IH Tractors on Montana Farm

[Delta Dirt]

41 minutes ago, HMR said:

Roger Byrne:  man, you are like a computer!  Type in the question and immediately out comes the correct answer!  Thank you also for the 

HMR----

For that reason I sometimes refer to Roger as the "University"  and Gary as the "Professor".  

We are lucky to have access to their wealth of knowledge.

Keep your pictures coming.

 

 

DD

 

[Roger Byrne]

Yes HMR, that is a 110HP Case or the earlier version originally sold as a 32HP.  I have spent time running several Case steamers (not a 110 version) and know a little about the Case steam engine line but Gary is the authority when it comes to Case steamers and has spent many hours running them . . . including the 110's.  I'm sure he will fill you in with a lot more information when he sees your post. 

[HMR]

Roger Byrne:  man, you are like a computer!  Type in the question and immediately out comes the correct answer!  Thank you also for the additional info and the difference between the two models of the Avery.

Here's the next one from Daddy's old pics:

 

Is this the Case 110 steamer that he always talked about?  That is he at the controls custom threshing up in North Dakota.

 

Thanks, Roger, for the confirmation of my grandpa's Case 110 steamer.  My dad said it came on the Great Northern Railroad into tiny Yale, SD, along with a threshing machine.

OK, here's another one of Daddy's pics:

 

His handwriting on the back says the pic was taken near Strasburg, ND.  He was up there custom threshing.

[Old Binder Guy]

On 10/24/2021 at 10:44 AM, HMR said:

Roger Byrne:  man, you are like a computer!  Type in the question and immediately out comes the correct answer!  Thank you also for the additional info and the difference between the two models of the Avery.

Here's the next one from Daddy's old pics:

Is this the Case 110 steamer that he always talked about?  That is he at the controls custom threshing up in North Dakota.

HMR, Roger didn't feed you a load of hay. Your dad's is the 32 hp Case engine they originally came out with in 1907. I'm unable to tell which year of 32 hp engine it is, but I'm going to guess it a 1908 or 1909 model because it has a round top steam dome, the later 32's had.

This was the "First" 12"X12" Case and it is a farce. When I was a boy, I heard old Case engine men state, "The first 110 Case engines had "flat strap spokes in their rear wheels." The best of them swore that. I never knew where that B.rown S.ugar came from? Then one night at our Kalispell-Whitefish-Columbia Falls old iron club meeting, I had an open pushrod Briggs & Stratton kick starter and a single cylinder, two cycle Maytag washing machine engine in the back of my pickup. I'd just traded for them at our show a few weeks before. I'd brought them to ask some questions of the gas engine guys there. A "friend" (hard bargain driver) came up to me inside and showed me the 1906 J.I. Case catalog he'd just traded for. This "friend" went home with my two little gas engines and I went home with this 1906 Case Catalog with my "Proof" for the flat strap spokes in the rear wheels of a 110 hp Case.

I took it and sat down and started to look through it. Lo and behold, there was a photo of the new 12"X12" engine they had just brought out that would soon replace the fabled 150 hp Case that was a gearing disaster for Case. This was the catalog cut they'd put in, as they obviously didn't have a new engraving made yet of the new 32 hp Case. THIS IS A 150 HP CASE ROAD LOCOMOTIVE. A LATE ONE, of the four built.
!

This is the 150 hp Road Locomotive from the 1907 Case catalog. They were still trying to sell their huge boilers to sawmills or industrial sites. The Road Locomotive (150) was a disaster for Case, as far as traction engines go. It's parked alongside a 9 hp Case tandem compound engine, their "littlest one."

I called the 9 hp engine above, Case's "littlest one." Earlier, they did build a littler one. This is an 8 hp Case center crank, Trunk Compound engine threshing in Montana. They also made the simple engine (non compound) model of this same engine. It was a "6 hp." I've never seen a photo anywhere of a 6 hp Case traction engine, but they did build them and advertised them on the covers of their early center crank catalogs.

