IH Tractors on Montana Farm

[twostepn2001]

17 hours ago, Old Binder Guy said:

You are a very blessed man to have them at this time of your life. Do they live quite a ways away?

The 7 month old lives here with us. The oldest granddaughter are living here until they save enough to get a place of their own. The other three girls live in Rotan, Texas which is about 40 miles from here. And yes l feel very blessed that they are healthy and l am here to be with them. l have no favorites but........the oldest does like tractors and cotton.  😎  These pics were taken in a friend's cotton field not too far from here last year.  l apologize for the green and yeller but there ain't no red cotton strippers around much anymore.

[Old Binder Guy]

I guess most of the photos I have tonight are to do with steam engines? I usually just gather what I think would be of interest here to someone besides me. I would have chosen some others of interest, but I guess I haven't run into them lately. Not as much random posting had been done lately on Facebook. There were more Christmas pictures lately. I'm even going to post one of those pictures from a Chevrolet Dealership in Texas in 1953! Santa Claus is looking at a full size real car in his lap. I think the Ford convertible parked there is a 1951 model?

Somewhere in southern Minnesota is this D9 Caterpillar left derelict. I remember so well when they came out, that I have a hard time realizing this could be true? But I've gotten old, why couldn't the D9 have gotten old?

This is a Rumely GasPull "Universal" tractor seeding in North Dakota.

This photo has been around forever, but I kind of like seeing Brevet Colonel George Armstrong Custer with a big bear he'd gotten in 1874 on this hunting trip. 

This is Custer holding his sporterized Springfield Trapdoor 45-70 rifle. It has some fancy pewter and double set triggers.

Thi

This had to be at least 1936, with an Amoskeag steam pumper fire engine. The Ford "woody" IS a 1936 model.

This is an earlier time for a steam pumper engine. 

This is Minneapolis, Minnesota on a cold winter day when the steam pumper is fighting a fire in the city.

This is a Coldwell steam lawnmower working at the US Capitol in 1903. This unit still exists in a museum!

Teams of horses pulling an unidentified portable steam engine and the threshing machine.

I don't know the brand of this portable steam engine, but I fell in love with that big keg water tank wagon.

This is a picture of  tiny little 6 hp Russell steam engine. I was fascinated by the guy sitting on top of the engine. 

Irrigation has been going on for years. This is a 12 hp Case engine irrigating land.

An Aultman-Taylor engine is moving a small church(?) in the country, likely to town? From the looks of the angle of attack that engine is taking, they maybe should have had a second engine tied on? From that wagon parked there, I'm thinking they already are in trouble?

A 110 hp Best steam engine has a wagon on behind loaded with sacks. I don't know if he's coming to town, or heading home?

A 32 hp Case (later 110 hp) plowing and seeding in Canada.

A 32 hp Case with the engineer or a worker on the platform to work on something.

A 32 hp Reeves is pulling a pair of road graders, improving a country road.

This 32 hp Reeves appears to be having a pretty good load of this small saddle tank steam locomotive to pull to a new location.

A 40 hp Gaar Scott engine is pulling a grain binder and two plows. The binder cuts the grown, ripe crop and the plow plow under the stubble. I don't know how well this worked, but it was to save a trip around the field twice. I know one thing, that engine has no trouble whatsoever pulling that light load.

I'm not sure of what these engines are pulling in dry country, but I love that array of engines. (L-R) A 35 hp Minneapolis double cylinder, a 60 hp Case and a 40-140 hp Reeves. 

And last but not least is a 150 hp Russell engine. 

A McCormick-Deering F-30 tractor picking potatoes in North Dakota.

Somebody found a sink hole with their CaseIH combine. That had to be a huge surprise for the operator? I hope he was alright.

And, last but not least is this photo from 10-1/2 years ago at Silver Crick. There are a few IH Tractors on a Montana Farm there.  Gary😉

 

 

 

 

[jeeper61]

Old fashioned wireless 

 

LL Bean 1934

[twostepn2001]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:21 PM, Old Binder Guy said:

An Aultman-Taylor engine is moving a small church(?) in the country, likely to town? From the looks of the angle of attack that engine is taking, they maybe should have had a second engine tied on?

