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John Deere 4020 sales vs All International 706, 806 & 1206 series sales.


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22 minutes ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

Yea they lost their hearing running something that sounds a helluva lot better than a 2 cylinder JD. You aren't gonna change my opinion on them. You say you don't care for tractor pulling. Well a lot of people on here do including me. Guess what, I could t care less what your opinion is so why you coming after me about mine? 

I try not to compare pulling and farming. It's apples and oranges these days. 

Totally lost my hearing on pulling tractors as well as an 806 with a DT407.... 2290 CASE (504 with a straight pipe is life changing music) and various others. 

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3 minutes ago, searcyfarms said:

lets see - i didnt say anything about a 407 or a 358 or a 310 or a 361 so does that mean i dont think they are any good?

the only thing i said was the 282 sips fuel but got rid of both my 560s cause i just didnt like the power they gave w/out running them WOT - i could get more umph out of a 281

i dont care for the sound of harleys either but i didnt say anything about them so does that mean they are junk?

i like the idea/thot of different technology and i didnt say anything about 2stroke detroits and all the racquet they make maybe that is why were hard of hearing?

id take a 2 stroke dirt bike over a 4 stroke most days just because i like the rippppppppp they have

its likely a matter of taste in many cases - do you like blondes or brunettes ? would you turn down one or the other because of a or b?

you can put green, red, orange, yellow, white, gray, black, blue paint on it and give me all the ones you fellas dont want and even the ones i left out cause i didnt state that color

I LOVE TRACTORS!!!!

I'll take the 2150 red ones lol

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4 minutes ago, F-301066460puller said:

I try not to compare pulling and farming. It's apples and oranges these days. 

Totally lost my hearing on pulling tractors as well as an 806 with a DT407.... 2290 CASE (504 with a straight pipe is life changing music) and various others. 

The straight pipe goes on the 806 for pulling season but I use hearing protection on the drive (yes I drive my pulling tractors) and whenever else I feel I need it

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8 minutes ago, F-301066460puller said:

I'll take the 2150 red ones lol

i will indian leg wrestle ya over those or maybe we can split them i already have a couple 2150s and i will let you have the 560s and 460s

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6 minutes ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

The straight pipe goes on the 806 for pulling season but I use hearing protection on the drive (yes I drive my pulling tractors) and whenever else I feel I need it

Hearing protect on the track does not work for me. Gotta hear what's going on.

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1 minute ago, searcyfarms said:

i will indian leg wrestle ya over those or maybe we can split them i already have a couple 2150s and i will let you have the 560s and 460s

I got chicken legs but they are long maybe ill risk it lol

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1 hour ago, 766 Man said:

  Same bloody tractor?  The 560 and 656 had the D282 for the diesel option.  The 666 and early 686 had the D312.  Why the switch if the D282 was as good as you say it was?  

Show me where I said that the 312 is a bad engine. I’m still waiting. 

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The D282 was a good engine. It was a very good engine when introduced but by the 70s it was dated.

The D310 was a Great engine.  I don't really understand why they were so good but they lasted a really long time.  I expect the D312 and D358 were designed and built during the Apex of German reliability. 

What-cha say about hearing loss???   My tractors don't need no stinking mufflers!!! Huh?  What-cha say?

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6 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Yes but when did IH actually start designing the 06 series with the intent of production.  1953 is the year JD put together a team to start work on the NG tractors.  But they had toyed around with the idea of building multi cylinder conventional tractors before that even building a mock-up.

 

I don’t know how widespread the 560 failures were.  Just reading Ken Updikes book makes it sound like an epidemic.  Hundreds of tractors at all these tents because there was so many to update, sales dropping from over 20,000 to 5,000 in one year and so on.  I talked to an Iowa farmer when I was looking for a Farmall 240.  According to him the only 560s that tore out rear ends was the guys trying to pull 5 bottom plows.  

At least 1950 if not prior. John McCaffrey chose to direct profits from sales to endeavors not related to furthering the continuance of the core business of his company which turned out to be a fool's errand. As a result, the tractor concept was delayed until 1963. Same aspect with the Sychro Tri Six transmission and it's cousin the power shift destined for the New Farmall for 1985 by a guy IH hired away from Caterpillar. Huge sums of then borrowed capital were spent on R&D to bring that to fruition just in time to hand all of it to some rubes from Racine.

 

Who's 560 failed? Harvester instituted a massive campaign to stamp triangles on the serial tags of tractors that weren't broken as far as I can discern. My uncle was there, both for the introduction and succession of the New World of Power unlike some people who claim to be authors. He never met any customer with a failed 560 because most of them never made enough power to break whatever it was that allegedly failed. IH even offered a hair dryer kit with a dry element air cleaner system that mounted on the hood later in production because the biggest issues were power and operator convenience as opposed to driveline failure like the Deere 4010's had. Whatever happened was later blamed on insufficient lubrication and filter capacity and remedied by HyTran and better filtration.

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31 minutes ago, Drysleeves said:

Who's 560 failed? Harvester instituted a massive campaign to stamp triangles on the serial tags of tractors that weren't broken as far as I can discern. My uncle was there, both for the introduction and succession of the New World of Power unlike some people who claim to be authors. 

My info comes from an IH book written by a reputable IH author.  This isn't out of a JD book.  Are you questioning the facts or calling the info/author lies?

 

31 minutes ago, Drysleeves said:

At least 1950 if not prior. John McCaffrey chose to direct profits from sales to endeavors not related to furthering the continuance of the core business of his company which turned out to be a fool's errand. As a result, the tractor concept was delayed until 1963. Same aspect with the Sychro Tri Six transmission and it's cousin the power shift destined for the New Farmall for 1985 by a guy IH hired away from Caterpillar. Huge sums of then borrowed capital were spent on R&D to bring that to fruition just in time to hand all of it to some rubes from Racine.

