Service manuals for newer vehicles???

[acem]

Where/how do you get service manual information for newer vehicles?

I have always purchased factory service manuals, troubleshooting guides, wiring diagrams, etc for my vehicles when I started having to work on the. I'm a bit stuck in the past so I can still get them used and/or pdf. 

However, in my discussions with people who work on newer vehicles (less than 20 years old), they appear not to be available in printed form. Most everything is from a subscription. Subscriptions work out good for shops using the information on a continuous  basis.

But what does a person who maintains their personal vehicles do???

This thought came up for me while I am repairing the engine/transmission wiring harnesses on my 93 D250 12V Cummins. It is a very simple harness compared to modern vehicles but is still difficult to figure out without the detailed wiring diagrams in the factory service manual.

I can't imagine doing this job on a modern vehicle without wiring diagrams.

Is there a way around the subscriptions?

 

[jeeper61]

Helm publishes a lot of OEM manuals but they are pricey

I usually look on E-bay for used one before I invest in new  

 https://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[dale560]

24 minutes ago, acem said:

Where/how do you get service manual information for newer vehicles?

I have always purchased factory service manuals, troubleshooting guides, wiring diagrams, etc for my vehicles when I started having to work on the. I'm a bit stuck in the past so I can still get them used and/or pdf. 

However, in my discussions with people who work on newer vehicles (less than 20 years old), they appear not to be available in printed form. Most everything is from a subscription. Subscriptions work out good for shops using the information on a continuous  basis.

But what does a person who maintains their personal vehicles do???

This thought came up for me while I am repairing the engine/transmission wiring harnesses on my 93 D250 12V Cummins. It is a very simple harness compared to modern vehicles but is still difficult to figure out without the detailed wiring diagrams in the factory service manual.

I can't imagine doing this job on a modern vehicle without wiring diagrams.

Is there a way around the subscriptions?

 

All data  or other subscription .or mfg subscription. For a 93 dodge eBay for a set of manuals. I bought a set for my Monte Carlo and am working on a set for 2013 Silverado. These are actual set of gm manuals. For new vehicles you need the subscription for programming any module so you just need buck up and pay it. Since 2019 or so you can’t access the Ram diagnostics without a subscription. You can read trouble codes but you can’t access the behind the scenes values to trouble shoot. Even gm has gotten smart only approved  aftermarket pass through for major programming are allowed. If you use a cheap clone they lock your account. They only way to unlock is politely call and apologize. 
There is so much to repairing modern vehicles that it truly demands high paid professionals. Even machinery runs on can bus networks the last 15 years. It is fun to watch the young guys doing videos on the loss of module coms. I also love to learn the new stuff. I am lucky enough to have been around to work on the early wd9 diesels to the latest electronic stuff. Although I am somewhat fallen off the last 7 or 8 years but still keep up with advancements. Went from fixing generators and magnetos to full on coil on plug stuff. I love learning the advancing technology.

[dale560]

A side note to this I think diamond reo is back as a truck mfg. they build just heavy duty vocational trucks now. They are equipped with a in dash screen to access the preloaded service manual for that truck. Trouble codes , harness diagrams and other stuff is at the fingertips ready to access.

[New Englander]

Alldata.com

is where I go. Get a single vehicle subscription. They’re for one month minimum, fairly inexpensive, and totally necessary for today’s vehicles. I do print out wire diagrams for what I’ve had problems just in case they reappear.

 

[dale560]

5 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Alldata.com

is where I go. Get a single vehicle subscription. They’re for one month minimum, fairly inexpensive, and totally necessary for today’s vehicles. I do print out wire diagrams for what I’ve had problems just in case they reappear.

 

They have good diagrams and repair instructions.

 But when checked against the factory manual the factory manual if available is so much better.

[dale560]

A side note it is truly amazing watching some of the smart dedicated guys on the web. They have the hard to fix diagnostic stuff down to science. Capturing waveforms and testing components. The best is some of the guys can gain access to the can bus communication in the dexawhatever language. They have the 01 line of messages decoded and can tell you what network is saying and what isn’t working. You need a higher dollar scanner for that code.

[lotsaIHCs]

The brand I worked on last published paper manuals in about 2008 or so. Then they were available on DVD for a few years but have been online only since then.

[dale560]

1 hour ago, lotsaIHCs said:

The brand I worked on last published paper manuals in about 2008 or so. Then they were available on DVD for a few years but have been online only since then.

