa FL, the other in Ottawa Canada. One was a tractor pulling a float, the other a roll off bed. Both were owned by the respective local Cat equipment rental stores. Made me realize how few of these trucks I have seen on the road. Are they that bad that only the Cat agents are buying them?

Am I right in thinking that these trucks are built under license by International? And, are they powered with MaxxForce engines painted Cat yellow?

Any thoughts?

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I hate to say it but I think this truck might be a flop. I have worked on trucks and been around truckers all my life and the die hard CAT people wanted a CAT engine in their KW's, PETES or Internationals, not an international in their CAT.

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I don't see many of the Cat trucks, either. You would think that more would be on the road 2-1/2 years after they were introduced. In Cat's defense, they only have the set-back front axle model in the road. Axle-forward designs are supposed to come soon.

I know little about the trucking industry but I will say that Cat seemed to do a lot of things right with the hood & cab. The powertrain...that's another story.

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Them Maxxforce are NLA I thought? Didn't Navi give up and go ISX?

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maxxforce is being revamped. they just pay a fine on all non emission compliant engines. they dropped the maxxforce 15 in favor of the isx15.

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I always laugh about navistar they use the MAN 11 and 13 liter engine but they thougth to do it better then MAN without urean aftertreatment In europe this are very good engine no problems why does Paccar it always better then Navistar ,Paccar use Daf engines!

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I hear cat is comming out with a emissions road motor. Probably junk just like every other emissions motors. My buddy just got 3 new WS's with the DD15. They will give problems if i was a bettin man.

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I understand the engine is good in Europe ,But its Navistars emissions components that cause the problem .

And problems is all they cause .

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what tommy says , the emissions are not good .

but the rest are not much better .

and the dealers are not much help .

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A contractor out of Richmond Va. (EJ Wade) is doing some work around here. I've seen 2 dumps, a 26 ft rollback, and a road tractor. Local Cat dealer has had one in stock for over 2 years. Eason

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I saw two Cat trucks last week. One in Tampa FL, the other in Ottawa Canada. One was a tractor pulling a float, the other a roll off bed. Both were owned by the respective local Cat equipment rental stores. Made me realize how few of these trucks I have seen on the road. Are they that bad that only the Cat agents are buying them?

Am I right in thinking that these trucks are built under license by International? And, are they powered with MaxxForce engines painted Cat yellow?

Any thoughts?

Yes, the truck is built by Navistar & badged Cat, the engine - I'm not sure who's building what part of that abortion. Originally I heard it was going to be a Navistar supplied long block with a Cat fuel & emmisions system. Then I heard the opposite, now I hear it may end up with a completely Cat built engine, last week they were going to drop they whole truck franchise.......who knows.

One thing is for certain, it's not the big selling masterstroke Cat proclaimed. I'm sure Paccar, Mack, Freightliner were a little worried at first, but this surely hasn't shook up their market as Cat & us dealers hoped.

It's kinda too bad, Cat was the one getting kicked in the teeth. Paccar wanted Cat to sell exclusively to them, Cat declined as they did not want to lose the sales at Navistar and Freightliner. Then Freightliner got gobbled up by Daimler, & they wanted to run Mercedes, Navistar brought out their Maxxforce, and Paccar brought out there own too. Suddenly Cat had a lot of money into a product and nowhere to sell it. I think the whole Cat truck idea was to get even, make everyone regret turning there backs to Cat & the whole piecebuilding of the power train.

But this is where someone really goofed, IMO - right idea, wrong way to do it. Take one of the lowest volume selling truck companies in the market - Navistar. Then proudly proclaim that they are the ones building the truck for you. Not only that, but then, the one piece of the market you had, the engine, gets farmed out & built by them. The one reason Cat powered Paccar owners would buy this new Navistar built truck would be to get a good old C15 - didn't happen. Now after the whole thing has gotten so messed up, can they even salvage the program? Time will tell.