A question from a feller that knows next to nothing about steam tractors. What happens when a steam tractor tries to pull too much? l understand the wheels might spin a bit, but what about after that? There is no clutch to burn out is there?  Does steam start to bypass somehow? This enquiring mind wants to know...... 🤓

[Roger Byrne]

Twostep, I'll give the simple answer to your question.  It will either just spin out as you suggested or if the traction is very good and the engine has reached its power limit, it will stall out . . . just like a gas tractor.  Many steam engines (not all) have a friction type clutch but they are not used as they are on a gas tractor.  The clutch is usually either locked in (over-center) or out and only rarely used the way a clutch is used on a tractor.  On many traction engines when they are used for heavy drawbar work, a pin is inserted into the friction clutch to lock it so it won't slip.   The traction engines that don't have a friction clutch use a "dog" clutch to connect the engine to the power train and it is either in or out of gear.   If the engine spins out or stalls, you just close the throttle.  Now the boiler is a separate issue and that is regulated by the engineers controlling the rate of firing , feed water, fire box draft and other operations.  The boiler also has a safety valve to relieve pressure if it gets too high.  Just remember that the engine and the boiler are two different systems.  The boiler generates and stores the power to be used as needed.  You can steam up the boiler and it can sit there for hours and not do anything until the energy is needed.  The engine is the machinery used to tap that power and put it to use.   

[Old Binder Guy]

1 hour ago, Roger Byrne said:

Twostep, I'll give the simple answer to your question.  It will either just spin out as you suggested or if the traction is very good and the engine has reached its power limit, it will stall out . . . just like a gas tractor.  Many steam engines (not all) have a friction type clutch but they are not used as they are on a gas tractor.  The clutch is usually either locked in (over-center) or out and only rarely used the way a clutch is used on a tractor.  On many traction engines when they are used for heavy drawbar work, a pin is inserted into the clutch to lock it so it won't slip.   The traction engines that don't have a friction clutch use a "dog" clutch to connect the engine to the power train and it is either in or out of gear.   If the engine spins out or stalls, you just close the throttle.  Now the boiler is a separate issue and that is regulated by the engineers controlling the rate of firing , feed water, fire box draft and other operations.  The boiler also has a safety valve to relieve pressure if it gets too high.  Just remember that the engine and the boiler are two different systems.  The boiler generates and stores the power to be used as needed.  You can steam up the boiler and it can sit there for hours and not do anything until the energy is needed.  The engine is the machinery used to tap that power and put it to use.   

Roger, I couldn't have explained that any better than you did. Magnificent. Taking twostepn2001's question one step further. I've never been in the situation this guy is in with the Aultman-Taylor engine and the building, getting stalled on a hill like that. Hopefully someone had some sizable blocks to throw under the rear mover trucks. That would solve the problem I have in my head. But if they weren't prepared to do that, and the engineer (whichever in the heck kind of cap he's wearing... striped or polka dot), the only way I can see of holding it there is holding the steam into the engine. If he closes the throttle, that whole mess is going to try to go backwards. Now he can stop it again by adding steam into the engine. But, that's a heck of a place to decide you need to fire up another steam engine, bring it there and hook in onto the mover trucks as well? Am I hallucinating or dreaming, Roger? I'm just glad I'm not the guy with my hand on the throttle, if it won't keep going up the hill.  Gary😲

[twostepn2001]

23 minutes ago, Old Binder Guy said:

the only way I can see of holding it there is holding the steam into the engine.

So if the engineer had a big supply of water and fuel, he could hold that load on the hill until it eventually ran out? Also another question. Steam trains had air brake systems to hold them on inclines. Was there ever any brakes on steam traction engines? l think l understand how you could use steam to keep one from rolling downhill. But what if you did run out of fuel and/or water? Would it free wheel down the hill?

