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560 Farmall with factory turbocharger


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2 hours ago, New Englander said:

My thought too yet when some start criticizing the old 2 cylinders the comment often includes the stupid hand clutch statement. The firing order of the 2 cylinders makes for the sound just like the firing order of a Harley makes for their sound.

The 2 cylinder crank throws are 180 degrees apart. What you hear is two quick pops followed by 540 degrees of silence - coasting. My Commando 2 cylinder has both pistons on the same throw but the firing 360 out, which makes for an even sound but a balancing nightmare. The Harley sound is sort of like the Deere's caused by the cylinders firing 315 degrees apart followed by a 405 coast.

The Norton's vibration got so pronounced when they increased the displacement from 650 in the Atlas to 750 and finally 828 cc that the Commando engine is mounted in isolastic mounts. It's a great handling and smooth bike but the Japs did better with naturally smooth engines that didn't leak They also weren't saddled with labor problems so the British motorcycle industry was beaten by the Japanese. Deere was smart enough to abandon the ancient design and get onboard with IH and others using an inline multi cylinder engine as they'd pushed two to the max with the 830.

  Deere's decision making in regards to the New Generation of tractors was far more complex.  The 2 cylinders for JD were the highest profit margin product in the entire JD system.  The mantra for the 4010 in part was a cost structure very similar to a model 70.  When JD ended the 2 cylinders the 4010 (and 3010) continued the high profit margin which gave them an advantage over the competition.  

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47 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  Can't imagine people sticking their hands and arms into the throat of a corn picker but it happened.  A neighbor from many years ago got too close to a belt driving an ensilage cutter.  He was lucky he did not lose anything and had the use of both arms but not perfect in the right hand and arm.  

Is that a case of sticking their hands and arms into the throat of a corn picker or did they try to pull stalks out of a plugged picker and it started rotating faster than they could let go and got pulled in.  I believe they were at a safe distance had they not left it engaged and made contact with the corn 

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The first tractor my dad drove was a B JD at the age of 6 running the pulley system in the hay mow among other things. They also had an A, but he never drove that one because by the time he was strong enough to run the clutch on the A they moved on to an M and never looked back. Listening to some stories from other guys it makes me wonder if that's why some of these old farmers bought Bs was so the young children could help. 

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1 minute ago, hillman said:

Is that a case of sticking their hands and arms into the throat of a corn picker or did they try to pull stalks out of a plugged picker and it started rotating faster than they could let go and got pulled in.  I believe they were at a safe distance had they not left it engaged and made contact with the corn 

  The trouble always started with a running picker.  This was constantly impressed on kids who took operator safety training in 4H as a preteen.  

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4 minutes ago, hillman said:

Is that a case of sticking their hands and arms into the throat of a corn picker or did they try to pull stalks out of a plugged picker and it started rotating faster than they could let go and got pulled in.  I believe they were at a safe distance had they not left it engaged and made contact with the corn 

My FIL lost his left arm and leg cleaning out a corn picker at the age of 18.  First it got his arm and when he spun around to try to get out it got ahold of his leg. I never asked specifics but I assume they got mangled enough that they were amputated vs pulled clean off. Hes 6'5 and I'd say at least 400 pounds now so he has a helluva time trying to get around. He's had a knee and hip replacement on his "good" leg and almost died on the operating table during the hip replacement because it knocked loose a blood clot. He recently retired after farming 150 acres while running loader at the local gravel pit for 40 years

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14 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  Deere's decision making in regards to the New Generation of tractors was far more complex.  The 2 cylinders for JD were the highest profit margin product in the entire JD system.  

It was for the above reason.  Some guys wanted to keep the 2 cylinders because of the profitability and some wanted to move on to a modern design.  Fortunately the CEO leaned towards the latter. Let’s not forget JD had been making conventional tractors starting with the L series going up through the M-430.  The fact they only had 2 upright cylinders instead of 4 doesn’t change that. 

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4 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

It was for the above reason.  Some guys wanted to keep the 2 cylinders because of the profitability and some wanted to move on to a modern design.  Fortunately the CEO leaned towards the latter. Let’s not forget JD had been making conventional tractors starting with the L series going up through the M-430.  The fact they only had 2 upright cylinders instead of 4 doesn’t change that. 

  Even the advocates for the 2 cylinder at JD knew there were design limitations in the 2 cylinder in terms of increasing HP.  That front mounted cultivators and corn pickers and even loaders would be impractical with a wider engine such as what was used on the 80.  When the engineers proved they could build an entirely new tractor at the cost of a 70 diesel there were very few stubborn JD personnel left to drag their feet on a new vision.  

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4 hours ago, New Englander said:

Backing with a JD hand clutch is best done with a foot. Yep, look at the bottom of the long clutch handle on many and you'll see that they're shiny from using a foot to feather the clutch while backing.

For sure the Deere hand clutch is not very good for backing. If you try to feather it by hand the inertia of your body tends to make it grab as the tractor begins to move. The clutch has to be adjusted to take a good snap to engage to work well. Feathering it going forward is easier due to the opposite inertia.

There's no question it's not the best for backing but we're talking about a feature last made 65 years ago! It would have been difficult at best to adapt a foot clutch to the horizontal engine design that Deere held on to for too long while designing their new generation.

The cyclone reference is due to Deere's testing of combustion chamber design finding that inducing lots of swirl of the charge made for more efficient combustion/fuel economy. The later head design incorporates it.