Now... The 32 hp Case engine that would replace the 150 hp Road Locomotive in the Case engine lineup. This engine is Case #18,122, the first 32 hp Case "Sample" built. It had round rear spokes in the driver wheels and less of them used than the next ones had. It was not shown in any Case catalogs. 

I'm guessing this was the second 32 hp Case built. It is shown in the 1907 catalog. This is actually the first cut of a 32 hp Case in their catalogs. The first ones had the "three hole" type of crank disk like the 150 hp Road Locomotive had.

I think this 32 hp Case is from the 1908 Catalog? It has a round top steam dome on the boiler.

This is the 1909 Catalog's cut of the 32 hp Case engines.

This is Case "suits" on this postcard, pulling John Deere plows in Kansas. The "mis-colored postcard shows an early 32 hp Case being tried out plowing.

This is a postcard JI Case put out for their customers to admire.

This is the cover of my John Deere plow catalog. It shows a 32 hp Case pulling their plows in Kansas.

This is also the cover from my John Deere plow catalog.

My late steam friend and mentor, Walter Fred Mehmke owned this 1907 32 hp Case between Great Falls and Belt, Montana. He bought it in 1920 from Briggs Implement in Great Falls. It had been rebuilt from stem to stern, even with a new Judson governor, like the later engines used. He broke the farmland on his immense grain farm east of Great Falls with this engine. This is the last 32 hp "short smokebox" Case extant.

In the later years, his son Carl had restored this engine and Walter's later purchased 110 hp Case. Carl and Martha Mehmke posed for my camera and black & white film at one of Carl's "Annual Mehmke Plow Days." The 32 hp and 110 hp Case engines, restored, are their backdrop.

This is the 1907 32 hp Case hitched to a 12-bottom John Deere plow at an annual plow day.

This was me in the cab of the 32 hp Case. I had a bit of pride that out of the multitude of licensed steam engineers present, he chose me and son Mike to operate the engine his dad broke their farmland with. Carl was somewhat fussy about his engines and understandably so.

The 110 hp designation was given this engine in 1910. This is my friend Don' Bradley's 1910 hp Case #24,151 at Forsyth, Montana. They still had a lap-seam (not butt-strap as the later 110's had) boiler barrel, but it was extended out. This makes the easiest way of telling a 32 hp from a 110 hp. I'm sure there were a few holdovers ca. 1909-10 that disputed that. They now had a Judson governor, but Don's 110 had its governor replaced with an earlier Waters Governor. (I'd tried to get Carl Mehmke and Don Bradley to trade governors. They sort of talked about it, but it never happened. That would have made a more correct looking engine of Carl's 32 and Don's 110.) Incidentally, Don's 110 hp Case is a consecutive number to the 110 hp Case at Mt. Pleasant, Iowa, that was once owned by my late friend Justin J. Hingtgen of LaMotte, Iowa.

This is the 110 hp Case at Mt. Pleasant, Iowa. This photo shows the triple rivet lap seam barrel boiler. I apologize for not having the serial number of this engine handy. It is either one before, or one after Don's above.

I'd mentioned the 150 hp Case Road Locomotive above and This was the original catalog cut for it in (I believe?) the 1904 Case catalog. John Loeffelmacher, the designer is standing at right behind the front wheel of this engine, #14,666. This engine originally had round spokes in the rear wheels. 

This is the first 150 hp Case Road Locomotive at the factory, #14,666, pulling smaller Case engines up a hill. Note it now has a front water tank and flat strap spokes in the wheels.

A repeat post here, this shows #14,666 with changed flat strap spokes in the rear wheels.

Two smart @$$es from Montana (me and son Mike) pose like the John Loeffelmacher cut of the first 150 hp Case Road Locomotive September 7, 2018. But my friend Kory Anderson built THIS #14,666 from $cratch in seven figures.