[Roger Byrne]

IF the engine is stalled there, it can hold in that position with steam pressure as stated above  . . . but I'm sure they would just get busy blocking all the wheels on the building and engine until they they got the extra help they needed.  I see it is hitched to the building off-center, maybe they are waiting for the another steamer or tractor to help.  As far as coasting down the hill, I can't think of any competent steam engineer that would let that happen because there are several ways to control the engine under those conditions. 

As a side note, in my part of the country, where there are long and steep hills, it was common on the really bad ones, to remove the governor belt to prevent the engine from over-speeding so the engineer could control it with the reverse lever and throttle.  If going up the hill, you would go forward but if going down the hill, you had to back down so you can keep water on the crown sheet (top) of the fire box.  The south "Hamilton" hill just a couple miles from me (Gary drove the Autowagon there) was one of those hills that had at least two "run-a-ways" (a Reeves and a Case) because the operator (notice I didn't say engineer) didn't remove the governor belt.   Backing down hills with a steamer is something I've done many times and IF the grade was long enough, I removed the governor belt.  The reason for taking the governor off-line is that if the engine gets above its set top rpm (over speeding), the governor shuts off the steam to the engine.  If the steam is shut off, the engineer can't feed steam to reverse the engine rotation to slow/stop its motion.

Yes, a few traction engines do have mechanical brakes that can be applied.  They are usually bands around the the intermediate or differential gears.  Below is a side view with the back wheel removed of a Russel steam engine with the brake band on the intermediate gear.

[Old Binder Guy]

Roger, I'd just like to add that our 16 hp Russel engine Dad used to have had a brake like in your diagram. I will say, all engines should have had them. I really liked it when backing into the belt or when tightening the belt. You can do those things without brakes, as you know, but it is sure handier with brakes. 

I'm not getting "nit-picky" I don't think? The 16 hp Reeves Highwheeler you spent time on that Art Anderson owned, had what I'd call a dog clutch. Art's Reeves Highwheeler:

The Highwheelers had a genuine "dog" clutch, in Montana terminology. It was lever actuated from the platform.

Our 20 hp Highwheeler even had a friction disk power steering. I've not seen that on any other Highwheeler Reeves engines.

I believe this is what you referred to as a pin clutch that Austin Monk's 40 hp Peerless had. His had two. One for the low speed gear and one for the high speed gearing. It was termed a "road locomotive" with two speeds.

This photo is of Albin Carlberg Jr. turning in one of the two clutch pins on his late father's 32 hp Reeves cross compound Canadian Special at Mt. Pleasant, Iowa. These two engines have what we call pin clutches. Am I mixed up?  

This is a poor example, but the best I could find fast. An over center shoe type clutch on an old M. Rumely engine.

And this was the best photo I could find of our Case wooden shoe clutch, hand operated by lever. Gary😬

 

[Roger Byrne]

No issue Gary, I always called the drive unit on Art's Reeves a "dog" clutch.   To me, traction engines either had a friction type clutch (expanding or tapered shoe) or a direct interlock from the crankshaft to the gearing in the form of a "dog" or "pin".   When I talked about using a pin in a friction type clutch, I was referring to the pin used to keep the friction type clutch from slipping under heavy traction loads like shown on your photo of Monk's Peerless and I always used on Bud's 28HP Minneapolis when we were plowing.   We are both on the same page.

P.S. for Gary: Did you know Harold Stark passed last Friday.  He would have been 100 February 22, 2022

The hole I have circled is where a pin is inserted to lock the flywheel to the friction clutch shoe yoke.

[Old Binder Guy]

4 hours ago, Roger Byrne said:

No issue Gary, I always called the drive unit on Art's Reeves a "dog" clutch.   To me, traction engines either had a friction type clutch (expanding or tapered shoe) or a direct interlock from the crankshaft to the gearing in the form of a "dog" or "pin".   When I talked about using a pin in a friction type clutch, I was referring to the pin used to keep the friction type clutch from slipping under heavy traction loads like shown on your photo of Monk's Peerless and I always used on Bud's 28HP Minneapolis when we were plowing.   We are both on the same page.

