Old Binder Guy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ray, That storm at the ranch was a three day intense storm with snowflakes the size of Loonies, but happened in April. We had a nasty, nasty winter in 1978 as well. This snow was over the fences along our lane to the county road. The winter dragged on and on. I about trashed my TD-18A. I had to go through the transmission and finals afterward and broke some bushings in the tracks. Our kids couldn't ride the county road (about 4 miles) portion of their bus route for 47 days, before we and the County equipment could finally meet up near Glengarry. Before that, a neighbor and teacher in Lewistown, would take my snowmobile and our two kids to meet the bus at the highway. Ray54, Kevin and Ralph, You are correct about Monarch preceding a sale to Allis-Chalmers. I believe it came after the stock market crash of 1929 sometime? This is one of my friend's 75 Monarch. This is their 50 Monarch crawler and I believe most all Monarch crawlers steered with a steering wheel. This is a very early Monarch crawler. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevingweq Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ray , L-star, Gary , Love all those Monarch crawler pix , But this is the Monarch tractor I mistakenly thought the Ford / Monarch sign was advertising. They used a small Ford engine similar to what was used in the Anglia Car and here is the wiki link http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Monarch_Tractor_Co. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19292/lot/302/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Bill Cockshutt stated they initially paired up with A-C for a short period but there were issues and they later teamed up with Oliver until they built their own tractors. Thanks for looking that up George. I was too lazy to get the book out. Cockshutt didn't build their own tractor until 1946 when they made the model 30. Soon to be followed by the 20, 40, and 50. Known for their innovative "true live power take off". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George 2 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I knew it was in the book but I had a conversation with Bill himself 10 years ago about what happened with A-C. It all amounted to a bunch of disagreements and Cockshutt not getting what they wanted out of the deal. That conversation was something I listened well to and remembered. After all, it is not everyday you get to talk to an elderly gentleman who actually lived and breathed what was in the book and was a member of the family. Some of the interesting stories he had were about some of the collecting he did out in your part of Canada. One of the stories is in the book and he told me about another one not in the book where they repo'd a tractor and they had to go through a slough to get to it. They waited until the slough froze over in the winter and rescued it. I forget the details now but they had some problems getting it started but they eventually drove it out under it's own power. Apparently the owner lived in town and didn't know it was repossessed until they notified him. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to him. That was at the Ilderton antique machinery show just outside London, ON. I saw him once a few years later at the Chesley, ON show but never again. I think if he is still living he would be 86 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George 2 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ralph: By the way, there some more segments to the stuff I sent you a while back in the works. When I called him last weekend he didn't have time to talk. He said they were busy writing up some more of the history of the Massey combines. So maybe by this summer or fall it will be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I knew it was in the book but I had a conversation with Bill himself 10 years ago about what happened with A-C. It all amounted to a bunch of disagreements and Cockshutt not getting what they wanted out of the deal. George, thats interesting that you got to talk with Bill Cockshutt. It can be a confusing story trying to follow the history of Cockshutt tractors. This ad from 1938 shows the Cockshutt Hart Parr model 90 tractor. The Oliver corporation had bought the Hart Parr line of tractors in the early thirties. Cockshutt still wasn't building their own tractors so they made a deal with Oliver to supply the tractors. So Hart Parr tractors were being sold as either Oliver tractors in green paint or Cockshutt tractors in red paint. It happened again in the 1960s. Although by that time I expect the Hart Parr name was just a memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 This page from a Canadian Farm Equipment magazine in 1948 makes the announcement of the end of the contract between Oliver and Cockshutt re: tractors. Cockshutt had already started building their own completely new model 30 tractor and it would soon be followed by the 20, 40 and 50 tractors. They built and sold a lot of them. This 1949 ad for Oliver tractors features a ""Goodison" Oliver tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
664 CDN Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Just to change the subject from the Cockshutt, Oliver to IH. I came across this add for the new Super 70 in a Canadian Farming 1984. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Binder Guy Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ray and Ralph, I just wanted to see if I could turn it back to Oliver (Hart-Parr)? Then turn it back to International Harvester again? I think I did it?? Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Just to change the subject from the Cockshutt, Oliver to IH. I came across this add for the new Super 70 in a Canadian Farming 1984. Ray Ray, that was a good looking "anteater" as they called them out here. I never saw that model, just a few of the earlier ones. I wanted to buy a used one but was advised against it. I don't even have an ad for that particular IH model but here is one that is probably even less well known. One of the first Wagner four wheel drives from back in 1954. 25 mph road gear would get you where you were going in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark (EC,IN) Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 This page from a Canadian Farm Equipment magazine in 1948 makes the announcement of the end of the contract between Oliver and Cockshutt re: tractors. Cockshutt had already started building their own completely new model 30 tractor and it would soon be followed by the 20, 40 and 50 tractors. They built and sold a lot of them. This 1949 ad for Oliver tractors features a ""Goodison" Oliver tractor. What is the deal with these Goodison Olivers... Is Goodison just the company that made the independent PTO? I never saw an Oliver with Goodison across the front......is it a Canadian thing maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 This page from a Canadian Farm Equipment magazine in 1948 makes the announcement of the end of the contract between Oliver and Cockshutt re: tractors. Cockshutt had already started building their own completely new model 30 tractor and it would soon be followed by the 20, 40 and 50 tractors. They built and sold a lot of them. This 1949 ad for Oliver tractors features a ""Goodison" Oliver tractor. What is the deal with these Goodison Olivers... Is Goodison just the company that made the independent PTO? I never saw an Oliver with Goodison across the front......is it a Canadian thing maybe? All I know of Goodison