Vintage Ads

[Ron Cook]

6 hours ago, George 2 said:

The 141 was introduced for the 1954 harvest season and ran through to 1958. Replaced by the 151 in 1959. The 181 was also introduced in 1959. The 101 was introduced in 1957.

My dad bought a new open cockpit 101 in the summer of 1958.  I ran it mostly.  I did not like it in itchy  milo and when it got a 2-row corn head in 1960, I really didn't like it.  Dang near froze to death on that thing in late Nov and Dec.  I left for college in the fall of 1961 and when I stopped back at the farm, it seems the chickens, milk cow, and combine with no cab were all gone.

Ron

[Big Bud guy]

7 hours ago, George 2 said:

The 141 was introduced for the 1954 harvest season and ran through to 1958. Replaced by the 151 in 1959. The 181 was also introduced in 1959. The 101 was introduced in 1957.

The 151 came out in 1957.  I know because that is what year mine is. 

[Big Bud guy]

23 hours ago, Delta Dirt said:

Thanks------I had figured maybe in the $5--6,000 range.

Looks like the Cockshutt still had the bottom mounted engine in 1960.

My dad bought two 141's in 1954+/-  --------and ending up parking the 125.  When was the 141 first introduced?

Moving the engine up top was a big item for the 141.

DD 

The engine was moved up top on the 127.  The 127 was the bridge between the old first generation 123/125 design and the 141.  The 127 and 141 used the same engine both mounted on the top.  The grain tank on the 127 was similar to a 141 but still used the old truck transmission and chain final drive like the 123/25.  Only difference was IH finally added two variable speed pulleys between the transmission and engine giving the 127 variable speed propulsion.  I rode with an old gentleman one time on his 141.  It was a very miserable combine more so then other open station combines because the engine blew the dust and chaff right at the operator. 

[Loadstar]

Here is a 1952 ad featuring the "new" model 127 and 64 pull type. 

[redturbo]

As a young teenager I got drag one of these around the field.  Was at local toy show,  found a guy that could build me one.  Its made out of wood other than the tires,  I'm happy with it.

 

 

[Loadstar]

1 hour ago, redturbo said:

As a young teenager I got drag one of these around the field.  Was at local toy show,  found a guy that could build me one.  Its made out of wood other than the tires,  I'm happy with it.

Very nice! Although I do have that White brochure I am envious of the hand built replica. It is a good likeness of the real thing. Now you just need to get one of these White 6200 windrowers built to complete the harvest crew. 

 

[George 2]

8 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

The 151 came out in 1957.  I know because that is what year mine is. 

Was yours a preproduction model? I have all the Canadian advertising brochures from that period and the Farmers Catalogues and the 151 was declared as NEW in the 1959 issue. Similarly for the 181. The 101 was advertised as new for the 1957 year. Is it possible yours was a 1958 model as IH always made a small advance run the year before full production. Similarly, the model 80 pull type was advertised as NEW in the 1960 Farmers Catalogue. However, my two uncles bought a NEW model 80 in July 1959. One of them knowing that I knew a bit about which models IH had in their catalogue asked me what was the current model. I told him it was the 76. They told me this was a number 80. So I accompanied them when we went to see it and sure enough it was a 80 with a very low serial number and built in the spring of 1959 before the steel strike. The steel strike cost IH a bunch of production that summer. And the advertising didn't start in the farm paper until March 1960. There was a bunch of problems with the pitman drive and ours had to be welded that summer. Then the dealer called my uncles in March 1960 and told him there was an update package of parts to replace the defective pitman rod rocker assembly. His service man came to our place that spring and replaced all the defective parts with the updated parts. That was the good part about IH. If there was a problem they always had a recall and fixed them all. This recall was concurrent with the 460, 560, and 660 final drive modifications and they also fixed all of them. To me it must have been an expensive year for recalls.    

[George 2]

13 minutes ago, Loadstar said:

Very nice! Although I do have that White brochure I am envious of the hand built replica. It is a good likeness of the real thing. Now you just need to get one of these White 6200 windrowers built to complete the harvest crew. 

 

Was that windrower a rebadged RENN windrower? It looks similar to the Massey unit (455?) that was built by RENN. Another question is, if it is a RENN was that when White abandoned the Kilberry model 502 windrower that Cockshutt and Oliver sold? Kilberry had been sold to Joe MacDonald and he mentions in his biography the loss of the windrower contract and the effect it had on MacDon. Through some skillful marketing Joe was able to place all the already built units with other dealers and CCIL.