P.S. for Gary: Did you know Harold Stark passed last Friday.  He would have been 100 February 22, 2022

The hole I have circled is where a pin is inserted to lock the flywheel to the friction clutch shoe yoke.

Yes, Roger, I remember at Belgrade when they'd drive a pin into the clutch frame from the flywheel on their 22 hp Minneapolis to keep the clutch from slipping when plowing, or pulling. Minneapolis rear, Case front.

And we pinned Austin Monk's 28 hp Minneapolis when plowing with it too. Me and the late Kim Tuttle.

And thanks to you Roger, I knew the US steam icon, Harold I. Stark. He was a neat guy. I met his at Forest City, Iowa when I was there operating the 40 hp Gaar Scott from Moore, Montana; where I graduated from high school. I was posing with it in 1958.

Harold Stark and me posing on the 40 hp Gaar Scott in 2010.

Harold was mesmerized by the Big Forty Gaar Scott.

At 88 years old he was up adjusting or fixing something?

Harold's partner in crime there was Joe Graziana. The two of them were (are) handy rebuilding steam engines. Harold was in demand for working on and fixing steam injectors. I understand his son is continuing that business?

I took this photo of Harold working on the half scale Gaar Scott steam engine he built years ago.

A file photo of Harold with that little engine.

Harold was well known for taking that little engine to steam shows and performing a tug of war with a bunch of kids on a rope. He'd let off and let them pull him a little, then he'd open the throttle a little, stop their progress and take them backwards. 

The steam world is going to miss ol' Harold. What a guy!  Gary😢

 

 

 

 

[jeeper61]

OBG thank you for the tribute to Harold, may he rest in peace.

Never met the man I respect his accomplishments

I under stand he was a racer and car builder too. 

[Delta Dirt]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:21 PM, Old Binder Guy said:

A 32 hp Reeves is pulling a pair of road graders, improving a country road.

 

We could add my Adams "Junior" road grader to the Professor's hitch and turn the road county  into an Interstate in short work.  (Triple Hitch)

May be their 32 hp rated Reeves was a truer hp rating than everyone thought????  I have pulled the little Adams with my Kubota L2850 (28hp) before on a similar dirt field road.

 

 

 

Re-school us on more info on the early HP ratings (nominal, belt, drawbar......).

 

And that's one of my Regulars sitting in the background.  Here is a close up showing the LP conversion that we mentioned several pages back.  We cranked on gas-----switched over to LP:

 

I never ran this tractor after a tornado blew my implement shed away in 1975.  Had a belt drive Lincoln welder mounted on her most of my life time.  Always loved to hear the bark of the little "pot style" muffler (all 28hp ?).   when burning a big rod.

Can remember my dad saying: "don't need to inspect that weld-----I could hear it burning in-----that's the way it is suppose to be done!!!"

For ease of cranking------I switched the welder over to a pto trailer mount and used it mostly on a 9N Ford.  The little Ford was definitely short a few hp vs the "mighty Regular" when burning heavy  rod.

 

DD

 

[Old Binder Guy]

 

Anson asked:

Re-school us on more info on the early HP ratings (nominal, belt, drawbar......).

Anson, I'm going to ask Roger to re-explain the horsepower ratings for a steam engine. But, I do know that steam engines never used "drawbar" horsepower. I believe that came along for gas tractors at the Nebraska tests. My head isn't clear on how boiler horsepower is rated anymore. Rather than screw people up, the young guy, Roger can take your question. 

Thanks Roger! Gary😊

[VacDaddyt]

If you go by the State of MN, it is by the heating surface area of the boiler or how much water can be evaporated in a given length of time🤔.

[Old Binder Guy]

3 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

Which pretty much says what my thinking is about it "in how many pounds of steam that could be produced in a given amount of time".

I still am not certain of the math and equation that figures into "horsepower" anymore. It is heating surface required to heat that water to maintain that horsepower in steam volume.