is what I read on this page http://www.olivertractors.ca/goodison_connection_information.htm It was a threshing machine company in Canada. They did not build tractors but had them supplied by other companies including Oliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 For what they charge for their product today you might think the fertilizer companies could afford to give away a pickup truck too. Back in 1966 Elephant Brand fertilizer was offering not just one but four new Chev pickup trucks. Just fill out the form at your friendly Elephant brand fertilizer dealer and you might be the lucky winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevingweq Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Love those old " Chebbie " Trucks Very nice ad Did you ever hear of anyone winning a new truck ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George 2 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Oliver did not have sufficient sales penetration in Ontario to justify it's own sales office. Instead they appointed Goodison of Sarnia, ON to represent them. Goodison also put their decal on the tractors sold in Ontario in the 1940's and 1950's. That all changed in 1962 when Cockshutt got absorbed by White-Oliver. Oliver was also represented by the Co-0p Federee in Quebec for the same lack of sales penetration reason. The Co-op did not put any decals other than the Oliver supplied decals on the tractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Love those old " Chebbie " Trucks Very nice ad Did you ever hear of anyone winning a new truck ?? Kevin,I don't know but can only assume some lucky farmers won those new Chevy pickups. George thanks for the follow up information on Goodison Oliver. I would think that an Oliver tractor with that Goodson name on the front might be a collectors item nowadays. Wonder if any survived? Here is a few year's newer Oliver from 1956. A "furrow's eye view" of the Super 88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think I have posted this ad yet. A little Case 300 tractor from about 1956. I find them a rather strange looking design compared to rest of the Case tractors of the day. Never did see any around here. The slightly bigger (and different looking) 400 was pretty popular though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George 2 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 You know, there was some cross fertilization between IH and Oliver in the late 1930's, 1940's and 1950's. Both companies were headquartered in Chicago and the design offices were there. From time to time as workloads varied IH engineers ended up at Oliver and vice versa. Take a look at the F15 and F22 prototype tractor styling and the Oliver styling of the 66, 77, 88 series later in the 1940's. They were very close in styling. In the case of IH this enclosed styling cost too much and Raymond Lowey was called in to cheapen it down to more affordable tin work of the H and M series. Later Oliver was first with an independent PTO similar to what IH developed a few years later. The 300 and 400 Farmalls also had styling more like the Super 77 and 88. Finally IH copied Oliver with the Multi Range six cylinder engines in the 460, 560, and 660. These are just a few of the similarities and there are lots more design similarities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 You know, there was some cross fertilization between IH and Oliver in the late 1930's, 1940's and 1950's. Both companies were headquartered in Chicago and the design offices were there. From time to time as workloads varied IH engineers ended up at Oliver and vice versa. Take a look at the F15 and F22 prototype tractor styling and the Oliver styling of the 66, 77, 88 series later in the 1940's. They were very close in styling. In the case of IH this enclosed styling cost too much and Raymond Lowey was called in to cheapen it down to more affordable tin work of the H and M series. Later Oliver was first with an independent PTO similar to what IH developed a few years later. The 300 and 400 Farmalls also had styling more like the Super 77 and 88. Finally IH copied Oliver with the Multi Range six cylinder engines in the 460, 560, and 660. These are just a few of the similarities and there are lots more design similarities. George, according my information it was Cockshutt that had the first live pto on a field tractor on their model 30 introduced in 1946. Oliver was likely pretty close too but my book says Cockshutt was first. I think I already posted an ad featuring their "lpto" a while back but here is another ad from 1949 for Timken bearings featuring the Cockshutt 30 tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I didn't really think of this one as a "vintage" ad but can it really be 35 years old? 3 IH machines that I could make good use of . Little tractor with the front end loader for bale handling and a 3 point hitch for the snow blower. That "anteater" tractor on the manure spreader ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George 2 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Ralph: In the overall scheme of things, Cockshutt had the first production LPTO in 1946. Oliver had theirs in 1947 - 1948. What I was referring to is that in comparison to IH, Oliver was first with a Live PTO. IH did not have one until 1954. Sorry for any confusion about the semantics I used. Bear in mind that experimental LPTOs existed in the early 1920's. There was even one reference to one back around 1910. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadstar Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Ralph: In the overall scheme of things, Cockshutt had the first production LPTO in 1946. Oliver had theirs in 1947 - 1948. What I was referring to is that in comparison to IH, Oliver was first with a Live PTO. IH did not have one until 1954. Sorry for any confusion about the semantics I used. Bear in mind that experimental LPTOs existed in the early 1920's. There was even one reference to one back around 1910. Sorry George, I guess I mis understood (or was half asleep) your comments about live pto. I guess it took a few years of running pto equipment without the live feature before operators realized there had to be a better way. Just imagine putting a heavy swath through a pull type combine and needing to slow down but as soon as you step on the clutch the combine drive stops. Not acceptable. Same with this hay baler picking up a heavy swath. Of course this guy with his 77 Oliver will have no problem that way. From a 1952 ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDairy Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I didn't really think of this one as a "vintage" ad but can it really be 35 years old? 3 IH machines that I could make good use of . Little tractor with the front end loader for bale handling and a 3 point hitch for the snow blower. That "anteater" tractor on the manure spreader ...They are touting Mount-o-matic loaders but that's not a mount O on that 484 is it ? Odd they show a base model spreader in a ad. Seems like it is generally a fully loaded unit in ads. Nice ad loadstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
664 CDN Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Troy, if you reread the add they are touting the strength of the box beam loaders with an added line saying the mount O matic loaders are easy to mount & remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi 1455 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 SAME Tiger 105 Export Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.