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All-Fuel, Distillate, Kerosene


Michael Halsall

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Confused by terminology-

In all the American tractor books I have read there are references to different types of tractor fuels.

"All Fuel" which I need a clarification on.

"Distillate" which I assume is what we in Australia is called "Power Kerosene"

The term "distillate" in Australia means DIESEL FUEL!

"Kerosene" which I assume means the zero octane fuel used in pre-war tractors.

The confuse every-one the British talk about "TVO" (Tractor Vaporising Oil)

and "Lamp Oil".

The above, I think are TVO = Power Kerosene and Lamp Oil = Kerosene.

As Mark Twain said "English speakers are DIVIDED by a common language"!

Regards from Michael Halsall

Australia

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I can't help you too much on the terminology, except that "all fuel" I think is a term used by John Deere to describe their tractors that would run on kerosene, distillate, etc. In other words, fuels other than gasoline.

Al

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All fuel IS a Deer term. The two banger will run on Gas (Petrol) Distillet(power Kero)and Kerosene.Also a blend of Diesel and gas and a blend of anything else that will "pop" . ( I tried moonshine once too with mixed resaults :blush::wacko:

Mr, Halsall I bielieve you have the confusion under the control :wacko:

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IH did not make all fuel tractors. They made 3 engines, not counting diesels--gasoline, kerosene, and distillate. The kerosene and distillate engines were started on gas with closed shutters on the radiator, run on gas until warm and then switched to the other fuel. Pistons and I think heads were different on each engine. Each engine performed best on the fuel for which it was designed. All would run on gas, but since the compression ratios were lower on the kero and dist engines, along with the carbs being jetted slightly different, you could not get the same HP from a kero or dist engine than you could get from a pure gas engine. Likewise a kero or dist engine run on gas, so I have heard, will not perform on gasoline as well as it will kerosene or distillate. You can still buy kerosene $$$, distillate, at least in the formulation the 40's tractors used is no longer available.

As to my mention of 3 engines, I forgot LP gas, which did not appear from the factory until the Super M began production. Major production of kero and dist engines ended after WWII, although the option was kept though the 450.

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I know this is a little off topic but maybe someone knows. One of the "M" tractors I purchased this fall has a small round auxiliary fuel tank. I have heard that this means it is a distillate model. Is this true? There is not much left of this tractor and I was going to use it for parts (I also purchased a gas "M") and drove it home after some work. If it is a distillate model is it worth messing with? It has no wheels and it is still sitting out in the field where I found both of them. Click on link to see pic if interested.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n282/sp.../Farmall/M6.jpg

Thanks!

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I know this is a little off topic but maybe someone knows. One of the "M" tractors I purchased this fall has a small round auxiliary fuel tank. I have heard that this means it is a distillate model. Is this true? There is not much left of this tractor and I was going to use it for parts (I also purchased a gas "M") and drove it home after some work. If it is a distillate model is it worth messing with? It has no wheels and it is still sitting out in the field where I found both of them. Click on link to see pic if interested.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n282/sp.../Farmall/M6.jpg

Thanks!

yep, u have a dual fuel M, check and see if the vaporising manifold is still there

head was lower compression as well

as power kero was a lot cheaper than petrol down here, dual fuel was the norm for tractors of that ear, i run my W6 on a blend of 50% lighting kerosene & 50% unleaded petrol, this is the same cetane rating of power kero

power kerosene is still around, just that its called Jet A1. i find it simpler to mix my own rather than buy a drum of jet A1

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Around here I think the feds would start to wounder if you were buying A-1 jet and didn't have a plane. I have even heard of some guys running JD all fuels on used engine oil! I still wounder what the engine and carb look like if this is true.

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Michael Halsall - re>>terminology.......different types of tractor fuels<<

One more fuel that we had/used that you didn't mention was "tractor gas".

Also (later messages), some of the F-20s had a little crank on the right side of the tank used for controlling the shutters forward of the radiator for some fuels.

We also used "stove gas"/"white gas" for the kitchen stove. Little (manual) pump to pressurize.

best, randy

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IH did not make all fuel tractors. They made 3 engines, not counting diesels--gasoline, kerosene, and distillate. The kerosene and distillate engines were started on gas with closed shutters on the radiator, run on gas until warm and then switched to the other fuel. Pistons and I think heads were different on each engine. Each engine performed best on the fuel for which it was designed. All would run on gas, but since the compression ratios were lower on the kero and dist engines, along with the carbs being jetted slightly different, you could not get the same HP from a kero or dist engine than you could get from a pure gas engine. Likewise a kero or dist engine run on gas, so I have heard, will not perform on gasoline as well as it will kerosene or distillate. You can still buy kerosene $$$, distillate, at least in the formulation the 40's tractors used is no longer available.

As to my mention of 3 engines, I forgot LP gas, which did not appear from the factory until the Super M began production. Major production of kero and dist engines ended after WWII, although the option was kept though the 450.

The pistons and heads were the same between distillate and kerosene engines, at least on the Super A. I would assume this was true for the rest of the letter series.