 

 IH didn't start on the 06 series before 1950 or on 1950.

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1 minute ago, Big Bud guy said:

My info comes from an IH book written by a reputable IH author.  This isn't out of a JD book.  Are you questioning the facts or calling the info/author lies?

 

 IH didn't start on the 06 series before 1950 or on 1950.

Actually, they did. Prototypes were developed but essentially abandoned via cash starvation.

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5 minutes ago, Drysleeves said:

Actually, they did. Prototypes were developed but essentially abandoned via cash starvation.

Show some proof.  Show me these prototypes that you could easily trace to the 806 13 years later.  

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My son drove his 460 and I one of my 560's on a local tractor ride Saturday. I happen to own a very late 560 and a very early 706. I enjoy driving the 560 but my observation has always been it has good brakes, but not great brakes. It has good power steering, but not great power steering. It has good hydraulics, but not great hydraulics. All things that cannot be said of the IH 06 or 10 series Deere's. I would have hated to be an IH salesman in 1962-early 1963

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3 hours ago, acem said:

The D282 was a good engine. It was a very good engine when introduced but by the 70s it was dated.

The D312 was a Great engine.  I don't really understand why they were so good but they lasted a really long time.  I expect the D312 and D358 were designed and built during the Apex of German reliability. 

What-cha say about hearing loss???   My tractors don't need no stinking mufflers!!! Huh?  What-cha say?

The 312 wasn’t a german engine design, the 310 was. 

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6 hours ago, Drysleeves said:

At least 1950 if not prior. John McCaffrey chose to direct profits from sales to endeavors not related to furthering the continuance of the core business of his company which turned out to be a fool's errand. As a result, the tractor concept was delayed until 1963. Same aspect with the Sychro Tri Six transmission and it's cousin the power shift destined for the New Farmall for 1985 by a guy IH hired away from Caterpillar. Huge sums of then borrowed capital were spent on R&D to bring that to fruition just in time to hand all of it to some rubes from Racine.

 

Who's 560 failed? Harvester instituted a massive campaign to stamp triangles on the serial tags of tractors that weren't broken as far as I can discern. My uncle was there, both for the introduction and succession of the New World of Power unlike some people who claim to be authors. He never met any customer with a failed 560 because most of them never made enough power to break whatever it was that allegedly failed. IH even offered a hair dryer kit with a dry element air cleaner system that mounted on the hood later in production because the biggest issues were power and operator convenience as opposed to driveline failure like the Deere 4010's had. Whatever happened was later blamed on insufficient lubrication and filter capacity and remedied by HyTran and better filtration.

I thought I heard the stamps were put on serial tags of tractors that had been updated. 

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4 hours ago, jass1660 said:

The 312 wasn’t a german engine design, the 310 was. 

Thanks for noticing my typo.

I fixed it in the original post now.

Guess I need a better proof reader...

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9 minutes ago, acem said:

Thanks for noticing my typo.

I fixed it in the original post now.

Guess I need a better proof reader...

Sure drinking and posting…lol

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11 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  But you have a problem as to what I said.  I offered one explanation as to selling near invoice.  It is possible that both the JD dealer and the IH dealer in my example might have been a bit above list price leaving room to discount heavier.  The farmer in question has been dead for over 25 years now so no asking him.  What is your guess?  

I wasn't calling you a lair by any means.

If you could come up with accurate list prices as a starting point that would help but you chose to be offended 

I would guess the Deere was a little lower list price and the farmer got a great deal.then maybe he rounded off the number or slid some bull$hit into the story but not you

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8 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

lets see - i didnt say anything about a 407 or a 358 or a 310 or a 361 so does that mean i dont think they are any good?

the only thing i said was the 282 sips fuel but got rid of both my 560s cause i just didnt like the power they gave w/out running them WOT - i could get more umph out of a 281

i dont care for the sound of harleys either but i didnt say anything about them so does that mean they are junk?

i like the idea/thot of different technology and i didnt say anything about 2stroke detroits and all the racquet they make maybe that is why were hard of hearing?

id take a 2 stroke dirt bike over a 4 stroke most days just because i like the rippppppppp they have

its likely a matter of taste in many cases - do you like blondes or brunettes ? would you turn down one or the other because of a or b?

you can put green, red, orange, yellow, white, gray, black, blue paint on it and give me all the ones you fellas dont want and even the ones i left out cause i didnt state that color

I LOVE TRACTORS!!!!

I love red ones but a Green 2*50 or 2*55 fwa with loader would be very nice

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27 minutes ago, acem said:

Thanks for noticing my typo.

I fixed it in the original post now.

Guess I need a better proof reader...

How's your glasses .....As I was asked🤣

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1 hour ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

I thought I heard the stamps were put on serial tags of tractors that had been updated. 

Triangle shaped stamp after the axle bearings were flipped. Most of the time it was a remedy for a nonexistent problem.

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3 hours ago, hillman said:

I wasn't calling you a lair by any means.

If you could come up with accurate list prices as a starting point that would help but you chose to be offended 

I would guess the Deere was a little lower list price and the farmer got a great deal.then maybe he rounded off the number or slid some bull$hit into the story but not you

  I'll say the following.  A dealer needing a very quick sale to meet a financial obligation is not unheard of especially in current times.  An area dealer was noted as taking equipment to a local consignment sale and taking a substantial loss (well below what was paid on trade-in) on the equipment because they needed cash.  It was not too long ago that another dealer had to move a couple pieces of equipment to make payroll.  Even dealers can be caught between a rock and a hard place financially from time to time.  

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