Brake (flywheel) horsepower is figured with a Prony Brake. The engine (motor) is belted to the prony brake and  braking the mechanism and the pounds of pressure required to hold it there for a given time figures into horsepower. I've never operated an engine on the brake, but I've been on the engine. Warren Bellinger and i had the Smolik Brother's 110 hp Case on a brake at Cedar Falls, Iowa in 1992. It pulled 119 hp. Warren was upset because the engine pulled 120 hp the year before. Gary😉

[Roger Byrne]

Anson, if you want a detailed explanation of the TRUE horsepower developed from a boiler or the TRUE horsepower developed from that steam in a reciprocating piston engine . . . well that gets real deep and requires a ton of specific calculations of each component.   I'm not going to dig into all the reference and code books needed to get into all of that.   Also as stated in comments above, part of the rating of MODERN boilers is the cubic feet of steam that can be produced at a certain pressure in a given amount of time.

The basic rules/formulas were originally started in 1907 and by 1915, the improved American Society Of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) standards were being adopted by most of the boiler manufactures and states for engineer licensing.  It is still used today with many updates/modifications over the last 100+ years and is the basis of all the many laws governing boiler construction and operation.   AS A SIDE NOTE:  The current ASME code consists of 17,000 pages in 31 volumes and contains 600 different types of codes!     Part of the basic code uses 10 square feet of heating surface to equal one Boiler Horsepower.  The heating surface is the area of the boiler that is in direct contact to the heat source, like the fire box and all the boiler tubes.   So if a boiler has 200 square feet of heating surface (typical of a medium size steam traction engine boiler) it would be considered a 20 HP boiler for engineer licensing in most states.   As you can see, this doesn't take into consideration the fire grate area, type of fuel, type of draft, operational pressure and many other factors that would tell you the TRUE amount of power the boiler could produce . . . that's the kind of stuff I'm not going to get into.

Now when it comes to the engine, the TRUE horsepower the engine can produce also has a large number of variable factors.  The basic rule uses the diameter of the piston, the length of stroke, the engine RPM and the effective steam pressure to figure the engine horsepower rating.  Even this basic version gets pretty involved and doesn't get into variable valve timing, compounding, valve porting, exhaust nozzle restriction and a bunch of other factors.

OK . . . probably too much information already so let's get down to how that stuff relates to Steam Traction Engines.  Here are some well known companies that used a double rating giving the boiler and engine horsepowers.    Port Huron 19-65 (19HP boiler with the engine developing 65HP on the belt)  *  Nichols & Shepard 25-85 (25 HP boiler with the engine developing 85HP on the belt)  *  Baker 23-90 (23HP boiler with the engine developing 90HP on the belt)    Now Case used the boiler rating in the earlier years and later changes to just using the belt horsepower rating.  An example of that is the early 32HP Case was later reissued as the 110HP.  Many companies stayed using the boiler horsepower rating.  I used to own a 24HP Minneapolis and when I tested it on a dynamometer at 150PSI, I had no problem getting a sustained 85HP+ at the belt.  I think you can see a bit of a pattern between the boiler rating and the belt horsepower and it's about 3.5 to one.  It should also be noted that when these engine are test on the belt, they often produce more than their rated horsepower.   It should also be noted that before some guys will say this engine could do this better or the various engine were not exactly the same horsepower as the heating surface the boiler they had, these figure are just simplified and what was used during the period they were manufactured.  And to repeat what Gary said before, the smaller number on a traction engine ratings is NOT the drawbar horsepower.  I have never seen a traction engine advertisement that stated the drawbar horsepower of their engines.

[Old Binder Guy]

23 hours ago, Roger Byrne said:

Anson, if you want a detailed explanation of the TRUE horsepower developed from a boiler or the TRUE horsepower developed from that steam in a reciprocating piston engine . . . well that gets real deep and requires a ton of specific calculations of each component.   I'm not going to dig into all the reference and code books needed to get into all of that.   Also as stated in comments above, part of the rating of MODERN boilers is the cubic feet of steam that can be produced at a certain pressure in a given amount of time.