Kory sent me this huge autographed, framed photograph of his 150 hp Case he pulls 44-bottoms of John Deere Plows with.

And last, but not least, HMR, I played with your photo a little. Not much, but a little. I know you asked what time it was, and I told you how to build a clock. It's just my nature. Our youngest daughter says, "Dad is a little bit 'Rainman'!"  Gary😁

 

 

[Old Binder Guy]

1 hour ago, HMR said:

Roger Byrne:  man, you are like a computer!  Type in the question and immediately out comes the correct answer!  Thank you also for the additional info and the difference between the two models of the Avery.

Here's the next one from Daddy's old pics:

 

Is this the Case 110 steamer that he always talked about?  That is he at the controls custom threshing up in North Dakota.

 

Thanks, Roger, for the confirmation of my grandpa's Case 110 steamer.  My dad said it came on the Great Northern Railroad into tiny Yale, SD, along with a threshing machine.

OK, here's another one of Daddy's pics:

 

His handwriting on the back says the pic was taken near Strasburg, ND.  He was up there custom threshing.

That is him on his 30-60 Aultman Taylor gas tractor again, HMR. My grandpa had one just like it, below.

My Grandpa earlier had this 1910 Aultman 30-60 gas tractor #47. It is shown pulling grain sacks to market. Gary😁

 

[HMR]

Old Binder Guy, thanks a million for your reply.  Roger said you were the go-to man for steamers; he's right!  I appreciate the depth of your reply as well as all the pics.  Wasn't that Case 150 at Andover?

Another of Daddy's pics:  He's standing in front of the tractor.  Beadle County, SD

[Roger Byrne]

HMR, it's a little hard to say for sure what make of tractor your Dad is standing in front of.   It looks like it could be a IHC 15-30 Titan, also known as a "Flaming Four".  If you could enlarge the center of that photo, maybe I can give you a better answer. 

[jeeper61]

Gets kind of grainy I can't even make a guess  

[Old Binder Guy]

1 hour ago, Roger Byrne said:

HMR, it's a little hard to say for sure what make of tractor your Dad is standing in front of.   It looks like it could be a IHC 15-30 Titan, also known as a "Flaming Four".  If you could enlarge the center of that photo, maybe I can give you a better answer. 

Roger, that would have been my guess as well. But like you say, it's not real clear in the center. Gary😉

[Old Binder Guy]

3 hours ago, HMR said:

Old Binder Guy, thanks a million for your reply.  Roger said you were the go-to man for steamers; he's right!  I appreciate the depth of your reply as well as all the pics.  Wasn't that Case 150 at Andover?

Another of Daddy's pics:  He's standing in front of the tractor.  Beadle County, SD

HMR, I agree with Roger that this is a Flaming Four 15-30 IHC Titan. My dad had one also. And yes, the 150 hp Case of Kory Anderson's lives at Andover, South Dakota. Son Mike and I were there for the introduction of it to the world, September 7, 2018.

I included a photo of me, Kory Anderson and likely the longest serving Case steam engineer in the USA, Chady Atteberry, of Blackwell, Oklahoma.

Gary😉

[HMR]

Roger and Gary, many thanks for your identifications of these tractors.  I agree, it's an IHC Titan.  I'm looking through Wendel's book and it sure resembles his pictures of 8-16 Titans, but bigger.  Here's another pic of the same threshing outfit, and you can just make out the old IHC logo on the front.  My uncle and my dad are standing in the center.  The rest of the bundle pitchers are neighbors and hired men.

 

I had never heard of "the flaming four."  You fellas are good!

[Roger Byrne]

HMR, these are photos of a 15-30 Titan also known as a "Flaming Four".  The engine design was similar to the 10-20 Titan engine but was a four cylinder version.  They also used a chain final drive and had a two speed transmission like the 10-20 Titan.  The 15-30 used a water pump, radiator and fan for cooling instead of the 10-20's plain water tank.  I've added a video of one owned by the late friend of mine (Glen Westphal) who pasted away this spring from Covid . . . he is the guy cranking and operating the tractor in the first part of the video. 

