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Tractractor

What do you do with your Quadratrack?

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Now for comment or two from myself. If you had a properely mounted ripper on the quad say one directly off a D9H and put him to work ripping in CLAY not rock as rubber and rock do not go well togeather the quad would do a good job but, it you had a D9H and the quad working side by side( I use the D9H Cat for a example as they have fairly close hp out puts and it is a flat track as some of you on here despise the high drives) the 9 would rip clay for appx. 3000 hrs with out any majior repairs where as the quad I hate to say it would be headed for a junk yard. around here a set of tracks on a quad will not last over a 1000 hrs as they self destruct the other issue is with the finals and transmitions and the track frames as they don't often make it out of warenty with out repairs. This is IF they are used in scraper duty. NOW saying that It is hard for a D9H to keep up witha quad pulling a plow or doing most any other field work as in a ag opperation it is hard to beat a quad even the new Chalangers will have a hard time. Now put two pans behind the quad, and one behind the 9 both carying the same amount appx. 35 yds each the quad will make 6 rounds to each of the 9's on a 1 mile hual. In a day who has made the most money each getting $2 a yd. / yd. hualed?? should be a easy answer here the quad, even if it does not last as long as the D9, the quad is cheap in hourley opperating costs. As you can see it is like comparing apples to oranges, it just depends on which fruit works best for you.

p.s. the H series in high drives was the first to offer diff stearing. Also a D6R with diff stear aginst a D6R with dead track stear (yes you can order them this way) will make the dead stear look stupid as one can push twice the dirt in a day.

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Hi, Folks.

            O.K., so it's a little hard to organise a 'pull-off' between the the two main protagonists here. And who of them wants to risk damaging his machine anyway. So why not go look up the Nebraska test results for each and see what the drawbar pounds pull was for each.

Then ponder the fact that the TD24 would have been tested as a bare tractor at 140 hp as it first hit the market and again at, I think, 163 hp when it was upgraded. Then add a heavier(?) 290hp engine and a blade hanging out the front and see what you have.

The blade and lifting gear would be roughly 4 tons - at around 100-120% (guesstimate) additional to the drawbar pull pulling power - because it is so far out in front holding the front down when pulling. Then you might be getting somewhere close to an answer.

In an actual 'tail-to-tail' drawbar pull with a cable connecting the two, I think I'd bet on the TD24 as I have a LOT of experience with steel tracks and their tractive capabilities. Having said that, I have to admit that I have NO experience of the tractive capabilities of rubber-tracked tractors.

Also, as a previous poster brought up, I'd just purely LOVE to see a quad-track with a rear MOUNTED (NOT some towed implement.) ripper working in hard rock. I suspect it would be a shining example of self-destruction. Drawbar pull is about the only half-way valid comparison between a crawler and a quad-track, simply because they are designed and built for two totally different applications in two very different environments.

You all have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

P.S. R-Cubed, you take care of that drive train with all those extra horses up front.

The problem is that crawlers weren't Nebraska tested unless they were intended soley for Ag use. Nebraska testing was/is for Ag tractors. I've never seen Nebraska tests for a modern crawler, although I'm pretty sure there are. Anybody got a copy?

Chads

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Dr Ernie

Just a thought or two I had while reading

your post.

If you were on a job that is tough enough

to pull a can with a D9 H. It would be paid

a lot more than a quad,because the quads

couldn't handle it.

If you are on a mile haul a 631 or 627

would rule and do the job cheaper.

Quads and the large rubber tire tractors

do their best on shorter hauls where they

have room to work.

Any time you drag a D9 H out to do a job

someone is going to pay big time.

In the right job the quads and big tractors

will clean house.

On a long push differential steer crawlers

are great. But lots of jobs require short

pushes and sharp turns. When you are

building logging roads. Most of the time

you are making cuts around hillsides.

When you are pushing stumps and boulders

over a fill and making a cut to sit on the

differential steer is useless. The same goes

with skidding logs. Most skidding is twisting

around stumps,boulders and trees. You use

the tail end of the cat to guide logs and pull

them clear of leave trees.

We are not allowed to build a straight trail.

Can't be able to see but only a few feet of

trail from the roads. Just buy a machine that

matches the job and keep good grousers on

it. Tracks on a commercial use crawler are just

like cutting bits,they are wear parts and figured

into operating cost.

I can replace tracks and rollers on a D5,for about

the same cost as 4 skidder tires. The tracks last

longer than the tires and are easier to change.

Each machine has its own place where it can

make production and money. If I only had a

choice of one logging machine,it would be a

crawler every time. If I was building large ponds,

or leveling a spot for a new Wal Mart I would be

looking at quads.

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Sawmill, You are correct about how every machine shines in its own place. The only disigrement that I have is a 627 costs more to run per hr. than a quad, and a quad with 2 pans will hual another 10 yds more than a round depending on the soil of course than the 627. Now if you can run a 627 flat out and can stay in the seat it will deffeniatly will move as much dirt in a day as the quad if not slightly more. I an not defending the quad here, just stating that it is a new tool in the earth moving industrie. One more thing I was mearly using the 9 with a pan as a compairision tool. The only time that I have seen one used was in real tough conditions. Any more here you are seeing track hoes and hual trucks used instead.