[Loadstar]

28 minutes ago, George 2 said:

Was that windrower a rebadged RENN windrower? It looks similar to the Massey unit (455?) that was built by RENN. Another question is, if it is a RENN was that when White abandoned the Kilberry model 502 windrower that Cockshutt and Oliver sold? Kilberry had been sold to Joe MacDonald and he mentions in his biography the loss of the windrower contract and the effect it had on MacDon. Through some skillful marketing Joe was able to place all the already built units with other dealers and CCIL.

Yes, it was a Renn. Also pretty much the same machine as the Massey 655 (I've got one of those). They were a big improvement over the previous White?Cockshutt 504 swathers. At least th 504 had a decent little liquid cooled GM 4 cyl. engine which was an improvement over the ubiquitous V4 Wisconsin but those troublesome planetary drives and brakes were just a headache. To me anyway. Hydrostatic drive in the Renn models eliminated a lot of the previous drive weaknesses. Here is the back page of the Renn brochure from 1979 giving all the specifications. That Chrysler slant six was a good engine too. 

[dewets]

On 10/21/2017 at 8:34 PM, Loadstar said:

Wish I could help but hardly any of the vintage ads included a price. The closest exception I have is this Cockshutt 428 combine ad from 1960 at $6912. That is F.O.B. Brantford and I guess there would be some freight on it to get out here to Sask. No cutting parts included at that price, just the ten foot  pickup header. Did it include the pickup? Maybe not. Anyway, it is interesting to compare to today's prices. There was a time when a brand new combine was priced about the same as a quarter section of farm land here. I think now you might buy a half section for the price of a new combine. 

My Dad bought a Cockshutt 429 SP in 1956 brand new (for about £5,200 South African), and I still remember the local farmers' co-op delivering the combine to our farm.  The old Cockshutt 112 just didn't want to go to harvest that year... 
Dad always maintained that the Cockshutt harvested a clean sample with very little going out the rear end.
We used that 429 combine till 1982 when it was replaced by a MF510.

Oohhh!  The sound of that 6-cyl Chrysler side valve engine!!!  And petrol was not an issue at about 2 shillings (about 20c) an Imperial gallon.  Fresh "air con" was included, ye just didn't get the cab...  And you had to supply your own wide brimmed hat! 

[Loadstar]

17 hours ago, dewets said:

My Dad bought a Cockshutt 429 SP in 1956 brand new (for about £5,200 South African), and I still remember the local farmers' co-op delivering the combine to our farm.  The old Cockshutt 112 just didn't want to go to harvest that year... 

Oohhh!  The sound of that 6-cyl Chrysler side valve engine!!!  And petrol was not an issue at about 2 shillings (about 20c) an Imperial gallon.  Fresh "air con" was included, ye just didn't get the cab...  And you had to supply your own wide brimmed hat! 

Yes, the countryside resonated with the sound of flathead Chryslers back in those days. Cockshutt's and Massey's engine of choice working away down there under the grain pan of their combines. It was a big improvement when they re-located the engine up top in the 430 Cockshutt combines. And the 4/510 Masseys. 

Here is an ad for that old 112 Cockshutt combine from about 1949. 

[U-C]

On 10/24/2017 at 12:59 AM, Loadstar said:

Yes, the countryside resonated with the sound of flathead Chryslers back in those days. Cockshutt's and Massey's engine of choice working away down there under the grain pan of their combines. It was a big improvement when they re-located the engine up top in the 430 Cockshutt combines. And the 4/510 Masseys. 

Here is an ad for that old 112 Cockshutt combine from about 1949. 

nice combine

Here is an ad for the SIMAR tractor T-100 (a total of 160 were made)

 

[U-C]

 

[Big Bud guy]

Never have seen that before.  Using the engine has counter balance to the mounted plow.  That's what I assume anyway. 

[Big Bud guy]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 11:59 PM, Loadstar said:

Yes, the countryside resonated with the sound of flathead Chryslers back in those days. Cockshutt's and Massey's engine of choice working away down there under the grain pan of their combines. It was a big improvement when they re-located the engine up top in the 430 Cockshutt combines. And the 4/510 Masseys. 