For running a loader I think any gear shift tractor is at a disadvantage for material handling. Shuttle or hydro two pedal and it's all one movement, no stop, declutch, shift, then back, repeat.

I learned to use my knee on the clutch lever.

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9 minutes ago, Mark (EC,IN) said:

I learned to use my knee on the clutch lever.

ive done the same backing up and i am sure there are guys out there that got creative and did a lot of cool things with home made/fabricated levers for their feet, its not as easy backing things up but i still back our disk into the barn with the b - it makes you a much better backer upper when you have to get it right before you run out of arm strength!

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1 minute ago, Big Bud guy said:

If I’m not mistaken the 730s built in Argentina had foot clutches.  Wonder why someone like M&W didn’t make a foot clutch attachment for 2 cylinders? 

This is a thread from NAT about one of them:

 

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=597748&DisplayType=flat&setCookie=1

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  I think that it helped that innovations in automobiles did not become wide spread until the mid-1950's in terms of expectations in tractors.  I don't think that JD or IH could have put off new designs until the 1960's if the average farmer was driving a car or pick up truck during the late 1940's which had power steering, power brakes, and automatic transmission.  It helped JD and IH that Oliver and Case were not on the cutting edge of technology with the 1800 and 930 respectively.  

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20 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  I think that it helped that innovations in automobiles did not become wide spread until the mid-1950's in terms of expectations in tractors.  I don't think that JD or IH could have put off new designs until the 1960''s if the average farmer was driving a car or pick up truck during the late 1940's which had power steering, power brakes, and automatic transmission.  It helped JD and IH that Oliver and Case were not on the cutting edge of technology with the 1800 and 930 respectively.  

The auto industry is what led JD down the road to the Duplex carburation  starting in the Number series.  That innovation was a game changer for making the spark ignition 2 cylinders more fuel efficient and run better.

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18 hours ago, Mark (EC,IN) said:

I took a fast ride down a hill backward on an MF35 tractor,  I was trying to push a CIH 1020 head on an Unverferth header cart in the barn with a front hitch.  I was on cement but backed onto a grass hill trying to get straightened up .......  that was when I found out how heavy a 1020 header was.

I had a little bend in the wagon tongue (we jackknifed on the way down)  but nothing else was hurt.

I guess I was lucky

you were very lucky

 This is the bolster with one half broken away where guys make front hitches, No one was hurt but the tractor rolled. Maybe due the rear entry the driver jumped off. I didn't ask that question

DSCI2098.JPG

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8 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

ive done the same backing up and i am sure there are guys out there that got creative and did a lot of cool things with home made/fabricated levers for their feet, its not as easy backing things up but i still back our disk into the barn with the b - it makes you a much better backer upper when you have to get it right before you run out of arm strength!

Exactly, I like your thinking. I know backing wagons up a barn bridge either inches leeway to back it to the elevator or to get them in the barn teaches you to get it right the first time.No second chances after the dirt is dug up and slippery.I even could back them up with a pickup truck,4wd F250.It made you think about angles,push,etc. You had to keep the tongue straight as possible and the truck uphill.If you got the wagon down hill and the tongue off to the side you're toast.

I haven't done it in so long I am sure there are plenty of people that could do it better. But also I can't turn around as easy as I could as a teenager. Getting old is a b***h

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21 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

JD started offering it on the 420 in the 50s. One thing about a Waterloo 2 cylinder hand clutch that hasn’t been said is how much easier and faster they are to adjust and replace vs a conventional clutch

I have a 620 that is just used with a York rake and rototiller, occasionally with an offset flail mower. Anyway, rototilling yesterday and the clutch needed adjustment, all of 15 minutes.

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2 hours ago, New Englander said:

I have a 620 that is just used with a York rake and rototiller, occasionally with an offset flail mower. Anyway, rototilling yesterday and the clutch needed adjustment, all of 15 minutes.

You can adjust a clutch and ta in 15 minutes or less

 

 

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On 6/17/2024 at 8:05 AM, Big Bud guy said:

JD started offering it on the 420 in the 50s. One thing about a Waterloo 2 cylinder hand clutch that hasn’t been said is how much easier and faster they are to adjust and replace vs a conventional clutch

How often do they need to be changed on those oscillators

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1 hour ago, hillman said:

You can adjust a clutch and ta in 15 minutes or less

 

 

You can also replace the clutch in all of 20 minutes if you hustle. Adjusting it you're already more than halfway there to changing it.

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'modern' conveniences weren't that common in the early 60 on automobiles.

Few of the 60s pickups I have been around had power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, etc.Those were luxury items not necessary on a pickup but might be found on the big family car. Mom's early 60s Chrysler might have had power steering and power brakes. However her 68 Plymouth fury only had power steering with std brakes. The AC worked great even in the hot Arkansas summer.

Most of the 60s pickups I was around were straight 6 (even 3/4 and 1 ton), manually transmission (mostly 3 on the tree), no power steering or brakes, no AC and had a white cab.

IH and the other tractor companies were somewhat complacent in the 50s because the AG market was profitable. No need to rock the boat.

IH wasn't focused on JD in the 40s because Ford had always been their competition. By 1960 JD certainly had their attention.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

 Let’s not forget JD had been making conventional tractors starting with the L series going up through the M-430.  The fact they only had 2 upright cylinders instead of 4 doesn’t change that. 

To say they were conventional is the same as saying a cyclops is normal 😂

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