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Sawmill,  You are correct about how every machine shines in its own place.  The only disigrement that I have is a 627 costs  more to run per hr. than a quad, and a quad with 2 pans will hual another 10 yds more than a round depending on the soil of course than the  627.  Now if you can run a 627 flat out and can stay in the seat it will deffeniatly will move as much dirt in a day as the quad if not slightly more. I an not defending the quad here, just stating that it is a new tool in the earth moving industrie.  One more thing I was mearly using the 9 with a pan as a compairision tool.  The only time that I have seen one used was in real tough conditions.  Any more here you are seeing track hoes and hual trucks used instead.

Have seen 627's and 637's and 4wd tractors on the same job. The tractors and pans will easily outwork the wheeled scrapers if for no other reason than they can self load and do it much faster. There is very little speed difference on a loaded haul, although there may be some disadvantage to the tractors on the return, but not much. When it gets slippery. The ag tractors will generally keep going longer than the wheeled scrapers can. If a crew gets short of labor, the first thing parked is generally the wheeled scrapers.

Chads

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Dr Ernie

What I mean about the big ole ugly scrapers

doing the job cheaper is. On a mile haul they

will run for years,where the quads and tractors

would be beat to pieces in less time.

Just think how many time those little tracks

and rollers have to turn over in a mile at high

speed on a quad.

In a years time parts and downtime would eat

what its speed made on a long haul. I have heard

they like fuel too.

If you had a lot of material to move on a mile

haul,big shovels and rock trucks would make

more sense.

I am not knocking any of the machines,they

all have a place.

We had some big trees off the side of a steep

hill. I could have got them with my D5, but the

old 46A D8 made quick work out of it,and didn't

even strain. Just by having the right machine

handy I made a dollar or two easy.

But put both tractors in a normal skidding job

and the D5 would shine. Comparing different

purpose machines is like comparing a Greyhound

bus to a passenger train.

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---just to add to Sawmills point, a similair comparison could be made with the formally FMC skider's, made in Thunder Bay, Ontario, now Rocko tells me, they are KMC (?) and made in BC somewhere---on long hauls, as we had to do in NZ , often to satisfy a "logging consent " requirement, you could darn near see the dollar notes, flying off the tracks, not conventional tracks, as crawlers, but a tank type tracks , and as such, with the machines arse draggin' mud, because of the winch loading, they are mighty performers----but-----after the leads (distance ) opens up a little--the 518 's Cat's and the like reign supreme, because those tyres last for ever, esp with traction chains wrapped around them

-----and the track replacement costs on those skidder's is horrendous

Mike

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Hi Mike I agree with your views on operating costs of the KMC track skidder, we have a few customers with them & they said that if high gear is locked out then they do a lot better with them. There is a new design of track from Germany for them that was supplied to one customer who specializes in soft & or steep ground, tough site jobs, he has several TD20's & 3-4 KMC's. Haven't heard anymore on the new tracks. Here's a link to KMC. It's interesting to see all the applications for these machines.

http://www.kmc-kootrac.com/ Russ B)

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I met those kootrac guys down at the nw logging show. They have quite a nice machine. The tracks are driven from the front so that the slack side of the chain is allowed to roll over the terrain easier.

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Having the slack side on the bottom may make it ride better but in a strong pull it pulls the track tension spring in and loosens the track making it easier to come off. Just like when you push something backing up with a "real" crawler.

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We ran two FMC track skidders in 4 feet of

snow on a half mile skid. Where the logs were

pre decked and we had running room they did

a heck of a good job. They did well in snow or

boggy conditions.

But in tight spots and dry ground,they were

terrible. Stumps and rocks did a job on the

tracks and bogie wheels.

Another case of matching the machine to

the job. In their element nothing would run

with them. Change the conditions a little and

they became a headache.

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R Cubed On this machine there is no track recoil spring to compress, the rear idler is rigid, the suspension works on individual swinging arms that the road wheels are mounted on, this machine is built to pull a lot of wood in a forward direction. When it is pulling the track gets real tight on the top. It shows how it works on the Kootrac site. It's sort of an in between of the machines in this discussion, it has steel tracks, but they are rubber bushed & the original wheels had rubber tread, I think they've gone to all steel wheels now. This thing has army tank origins, a lot of tank carriers are still used on yarders up to the biggest models as well as tank drills that are used a lot in the steeper parts of this province for roadbuilding, they have a big diesel run air compresser & a boom mounted drill rig to drill blast holes. Where would we be without tracks? :) Glad to see so many other applications that use tracks here. In the north there are a lot of Foremosts & Nodwells with really wide tracks to get across the muskeg & swamps. A little off the main topic, thought you guys may be interested, here's a place to check them out. http://www.foremost.ca/vehh8.html

Russ B)

post-363-1125290989.jpg

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Them FMC's and Bomberders(minni Fmc) were wild to run beings you were all ready past and over what was worrieng you before you knew it :P:wub::P:P:P:P:P

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Captain Crunch

The ones we used had large grapples,

and would go like heck on froze snow.

They pulled a big load of large logs pretty

handy. We couldn't have done that job

with anything else. We were skidding across

a golf course to the highway.

We pre bunched the logs with HD 11 grapple

cats . When the snow melted ,there was no

sign that we were even there.

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