Here is an ad for that old 112 Cockshutt combine from about 1949. 

The engine was still in the wrong spot.  Massey never did figure out were to mount the engine.   I don't know what was worse our 510 diesel or an IH 141. 

[Loadstar]

21 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

The engine was still in the wrong spot.  Massey never did figure out were to mount the engine.   I don't know what was worse our 510 diesel or an IH 141. 

I'm betting that the guys used to working on an engine tucked down underneath the grain pan thought that big V8 up on top of the 510 was a huge improvement in accessibility. This Super 92 ad must have been one of the last ones in the 1963 Country Guide magazine. 

[Big Bud guy]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:43 PM, George 2 said:

Was yours a preproduction model? I have all the Canadian advertising brochures from that period and the Farmers Catalogues and the 151 was declared as NEW in the 1959 issue. Similarly for the 181. The 101 was advertised as new for the 1957 year. Is it possible yours was a 1958 model as IH always made a small advance run the year before full production. Similarly, the model 80 pull type was advertised as NEW in the 1960 Farmers Catalogue. However, my two uncles bought a NEW model 80 in July 1959. One of them knowing that I knew a bit about which models IH had in their catalogue asked me what was the current model. I told him it was the 76. They told me this was a number 80. So I accompanied them when we went to see it and sure enough it was a 80 with a very low serial number and built in the spring of 1959 before the steel strike. The steel strike cost IH a bunch of production that summer. And the advertising didn't start in the farm paper until March 1960. There was a bunch of problems with the pitman drive and ours had to be welded that summer. Then the dealer called my uncles in March 1960 and told him there was an update package of parts to replace the defective pitman rod rocker assembly. His service man came to our place that spring and replaced all the defective parts with the updated parts. That was the good part about IH. If there was a problem they always had a recall and fixed them all. This recall was concurrent with the 460, 560, and 660 final drive modifications and they also fixed all of them. To me it must have been an expensive year for recalls.    

I have two sources including one put out by people of this website that state the 151 was introduced in 1957.  I also have a serial number list that starts in 1958.  So you could say mine is a 58' and I would be fine with that.  I was just going by the original ops manual.  Is it possible that you Canadians didn't necessarily get new equipment offerings the same exact time the US did?  I know JD did things up there a little differently.  Also my 151 has the 141 header sickle drive while later 151s used the same drive as the 03 series.   

[Big Bud guy]

7 minutes ago, Loadstar said:

I'm betting that the guys used to working on an engine tucked down underneath the grain pan thought that big V8 up on top of the 510 was a huge improvement in accessibility. This Super 92 ad must have been one of the last ones in the 1963 Country Guide magazine. 

 

Probably true.  But it added noise and heat.  I have been told on the 92 and older combines if there was any major work to be done mechanics just removed the tire and slide the engine out.  On the diesel 510s there was almost not enough room to squeeze that inline Perkins in there.  Part of the engine is almost inside the cab with you and it is the nosiest dam thing I have ever run. 

[George 2]

1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I have two sources including one put out by people of this website that state the 151 was introduced in 1957.  I also have a serial number list that starts in 1958.  So you could say mine is a 58' and I would be fine with that.  I was just going by the original ops manual.  Is it possible that you Canadians didn't necessarily get new equipment offerings the same exact time the US did?  I know JD did things up there a little differently.  Also my 151 has the 141 header sickle drive while later 151s used the same drive as the 03 series.   

What you say makes sense and agrees with the info I have. The 101 first saw production in 1957, the 151 first production in mid 1958 and the 181 may also have been first produced in mid to late 1958. That would explain the IH Farmers Catalog saying they were both new for 1959. And that is exactly like they did with the 80 being first produced in 1959 but not advertised until 1960. Good discussion.

In the east Massey and Cockshutt to some extent dominated the SP combine market back then. I have never seen a 181 in Ontario and only one 151 model. There were quite a few 101's however. Quite a lot of 91's also. It wasn't until the 403 and 503 came out that IH became popular. There were a substantial number of 403's sold as soon as people started growing grain corn and they found out the small 105 and 315's didn't have the muscle to cut it.  A lot of people didn't like the noisy operators platform of the MF 410 and 510 (like as you said). And Cockshutt had been reorganized by that time. Finally by the time the 715 came out the 715 was immensely popular here. So was the 915.   