The basic rules/formulas were originally started in 1907 and by 1915, the improved American Society Of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) standards were being adopted by most of the boiler manufactures and states for engineer licensing.  It is still used today with many updates/modifications over the last 100+ years and is the basis of all the many laws governing boiler construction and operation.   AS A SIDE NOTE:  The current ASME code consists of 17,000 pages in 31 volumes and contains 600 different types of codes!     Part of the basic code uses 10 square feet of heating surface to equal one Boiler Horsepower.  The heating surface is the area of the boiler that is in direct contact to the heat source, like the fire box and all the boiler tubes.   So if a boiler has 200 square feet of heating surface (typical of a medium size steam traction engine boiler) it would be considered a 20 HP boiler for engineer licensing in most states.   As you can see, this doesn't take into consideration the fire grate area, type of fuel, type of draft, operational pressure and many other factors that would tell you the TRUE amount of power the boiler could produce . . . that's the kind of stuff I'm not going to get into.

Now when it comes to the engine, the TRUE horsepower the engine can produce also has a large number of variable factors.  The basic rule uses the diameter of the piston, the length of stroke, the engine RPM and the effective steam pressure to figure the engine horsepower rating.  Even this basic version gets pretty involved and doesn't get into variable valve timing, compounding, valve porting, exhaust nozzle restriction and a bunch of other factors.

OK . . . probably too much information already so let's get down to how that stuff relates to Steam Traction Engines.  Here are some well known companies that used a double rating giving the boiler and engine horsepowers.    Port Huron 19-65 (19HP boiler with the engine developing 65HP on the belt)  *  Nichols & Shepard 25-85 (25 HP boiler with the engine developing 85HP on the belt)  *  Baker 23-90 (23HP boiler with the engine developing 90HP on the belt)    Now Case used the boiler rating in the earlier years and later changes to just using the belt horsepower rating.  An example of that is the early 32HP Case was later reissued as the 110HP.  Many companies stayed using the boiler horsepower rating.  I used to own a 24HP Minneapolis and when I tested it on a dynamometer at 150PSI, I had no problem getting a sustained 85HP+ at the belt.  I think you can see a bit of a pattern between the boiler rating and the belt horsepower and it's about 3.5 to one.  It should also be noted that when these engine are test on the belt, they often produce more than their rated horsepower.   It should also be noted that before some guys will say this engine could do this better or the various engine were not exactly the same horsepower as the heating surface the boiler they had, these figure are just simplified and what was used during the period they were manufactured.  And to repeat what Gary said before, the smaller number on a traction engine ratings is NOT the drawbar horsepower.  I have never seen a traction engine advertisement that stated the drawbar horsepower of their engines.

Roger, young man, Thank you so much for your involved post. I followed it to a tee! I so appreciate the time it took you to gather, think through and post that type of information.

I forgot to mention how "Steam Horsepower" originally began. It was very unsophisticated, but is how it began. Before there were many engines to turn the very early threshing machines that were "Hand Fed" and some were beginning to use a drag stacker, the number of horses powering that "carousel" Horse Power, those horses determined the horsepower of the steam engine replacing them. This was a Minneapolis model of the "Dingee Woodbury" carousel patent.

This photo shows the arms the horses were harnessed to.

This little threshing machine is the earliest one I've ran and observed operating, was at the Mehmke Museum about 30 years ago. Bundle's bands were cut by hand by the man hand feeding it. The straw at the right rear is threshed.

I can picture someone with a wooden pitchfork pitching the spent straw away from the back end of the machine in the olden days.

Here are a variety of "horsepower" carousel units powering those early threshing machines. Originally, Steam Engine Horse Power was figured by the number of horses turning a Dingee Woodbury carousel, and the horsepower of the engine replacing those horses. If twelve horses were turning a threshing machine and a steam engine was brought in that would handle the threshing machine... IT WAS a 12 horsepower engine.