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I see these trucks as more of a contruction type job. They suck to say it in a nice way. Think about what their OTR truck would look like. Lol. The good ole days of motors are over. Wait until that government regulation of no motor over 14 liters allowed to be put in truck hits. A dang 3406E is bigger than that!! Hey still got the 12.7 DD.

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I tell ya, before the big unveiling, there was a lot of excitement in our customer base. Contractors were standing in line with open checkbooks waiting for the Cat truck. There were OTR guys consulting with aftermarket sleeper builders on installing a bunk on the Cat chassis. It was looking up for the Cat truck.

Then, release was pushed back by a year, the bigger 15L engine wasn't to be available till a later date that has come and gone without happening, the intial trucks sold had several reliability issues. And on top of all that - DEF became an acceptable trade off to most buyers. That's something I doubt anyone would have guessed 10 yrs ago, and non DEF use emmisions compliance was something Cat & Navistar were banking on being their big selling point.

So then the truck came out and really didn't have any sort of "Cat" look, in fact it is quite obviously Navistar looking. Open the hood and it is a complicated nightmare, especially when compared to the relative simplicity of the DEF / EGR competition. The trucks are heavy - sure they can take the abuse of a jobsite, but they give up payload when legal weights come into the equation.

And above all, they have a Cat price, historically Cat has always been more expensive. They could point to their dealers and say it's worth it to have the support and it probably is. But in this case, the dealers have to go to Navistar to get the parts, information, warranty support - and it's nothing like dealing with Cat. So why not just stick with the proven Paccars, or go buy the lower priced Navistar bretheren.

On a bright side for those of us in the service end of the business. There are a lot of guys who want a Cat powered Pete, KW, etc. They either buy a clean older truck to rebuild or are keeping the one they bought pre -'09.

The new Paccar engines have their own issues from what I've heard, one customer had 3 down with holes in the blocks at one time a couple months back. They are now planning to have us overhaul their older Cats rather than buy new trucks.

We even had a guy have us put an aftermarket DPF emmisions kit on his '07 Pete with a Cat. Nearly $20k so he could run into California with his older truck. Myself, I'm still waiting for the big earthquake to drop that particular state in the ocean.

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Cattech, Is california really that strict ?? That an owner operator who has a truck inspected in another state and passes their emissions rules cannot

deliver or operate in CA . I don't know anything about interstate trucking just curious, How do they enforce these rules??

Kevin

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I am happy whe have no navistartrucks in europe IH trided with daf and sedonatkinson whe all no what happend paccar is a better company but they also not come in west europe with there trucks no change

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I'm in MN so IDK the exact rules, but the from what I've heard, if you're truck doesn't have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) it is not allowed in California.

As far as I know, they don't have emmisions checking stations, but they do have weight stations just inside the border, where they also check into whether your truck meets their standards or not.

Don't know if there is a fine, or if they just turn you around, but yes, to run in Cali' your truck has to meet more requirements than the other continental 47 states.

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Cali is a joke! No truck gets in unless its a 07 or 09 motor iirc. Then the certified clean idle sticker has to be in place to idle more than i think it was 5 mintues. I tell everyone to go but glider kits before they stop them to. Then throw a 3406 or a c15 and have at it!! I've never been around a cat truck but watched a few vids and seen a couple on the road. They dont look to impressive to me. If you want a heavy truck is say WS they are great!

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I have three friends that hauled cars for United Van Lines for many years. They hauled from the east coast to the west coast and back several times a year. They made bigs bucks for a few years. They ran Petes and KW's with CAT's. Wouldn't have anything else.Two of them have recently quit trucking all together,due to fuel prices,DOT regs and and older trucks not being able to go to California. One of them is still trucking but only goes as far west as Texas. He says he is just not going to go in debt 200 grand just to please California. Can't say that I blame him.

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Cattech ,I dont wanna see this happen, but how long before are goverment stops us from using these older engines or rebuilding them?One local guy here took ISX's out of his new Petes and put old 3406's in em.These trucks are ones who pull dumptrailers,hauling salt,corn,stone.Seems to good to be true, for very long.Kinda lost touch with all this I've been done working for the Truck dealer.