  

[Loadstar]

2 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Probably true.  But it added noise and heat.  I have been told on the 92 and older combines if there was any major work to be done mechanics just removed the tire and slide the engine out.  On the diesel 510s there was almost not enough room to squeeze that inline Perkins in there.  Part of the engine is almost inside the cab with you and it is the nosiest dam thing I have ever run. 

 

Yes, I remember helping my dad pull the engine out of the Massey Harris 60 after removing the right side tire. I don't recall the 510 V8 being noisy, probably got  little heat through the firewall. I could have opened the window and put my hand on the carburetor it was so close. Luckily it had a very good and trouble free air conditioning system on it. I did have the Perkins 354 in the 550 which was really just a 510 with some different sheet metal. That engine was a tight fit. I know I wanted to replace a leaking valve cover gasket one time and found I could not remove the cover without lifting the cab. I gave up on the idea. The 550 is long gone but I've still got the new gasket if anybody needs one :-)

Back in 1975 I would say that these 7 series Masseys were the most popular combine in the area. 

 

[dale560]

Dad always talks about years ago pulling the engines and grinding valves on those 92 masseys. Or putting rebuilt engines in them. The 760 Massey ad is nice. If you think about it the 760s were the first combines capable of running 25 and 30 ft headers. It would be comparable to the combines of today  being able to handle 2 times as much as older combines. A 750 should have been able to combine what older combines at that time did.

[Big Bud guy]

44 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Dad always talks about years ago pulling the engines and grinding valves on those 92 masseys. Or putting rebuilt engines in them. The 760 Massey ad is nice. If you think about it the 760s were the first combines capable of running 25 and 30 ft headers. It would be comparable to the combines of today  being able to handle 2 times as much as older combines. A 750 should have been able to combine what older combines at that time did.

Thing is though Massey didn't offer a 30ft header on the 760 to begin with.   I don't think it was until the late 70s before they did, about the time the JD 20 series came out with the 30ft header option.  I have brochure on the 750/760 that is newer then Loadstar's ad and biggest header it shows is 24ft.  Mine shows a red cab but black interior.  I'm assuming what came after that was the grey cab with the fancy controls.  What I think is crazy is Massey offered a 24ft header on the 510 later on.  Even in our low yields that would be a stretch.  We had a grey cab 760 with a 24ft header bought new in 1979.  We went with the 24ft header instead of the 30ft because of our hills or so we thought.  Funny part is we are now running 40ft headers in those hills.   Anyways it was the worst combine we ever had and it turned us green after 30+ years of Massey. 

[Big Bud guy]

1 hour ago, Loadstar said:

Yes, I remember helping my dad pull the engine out of the Massey Harris 60 after removing the right side tire. I don't recall the 510 V8 being noisy, probably got  little heat through the firewall. I could have opened the window and put my hand on the carburetor it was so close. Luckily it had a very good and trouble free air conditioning system on it. I did have the Perkins 354 in the 550 which was really just a 510 with some different sheet metal. That engine was a tight fit. I know I wanted to replace a leaking valve cover gasket one time and found I could not remove the cover without lifting the cab. I gave up on the idea. The 550 is long gone but I've still got the new gasket if anybody needs one :-)

Back in 1975 I would say that these 7 series Masseys were the most popular combine in the area. 

 

We had one neighboring rancher with a 550.  That was the only one in the area because by the time those came out they were too small for new combine buyers and the rest made do with 510s since they were made all the way up to the late 70s.   The AC on our 76' 510 shook the whole combine.  Plus that 350 never ran right the few years we had it.  Traded it and the 63' 510 off for the 760 mid harvest.  It had the 354 perkins and cut more grain then both 510s and did it on half the fuel.  Course that was only when it was not broke down. 

[U-C]

5 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Never have seen that before.  Using the engine has counter balance to the mounted plow.  That's what I assume anyway. 

The engine and the gearbox would tip to lower or raise the implements, the idea came before hydraulics. SIMAR made there first prototype around 1936  

[U-C]

Hurlimann T 14 000 Hydrostatt only 14 tractors of this model were ever made. The Tractor had a Mercedes Diesel with 150 HP and a Sauer Hydro. Normally Hurlimann used there own engines but not for this model though.