I've posted this photo several times in the past. It involves my late steam mentor and great friend, Walter Fred Mehmke on their Highwood, Montana farm. Walter is the baby at right being held by his Grandpa Mehmke.

These are the units ready for transport.

I took this photo at Cedar Falls, Iowa in 1958 of an Aultman-Taylor early hand fed, slat stacker threshing machine that its horsepower unit turned a drive belt and not a shaft drive like the rest of the ones above showed.  Thank YOU again, Roger. Anson, I hope you have steam traction engine horsepower in your head clearly now? 

PS: I do know this 1909 Case engine is 15 steam horsepower turning this McCormick-Deering threshing machine.

PPS: But this is a 1910 45 horsepower Case steam engine. The engine proper (motor) is identical to our 15 horsepower above, with 9" X 10" bore and stroke. The boiler tubes are interchangeable and have the same cubic feet of heating surface there and in the firebox. They will interchange from running gear to running gear. The "smoke box" chamber below the smokestack is a few inches longer on the 45 hp engine. Now anyone reading Roger's and my posts should know all there is to be known about steam horsepower. 

This is a 1913 Case 50 horsepower engine threshing. The 50 utilized taller drive wheels and gearing, gaining power. But it the same "motor" and boiler (with boosted steam pressure) as the 45 horsepower, and the 15 horsepower. Go figure.

This is Abner D. Baker's Prony Brake he built to test his Baker steam engines on, back in the day. He donated it to the National Thresher's Association years ago. The brake band around the spinning drum, (with water/oil coolant inside) with the beam scale measuring the pressure applied to the drum is the principle used to figure horsepower. 

The Prony Brake went back in the early production of steam and gas engine tractors. This is an IHC tractor on a Prony Brake at Winnipeg, Canada, in the early days of those horsepower and efficiency (coal and water usage) trials of the early 20th century's teens.

Likely the most colorful Prony Brake operator of the steam hobby era is this late friend of mine, Amos Rixmann. I took this photo of him at Rollag, Minnesota. He explained everything so greatly. He's watching the scale and has his hand on the crank wheel that tightened the band.

I just wish he hadn't always called me after midnight on work nights! I first met him at the 50th National Thresher's Association show in 1994.

I had to put this photo here. This was the Smolik Brother's 40-140 hp Reeves engine on the Prony Brake at Osage, Iowa August 2007.

That was also the day I met Mr. Roger Byrne, and his 1914 Model T Ford! PS: son Mike is in the cab with the Reeves engine's caretaker, Jim Bodenham and just had returned from plowing. Gary😁

 

 

 

 

 

[Roger Byrne]

Gary isn't that rating increase (45HP to 50HP) do to change Case made when going from 125PSI rated boilers on the earlier versions to the 150PSI rated boilers on the later engines?

[Old Binder Guy]

3 minutes ago, Roger Byrne said:

Gary isn't that rating increase (45HP to 50HP) do to change Case made when going from 125PSI rated boilers on the earlier versions to the 150PSI rated boilers on the later engines?

Yes, Roger, I corrected that omission. Thanks for correcting ME though. The gearing only affected the ability to pull something, over the 45 or 15 hp engines. It had a higher brake horsepower due to the extra 25 pounds of operating pressure. And, 25 pounds on top of the lesser amount makes one heck of a difference. Happy New Year! Gary😉

[Old Binder Guy]

Out of respect for Betty White who passed away today, New Years Eve 2021, take her advice please for tonight. I always enjoyed Betty's acting and her ability to act so naïve. Rest In Peace, Betty.  Gary 😢

[Roger Byrne]