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We in the US see only a portion of the Cat trucks. In 2010, they began selling a CT-610 based on the Transtar and a CT-630 based on the Prostar in overseas markets. I have a brochure from Australia. The Paystar-based CT-660 followed in late 2011 to be sold both here and overseas. A recent report to a retirees meeting says Springfield is building about 40 Cats per month--the Prostar model I believe and says they are selling for $220,000 overseas vs. $125,000 for the Navistar model here.

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Cattech ,I dont wanna see this happen, but how long before are goverment stops us from using these older engines or rebuilding them?One local guy here took ISX's out of his new Petes and put old 3406's in em.These trucks are ones who pull dumptrailers,hauling salt,corn,stone.Seems to good to be true, for very long.Kinda lost touch with all this I've been done working for the Truck dealer.

I don't have an in that gives me a picture into the future any more than anyone else has. But look into any of our current laws and the people pushing them and ask yourself if they might try it. I wouldn't be the least surprised.

I can easily see truck owners being forced to put on an aftermarket DPF kit or retire the truck for a newer one. I hope that doesn't come to pass, as the price tag will put many guys out of business. And all of it for a false premise that they are destroying the enviroment.

It's almost funny. The diesel manufacturers cleaned up their emmisions by nearly 500% from 1990 to 2000. The trucks were running clean and efficient. These emmisions standards came along and efficiency dropped by nearly 50%, but the do-gooders just plod along proclaiming their sainthood in the name of enviro-friendliness based on politically driven science. I would pick their next target, but I'm afraid it might just give them ideas on who to destroy next.

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We in the US see only a portion of the Cat trucks. In 2010, they began selling a CT-610 based on the Transtar and a CT-630 based on the Prostar in overseas markets. I have a brochure from Australia. The Paystar-based CT-660 followed in late 2011 to be sold both here and overseas. A recent report to a retirees meeting says Springfield is building about 40 Cats per month--the Prostar model I believe and says they are selling for $220,000 overseas vs. $125,000 for the Navistar model here.

40 Trucks Per month. My wife works for Volvo. Right now they are building 130 a day,six days a week.with over 16.000 on the order board.They build 6 VHDs a day, which is a direct competitor to the Cat. Looks like Cat has a little catching up to do.

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Cattech ,I dont wanna see this happen, but how long before are goverment stops us from using these older engines or rebuilding them?One local guy here took ISX's out of his new Petes and put old 3406's in em.These trucks are ones who pull dumptrailers,hauling salt,corn,stone.Seems to good to be true, for very long.Kinda lost touch with all this I've been done working for the Truck dealer.

I don't have an in that gives me a picture into the future any more than anyone else has. But look into any of our current laws and the people pushing them and ask yourself if they might try it. I wouldn't be the least surprised.

I can easily see truck owners being forced to put on an aftermarket DPF kit or retire the truck for a newer one. I hope that doesn't come to pass, as the price tag will put many guys out of business. And all of it for a false premise that they are destroying the enviroment.

It's almost funny. The diesel manufacturers cleaned up their emmisions by nearly 500% from 1990 to 2000. The trucks were running clean and efficient. These emmisions standards came along and efficiency dropped by nearly 50%, but the do-gooders just plod along proclaiming their sainthood in the name of enviro-friendliness based on politically driven science. I would pick their next target, but I'm afraid it might just give them ideas on who to destroy next.

Would their next target (s) happen to have high flotation , lack of rubber tires , and tremendous operating expenses :)

Kevin

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Would their next target (s) happen to have high flotation , lack of rubber tires , and tremendous operating expenses :)

Kevin

If you are thinking things with steel tracks that have the capability to move dirt, it's too late, they're already messing up that market too. EGR, DPFs, DEF, the whole works.

One good thing on that front though, since the entire machine is made by one manufacturer, they can place the emmissions package away from the engine which greatly improves the serviceabilty vs trying to package it all on the side of the engine to fit another OEM.

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