Most items now. You don’t even get operator manual. Just a basic paper with model serial number and QR code for manual.

this is for the little chemical dose pumps and stuff we use in water treatment.

[vtfireman85]

I have no problem getting service manuals for pre-1960 vehicles, and most of them don’t have any computer junk on them to fail. 

[lotsaIHCs]

For one thing the manual for a modern car would be thousands of pages. When our manufacturer quit publishing them they were coming in separate volumes for different systems. I have hundreds of volumes of Mitchell, Motor and Chilton manuals from the 30s through the mid 90s. The best of the aftermarket manuals I have are the Mitchell ones. Much more comprehensive than motor and Chilton isn't even close.

[560Dennis]

what I do is go the public library and look at reference Mitchel’s manuals or the their on line repair data . Forgot the name of it. 

[lotsaIHCs]

46 minutes ago, 560Dennis said:

what I do is go the public library and look at reference Mitchel’s manuals or the their on line repair data . Forgot the name of it. 

Used to be Mitchell On Demand, I think it still is. Snap On bought part of Mitchell in the late 90s and put out their own version called Snap On Shop Key. Pretty much the same thing as Mitchell On Demand.

 

[New Englander]

13 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

For one thing the manual for a modern car would be thousands of pages. When our manufacturer quit publishing them they were coming in separate volumes for different systems. I have hundreds of volumes of Mitchell, Motor and Chilton manuals from the 30s through the mid 90s. The best of the aftermarket manuals I have are the Mitchell ones. Much more comprehensive than motor and Chilton isn't even close.

‘Zactly! Last factory manuals I bought were for’90 something GMC and it was 5 volumes. Today, with everything computer controlled on various data busses it would easily be double that. No longer do you activate a switch and it makes a direct connection to whatever you wanted to do but no, it makes a request to a controller that checks with a bunch of other controllers to see if you’re allowed to turn it on! CAN buss or LIN buss mostly. It’s nice as long as it’s all working 😉.

[Diesel Doctor]

17 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

I have no problem getting service manuals for pre-1960 vehicles, and most of them don’t have any computer junk on them to fail. 

My perfect vehicle will be a 1970's GM one ton with a 4-53 Detroit engine.

No computer, nothing.

Just raw horsepower and a sound to die for.

 

[dale560]

18 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

My perfect vehicle will be a 1970's GM one ton with a 4-53 Detroit engine.

No computer, nothing.

Just raw horsepower and a sound to die for.

 

My truck sales buddy did that in the late 70s either a 79 or 80 Chevy 1 ton dually. He ordered it with a 350 had a custom bed installed took it to the Detroit engine dealer in minot nd. He installed a 4 cyl /53 into it with factory parts from the c50 /60 truck series. The problem was gear ratios were wrong the engine worked but wide open with low ratios or no power with high speed rears. A modern overdrive trans would help. He had a gm manual 4 speed. The Detroit went bad after not a lot of miles so they rebuilt a 454 and installed it.  He was jockeying grain trucks and jd 20 series back and had a 1000 head of feeder cattle on pasture plus over winter. He had a 30 ft cattle trailer and a triple dual machinery trailer he pulled in the nd, mn ,sd area.

[Gearclash]

1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said:

My perfect vehicle will be a 1970's GM one ton with a 4-53 Detroit engine.

No computer, nothing.

Just raw horsepower and a sound to die for.

 

You might laugh but my repower choice would lean toward an air cooled Deutz.  Real easy on fuel and stone ax simple.  My problem with any of the 53 or 71 Detroits is the total lack of low end power.  They need to get wound up and then get hit with the load rather than trying to drag themselves up with a load on them already. 

[dale560]

42 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

You might laugh but my repower choice would lean toward an air cooled Deutz.  Real easy on fuel and stone ax simple.  My problem with any of the 53 or 71 Detroits is the total lack of low end power.  They need to get wound up and then get hit with the load rather than trying to drag themselves up with a load on them already. 

There was a Perkins out of a 510 Massey in a Chevy driving around the area but a neat and not to bad on power was a 3208 in a 72 ,3/4 ton with Allison trans . A case tractor fanatic that did feedlot cleaning had done it. Made the fenders and grill flip up also like a medium truck. I believe the cat and Perkins were available in gpm trucks. The Perkins maybe overseas. I believe the duets was an option also in the late 70s.