Dag nab it Anson, I sure wish we didn't live 875 miles apart, on opposite sides of the country.  First off, I'm sure we would have a lot more frequent and animated "Blue Smoke" discussions if we could do it face to face.   Another thing . . . I think I'd try to sneak that Adams Leaning Wheel Grader out of your rusty iron refuge some afternoon when you were taking a nap.   I've been looking for a medium size one for years but only find the big 12+' ones that are too big for my old tractors.  I've found several small/mid-sized Russel and Adams graders but none of the Leaning Wheel version.  My Dad used to use Adams Leaning Wheel graders back in the 1920' & 30's to build roads.  He always said the Adam L W grader was the only one that could cut a ditch in hard ground and could build a road faster/better than anything else on the market at that time.  I'm guessing if I put some Yankee greenbacks in your hand that maybe ?? you'd part with it.  Too bad that the transportation cost up to my part of the country would put a kibosh on the deal.  By the way, how wide is that blade . . 8'?  How about a couple photos of the front showing it's patented leaning/steering system?

[Finney]

Something I don't understand, a steam traction engine rated for 50hp can pull 12-15 plows but a tractor rated the same can only pull 3.

[Roger Byrne]

Finney, I'm afraid that a 50HP (belt HP) steam traction engine is not going to pull much more than a 4 bottom plow or maybe a 6 in light soil.  You are going to need something like a 110HP case to pull a 12 bottom plow under most conditions.  If you are referring to that 50HP as the boiler horsepower, other than the NEW 150 Case that was built, there are no traction engines that have a 50HP boiler in this country.  Even the biggest engines like the 40-140 Reeves only has a boiler that would be rated around 40HP.  In reality, there is no comparison with the way tractors are rated today compared to the rating systems from the early years.  After all, my 1919 International 10-20 Titan (10hp drawbar & 20HP belt) can pull a three (14") bottom plow under most conditions and my 1919 Oil Pull 16-30 is rated to pull a four bottom plow.  If you read the old books, they would say it took 3 to 4 HORSES to pull a single 14" plow under most conditions . . . they were talking about real draft horses.  When tractors came out, the drawbar ratings were to show how many REAL HORSES the tractor would replace.

[Old Binder Guy]

19 hours ago, Roger Byrne said:

Gary isn't that rating increase (45HP to 50HP) do to change Case made when going from 125PSI rated boilers on the earlier versions to the 150PSI rated boilers on the later engines?

Roger, You are correct about what happened. I don't think the 1913 50 hp Case was boosted to 150 psi operating pressure yet. I'd explained how the boiler of the 15, the 45 and the 50 were basically identical lap seam boilers, other than the length of the smoke boxes on the 45 & 50 being longer than the 15 hp. The 15 and 45 hp Case engines maximum operating pressure was 130 psi. The first year of the 50 hp was 130 psi also. The cast iron smokestacks went with the lap seam boilers in 1913. 

In 1914, Case put a butt strap boiler under their 50 hp engines, plus a steel smokestack, and that is when they boosted the operating pressure to 150 psi. But that 20 psi on top of the 130 made a difference in its performance too. I have several hours on a 50 hp Case and they are one fine engine. I got to take Austin Monk's 50 hp Case for a spin on his first steam up, along with others.

We had an oops later and Austin had to fire up his 930 Case diesel to pull us out. I couldn't see what my steersman was headed into and he didn't holler soon enough for me to shut the throttle. The front wheel made it by on top of the culvert. But the rear wheel didn't.

This engine of Austin's was actually a 1913 with the lap seam boiler and cast iron smokestack. He traded a junk boiler he had on hand for this pristine 1914 butt strap boiler at the Montana School Of Mines in Butte, America. He had to lengthen the water heater around 4 inches, and had to come up with a cast iron base for a steel smokestack and ring. So, his 1913 became a 1914 Case 50. I bought the old lap seam boiler from Austin and was going to put it under our 15 hp Case. John Schrock talked me out of that transfer and into putting in a new "ogee" mud ring. He then hauled the boiler to Michigan for one of his friends to use on their Case engine. That was about 10 years ago and the last I heard, that boiler was still setting in one spot just like it had at Mike's place at Silver Creek. Gary😉

PS: The Montana Boiler Inspector gave this boiler the original 150 psi for operating pressure. That's "pristine!"