My Super A came equipped to run on distillate/kerosene but it was never operated this way. Granddaddy always used gas, and when rebuild time came, the Fire Craters went in. B)

Al

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The heads and sleeve sets were different for gas, distillate, and kerosene in the H and M according to the parts books, as you say there was no difference in kerosene or distillate for the C113 in the A, etc.

IH did not make all fuel tractors. They made 3 engines, not counting diesels--gasoline, kerosene, and distillate. The kerosene and distillate engines were started on gas with closed shutters on the radiator, run on gas until warm and then switched to the other fuel. Pistons and I think heads were different on each engine. Each engine performed best on the fuel for which it was designed. All would run on gas, but since the compression ratios were lower on the kero and dist engines, along with the carbs being jetted slightly different, you could not get the same HP from a kero or dist engine than you could get from a pure gas engine. Likewise a kero or dist engine run on gas, so I have heard, will not perform on gasoline as well as it will kerosene or distillate. You can still buy kerosene $$$, distillate, at least in the formulation the 40's tractors used is no longer available.

As to my mention of 3 engines, I forgot LP gas, which did not appear from the factory until the Super M began production. Major production of kero and dist engines ended after WWII, although the option was kept though the 450.

The pistons and heads were the same between distillate and kerosene engines, at least on the Super A. I would assume this was true for the rest of the letter series.

My Super A came equipped to run on distillate/kerosene but it was never operated this way. Granddaddy always used gas, and when rebuild time came, the Fire Craters went in. B)

Al

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Around here I think the feds would start to wounder if you were buying A-1 jet and didn't have a plane. I have even heard of some guys running JD all fuels on used engine oil! I still wounder what the engine and carb look like if this is true.

dont think they would worry 2 much

now if you where buying ammonium nitrate & diesel & didnt have a farm, then i suspect that u mite just arouse the curiosity of the feds, just a little :blush:

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Hi, as already brought up 'all fuel ' is a Deere discription for a vapouring tractor.

My Farmall tractors are kerosene tractors, not distillate engines. They have the x3 suffix on the s/n plate.

I think the distillate and kero pistons are the same, but I know the heads and valves are different.

When I wanted new valves for my H , I couldn't get the correct kerosene valves, buy could get distillate valves. If I remember there is around 1/8 inch difference. Got the longer ones to fit, just have to play around to get enough clearance.

As for a fuel for these tractors I use kerosene that I use in the house boiler.

I'am to young to remember TVO well, can remember my uncle having a TVO Nuffield tractor, and can also remember it being used.

I'am not sure of the make up that was in TVO. Probaly as you say something nearer 'power kerosene'.

I guy once told me you could run your tractor on the same fuel as he puts in his helicopter.That would be jet a1 fuel I guess.

If you put TVO into Google you get several recipes for making it , doesn't smell like the original stuff though.

Alex.

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Somewhat off-topic, but I bought a space heater that is designed to run on Jet 1A, so I figured that it should be cheaper than using diesel, until I went to a FSO, and was told the price was $4.15 per gallon! (November 06). So red diesel it is, and it does a damn good job.

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Thanks for the information that helps. I do not have a farm. I do come from a farming background and just wanted to restore an old Farmall "M". Actually I was looking for an old farm truck when I found the "M" The P.O. had a neighbor with a loader roll the "M" off its side for me and I can see the other side that was in the dirt. The carburetor? is there and looks like the one on the gas "M" externally. Money is a little tight and I am wondering if it's worth fixing or might be worth something to a person who already has a distillate tractor.

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I have a multi fuel Mogel 8hp Side shaft hopper cooled engine. The plate says , Gas (natural) Gasoline, distilate , diesel. So I guess it is a 4 fuel engine. Interesting carb. Has about a 1 quart bowl to start the engine on gasoline to warm it up to run on the distilate or diesel. Also injects water from the hopper in to the carb. It is one of less than 300 made, and is #58 in the series, Is a retirement project . Engine is complete down to the auxilery distilate fuel tank . Ignition is via a closely timed mag and a set of points in the head . No spart plug. It was in an old ranch feed house . Friends grandfather was the fellow who brought it to the area, He custom ground feed for local ranchers and homestead farmers. It sat in the stone barn till I bought it @ estate auction.My friend and I used to play with that old engine . It was a challenge to turn it over for a pair of 6 year old kids :>)

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Thanks for the information that helps. I do not have a farm. I do come from a farming background and just wanted to restore an old Farmall "M". Actually I was looking for an old farm truck when I found the "M" The P.O. had a neighbor with a loader roll the "M" off its side for me and I can see the other side that was in the dirt. The carburetor? is there and looks like the one on the gas "M" externally. Money is a little tight and I am wondering if it's worth fixing or might be worth something to a person who already has a distillate tractor.

the carby is the same as the gasoline version, the difference is in the manifold, they have a hotbox, for vaporising they have a large square box type of manifold with a control flap on them, cant recall off what the wording is

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Michael Halsall - re>>terminology.......different types of tractor fuels<<

One more fuel that we had/used that you didn't mention was "tractor gas".