 

[jeeper61]

The front end certainly looks the same 

[HMR]

Great!  I'll label this pic as a Titan 15-30.  Thanks again to the "University" and "the Professor!"

Now what do we have here?  a steamer powering a corn shredder, blowing the fodder right into the haymow on my great uncle's farm one mile south of Grandpa and Daddy's farm in Beadle County, SD.  This beautiful big barn was torn down not too many years ago.

[twostepn2001]

HMR you are really fortunate to have such a photographic history about your family. Who took the pictures? A family member?

[jeeper61]

TD-40 on the company magazine 

[Roger Byrne]

HMR, the steamer in the photo is an "Bob-Tailed" Case with a tender trailer and with the large barrel size, my guess it's a 75 or early 80 . . . OBG will know for sure.  Gary has a tender like that for his Case and he can fill you in on more details of the outfit.

[HMR]

twosteppin2001:  I don't know who took the photos.  They were in a cardboard box I inherited from Daddy.  I see you have a 560 LP.  In the late 50s and early 60s central SD was full of  them, many of them sold by Schmidt Implement in Willow Lake, SD.  When the 806s and 706s came out in 1964, the lpg versions burned valves so badly that most farmers switched to Diesel.  I have an IH 650 lpg, a remnant of a bygone era!  Incidentally, the antique tractor club in Fredericksburg TX has an IH 650 lpg that was willed to them.  A few years ago I had the privilege of driving it on their annual Bluebonnet Tractor Ride.  It has the foot clutch; mine has the hand clutch.  We spend winters in Kerrville camped on the Guadalupe River.

[HMR]

Roger, I am again indebted to you for identifying these old tractors, both gas and steam.  Why were they called "bob-tailed?"

Here are a few more of Daddy and his IH 15-30 he bought in 1929.  He always called it a 22-36.  It did everything on the farm except cultivate corn and make hay.  One pic shows it on a 10' IHC power binder,

[HMR]

Is this the same Avery that I posted earlier?  This is my dad with a wrench in his hand.

[HMR]

Guys, I'm just about done with my old pics  A few more:  My two aunts are in the bunker.  I don't recognize the operator.

My dad and uncle binding grain with 4 horse teams.

 

Pouring out the smoke!

Threshing in 1944 with Grandpa's 1940 Farmall M.  I was 5 years old at the time, and I still can hear the big M's governor open up when the bundle pitchers forked in the wheat bundles.  I also recall how the loose pins in the drawbar would sing as the M worked hard on the belt.  My dad is wearing the straw hat with the wide band in the front.

[Old Binder Guy]

8 hours ago, HMR said:

Great!  I'll label this pic as a Titan 15-30.  Thanks again to the "University" and "the Professor!"

Now what do we have here?  a steamer powering a corn shredder, blowing the fodder right into the haymow on my great uncle's farm one mile south of Grandpa and Daddy's farm in Beadle County, SD.  This beautiful big barn was torn down not too many years ago.

HMR, since this Case engine and tender, Barn Threshing, has a Waters governor, I'm going to call it a 25 hp. The smokebox looks short. If it were appearing longer, I'd call it a 75 hp, which is what the 25 hp Case became in 1910. I can tell more by the steering wheel of these, but the gentleman is sitting in the way of it. I'm also thinking this might be the same Case you posted below this one, that had the contractor's bunkers. It appears they removed them and added the steerable two wheel tender in its place? Gary😁

[Fred B]

Seems like 1929 was the first year for the 22-36,  but they kept calling it the 15-30, because it had a good reputation.

[Old Binder Guy]

4 hours ago, HMR said:

Roger, I am again indebted to you for identifying these old tractors, both gas and steam.  Why were they called "bob-tailed?"

Here are a few more of Daddy and his IH 15-30 he bought in 1929.  He always called it a 22-36.  It did everything on the farm except cultivate corn and make hay.  One pic shows it on a 10' IHC power binder,

HMR, our family had 15-30 AND 22-36 McCormick-Deering tractors. They were basically the same tractor in many ways. I'm not smart enough to describe the differences though. Maybe an RPM boost and some other "tweaks?" Thanks for posting the photos you do! You've been a shot in the arm lately for this poor ol' thread!

The difference between a "Bob Tail" Case engine and one with Contractor's Bunkers.

This is a 25 hp Case with a factory "Bob-Tail" platform and water tank setup. Notice the "grouters" on this engine are opposite of your photo below this one. This one had gear wear on one side of the gearing teeth, so they drive traded wheels from side to side to put wear on the "new" side of the bull gears.

This is the 25 hp Case "Bob-tail" Roger mentioned. I can't really tell for positive, But I think this is the same Case engine your dad is on with his straw hat? I'd bet the water tank started leaking bad and they took the bunkers off, creating a "Bob-tail" engine then added that steerable tender? The tools boxes don't look right for a factory "Bob-tail" engine, in my humble opinion. In that photo the  25 hp Case had "Contractor's Bunkers."

This was me on Father's Day in June with our 15 hp Case "Bob-tail" engine, the same vintage of your Dad's 25 hp. This is the tool boxes it came with from the factory, and that is the Case steerable tender that holds water in the bottom and fuel on top. 

This was the 25 hp Case with the "Contractor's Bunkers" in which your dad is in the straw hat. I'm betting the water tank under the fuel bunkers that stick out behind the drive wheels was cut off, making the one above harvesting corn with the steerable tender is one in the same engine? I could be wrong? If they had two 25 hp Case engines, one with the steerable tender, and one with the Contractor's bunkers, then I'd be the one full of B.rown S.ugar!

This is a friend's 45 hp Case with the brand new Contractor's Bunkers they made for it. It gives you a little better idea of what Roger was talking about when he called the first photo harvesting corn, "a bobtail."    Gary😉

[Old Binder Guy]

HMR, I'd talked about the length of smoke boxes. The "smoke box" is the area of the boiler barrel below the smokestack. The 25 hp your dad was affiliated with had the "short smokebox" Case used up until late in 1909. This engine below is a bob-tail engine with the short smoke box, AND it has a flat steering wheel. Any Case with the flat steering wheel is definitely the older type of engine rated by "nominal horsepower" i.e., 25 hp. Please don't ask me to explain "nominal horsepower" because I'd have to charge a "nominal fee." (whatever that is?)

Now this is a "crack engine" and NO, it doesn't smoke crack. It has the dished steering wheel and the short smokebox. It is very likely a 1909 engine when they were using up the old short smoke box boilers they had in the yard. If you look very hard at the side of this smoke box, it has rectangular brass and black tag that is barely visible. That tag would tell us if it is rated a 25 hp OR a 75 hp Case. That is the only sure way to tell one of these "crack engines" in the crack between 25 and 75 horsepower.

This 75 hp Case bob-tail engine belongs to a good friend of mine here in Montana. This is a 1910 engine. It has the LONG smoke box, the area of the boiler barrel below the smokestack and ahead of the rivet row around the barrel. This 1910 is unusual in that it has the steam dome back beside the rear of the cylinder. It also has the straight grouters on the drive wheels.

This 1910 75 hp Case that our son Mike is at the throttle with Lanceine Barnes-Zeigler at the Barnes Steam and Power Show at Belgrade, Montana decades ago, plowing. Notice this one also has the long smoke box, but it also has the steam dome forward of the cylinder, and it has the later style "V" grouters. It also has the contractor's bunkers.

 I honestly am trying to show or demonstrate the differences in the Case 75 hp engines in photos. I'm not trying to confuse you HMR!  Gary😁