Also (later messages), some of the F-20s had a little crank on the right side of the tank used for controlling the shutters forward of the radiator for some fuels.

We also used "stove gas"/"white gas" for the kitchen stove. Little (manual) pump to pressurize.

best, randy

The first Farmall H, a '41 model, we had was a low compression two fuel tractor. We used Standard Oil "power fuel" in it, starting it on gas from the little tank first,warming it up a little by shutting the shutters by that little crank which was on a plate fastened to the lower part of the steering wheel/light bar support. This shutter linkage wasn't the best, you had to keep it lubed up for it to work easily. And you wanted it to work because in the spring, summer and fall the 'ol H would heat up fast if you were working it at all. In the winter you could sometimes haul out and spread a load of manure without ever having to open the shutters. If you did warm up the H too high you lost the alcohol/water coolant fast and then she got really hot. You switched to power fuel by opening the valve under the big fuel tank and closing the valve uner the little gas tank. You could restart the engine on power fuel if it was still kinda warm, if it didn't "catch quick" you had to drain the carburetor of fuel and refill it on gas to get it to start. There were two oil check petcocks on the pan so you could drain the oil to the lower level to get rid of the diluted oil and then fillup with new oil to the upper level. You just opened the lower petcock and let it drain off then closed it and opened the upper one and filled her up till the oil ran out there. Fun, huh? We did that about every 20 running hours. We used that same "power fuel" in the Rumely Oil Pull and most of the John Deere guys around here used it in their poppers. The last price of it I remember was 8 cents a gallon. Gas without tax was about double that back then. We switch the '41 H to high compression when we overhauled it in 1946, It had noticeably more power then.

My '48 GW John Deere will run on Kerosene....I've tried that, but don't use it because it's gotta be up to 185-190 degrees or it'll just smoke and miss bad. I just use gas...lots of it. Sometme when I run out of other things to do, I'm gonna try to mix diesel or heating oil with gas and see how 'ol John likes that...just for fun. I wouldn't think of trying to run it on used oil or anything with it blended in...that sounds pretty cheap to me. My '51 JD G won't take anything but gas...good gas....it's got a shaved head with 6.5 to 1 compression ratio aluminum pistons in it-among other things. It's got a "little more" power than the low compression '48 GW....a little more than our 44 hp '49 M too. Heh, Heh.

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Hi, as already brought up 'all fuel ' is a Deere discription for a vapouring tractor.

My Farmall tractors are kerosene tractors, not distillate engines. They have the x3 suffix on the s/n plate.

I think the distillate and kero pistons are the same, but I know the heads and valves are different.

When I wanted new valves for my H , I couldn't get the correct kerosene valves, buy could get distillate valves. If I remember there is around 1/8 inch difference. Got the longer ones to fit, just have to play around to get enough clearance.

As for a fuel for these tractors I use kerosene that I use in the house boiler.

I'am to young to remember TVO well, can remember my uncle having a TVO Nuffield tractor, and can also remember it being used.

I'am not sure of the make up that was in TVO. Probaly as you say something nearer 'power kerosene'.

I guy once told me you could run your tractor on the same fuel as he puts in his helicopter.That would be jet a1 fuel I guess.

If you put TVO into Google you get several recipes for making it , doesn't smell like the original stuff though.

Alex.A gas engine will not run on Jet A,A1,or Jet B,JP5 etc.Maybe that guy had a piston engine helicopter which uses "av-gas"100-115 or 100-130 octane.A tractor will run on that ,but it is hard on gaskets and rubber seals.I have put car gas in a Bell47 helicopter years ago when no av gas was available to get me to the next place which sold the proper stuff,up in Marble Bar in Western Australia.Some diesel engines will run ok on the Jet a,b etc (aviation kerosene)type fuels.Also a turbine engine will run on car gas,diesel ,kero etc ,but not recomended for extended periods.

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Thanks for the information that helps. I do not have a farm. I do come from a farming background and just wanted to restore an old Farmall "M". Actually I was looking for an old farm truck when I found the "M" The P.O. had a neighbor with a loader roll the "M" off its side for me and I can see the other side that was in the dirt. The carburetor? is there and looks like the one on the gas "M" externally. Money is a little tight and I am wondering if it's worth fixing or might be worth something to a person who already has a distillate tractor.

the carby is the same as the gasoline version, the difference is in the manifold, they have a hotbox, for vaporising they have a large square box type of manifold with a control flap on them, cant recall off what the wording is

If I remember right there is a difference in the gasoline and distillate/kerosene carbs.

There will be a little brass #tag on the top left of the carb.

I think the size of the throttle body or something is different, do look the same side by side though.

Can't remember exact without looking through the parts book.

You don't want to let that vaporising manifold go on the scrap pile, I'll always find it a home, alot that get left out fill up with water over time and the 'box' part gets frost cracks in., the heat flap inside also burns away after a while.

Alex.

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