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I aint ever physically seen a W4 W6 or any of them western tractors they aint none in Kentucky my home state


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5 hours ago, dale560 said:

100 miles north and narrow front 2 cyl all over the place. Even a few Ms and Hs. Over the years 400 ih front ends were hot commodity for IH narrow replacement. The first wide fronts on the early 39 and 40 model IH were a copy of the F20 wide front with cast tube in center instead of steel. Have seen a couple Ms like that. Up here the 2 cyl guys all had corn for silage years ago so a narrow front was used on cultivator.

This is 1 M I have.  Cast front center and uprights from the spindles.  My other 3 have the regular steel tube type of IH front.

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2 hours ago, dale560 said:

You are right about loader tractors but they were better than a pitchfork. 

We used our M and Farmhand up into the 80s until we got our first bale wagon.  And that’s even after putting a loader on the 4020.  Kinda surprised of some of these comments.  Ms were damn good loader tractors for their time

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6 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

We used our M and Farmhand up into the 80s until we got our first bale wagon.  And that’s even after putting a loader on the 4020.  Kinda surprised of some of these comments. 

We have an M that had the added distrubutor gear driven pump and power steering. It has a DuAll loader. It worked well except that the loader hydraulics were slow. Eventually the shaft for the pump broke so we took the pump and power steering off and added a pto pump. After we lost the live power we sure wished we still had it even if it was slow. After we removed the pump we found that the pressure relief valve had been removed and a bolt put in it's place so it had no bypass. 

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28 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

This is 1 M I have.  Cast front center and uprights from the spindles.  My other 3 have the regular steel tube type of IH front.

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Is that an early m or did somebody replace front end on it. Just wondering if date code on front tube matches rest of tractor

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2 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

We have an M that had the added distrubutor gear driven pump and power steering. It has a DuAll loader. It worked well except that the loader hydraulics were slow. Eventually the shaft for the pump broke so we took the pump and power steering off and added a pto pump. After we lost the live power we sure wished we still had it even if it was slow. After we removed the pump we found that the pressure relief valve had been removed and a bolt put in it's place so it had no bypass. 

Dad always wanted to get a super w6 bolster to have a straight crank hole then mount a pump up front off crank. Old TCM on here had pics once where he hogged out the cast under radiator and mounted a pump.

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4 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

We have an M that had the added distrubutor gear driven pump and power steering. It has a DuAll loader. It worked well except that the loader hydraulics were slow. Eventually the shaft for the pump broke so we took the pump and power steering off and added a pto pump. After we lost the live power we sure wished we still had it even if it was slow. After we removed the pump we found that the pressure relief valve had been removed and a bolt put in it's place so it had no bypass. 

We never modified our M in any way.  So it was Armstrong power steering and no live pump. 

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I think there were a few W6s around here, but never common.

W9s were around. They were popular power units for sawmills. I don't know if they were purchased new fpr thay applications ot brought in used. But they were well thought of as "sawmill tractors."

Never seen a W4 in the wild.

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23 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Is that an early m or did somebody replace front end on it. Just wondering if date code on front tube matches rest of tractor

Don't remember the year. Here is the tag and some numbers cast or stamped into the right front of the tube. It was this way when I bought it several years ago with an old Farmhand loader on it. Id look up the serial number but im out in the shop working on a car right now.

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20 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

We never modified our M in any way.  So it was Armstrong power steering and no live pump. 

We still have one m with no power steering it has live hydraulics though. When I say we added power steering it was done right. A hand control usually from a 66 series or way back you could by new ones from tsc. Then weld a steering cylinder on front axle so it had power steering not power assist. I was old enough to to run super m on loader without live hydraulics and no power steering. In fact I think they never even stacked hay with it after we put power steering on. We used it for feeding and loading bales.

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6 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

Don't remember the year. Here is the tag and some numbers cast or stamped into the right front of the tube. It was this way when I bought it several years ago with an old Farmhand loader on it. Id look up the serial number but im out in the shop working on a car right now.

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Tough to tell but that front end is not from that year of bell housing. Those tractors were broken in two often so serial no’s on h and ms need to be really looked at. I see it has aftermarket disc brakes. It was common in way back time to have two front ends and swap them for corn cultivating and haying. 

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39 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Is that an early m or did somebody replace front end on it. Just wondering if date code on front tube matches rest of tractor

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread to talk about an old M I bought for $200! I always wondered if this might have been a state or county machine. It seems to have some orange under the multiple layers of red on it. It also has aftermarket disc brakes and a dealer tag on the governor tube. Says Hoffman Motor Sales. This is the only front end like this that I've ever seen. Looks pretty stout. Plan on putting it on the loader M.

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6 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread to talk about an old M I bought for $200! I always wondered if this might have been a state or county machine. It seems to have some orange under the multiple layers of red on it. It also has aftermarket disc brakes and a dealer tag on the governor tube. Says Hoffman Motor Sales. This is the only front end like this that I've ever seen. Looks pretty stout. Plan on putting it on the loader M.

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I have only seen a couple front ends like that. The one was on a early tractor for sure and probably was original. The late f20s used that front end and I wonder how many were robbed of those and put on Ms. On a side note today I dropped my brother off at his work and he said look at that farmall A that was sold a few weeks ago it had an exhaust lift on it to lift a mower.

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39 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I have only seen a couple front ends like that. The one was on a early tractor for sure and probably was original. The late f20s used that front end and I wonder how many were robbed of those and put on Ms. On a side note today I dropped my brother off at his work and he said look at that farmall A that was sold a few weeks ago it had an exhaust lift on it to lift a mower.

Hard to say. I thought maybe it was an industrial front end. But I've never done any research on it. Dad ran an A that was a state tractor with a belly mount sicle mower on it when he worked for the city. But it had a small hydraulic pump that ran off of the generator belt. Basically an old Ford style power steering pump.

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I’m glad that the W4 was popular around here.. I’m even more glad that nobody was dumb enough to buy those hit and miss “poppin johnnys” like you mention. Well, one guy bought one, but everyone else made fun of him. Haha. The row crop tractors were more popular, but the 4 held its own in sales numbers.

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I ran an old JD 2 cylinder diesel, standard, when I worked for a farmer in high school. Don't remember for sure but it might have been a 620 or something similar.  Had the pony motor to start but it didn't run so I had to park it on a hill and let it run down the hill and throw the clutch to start it. I think I spent most of my time standing on the platform steering because with the big fields in our area i pretty much pointed it in the direction it needed to go and never needed brakes. The sound of the diesel popper still makes my ears ring, and by the end of the day I was covered with diesel fuel and oil slobbering from the exhaust.

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3 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

We have an M that had the added distrubutor gear driven pump and power steering. It has a DuAll loader. It worked well except that the loader hydraulics were slow. Eventually the shaft for the pump broke so we took the pump and power steering off and added a pto pump. After we lost the live power we sure wished we still had it even if it was slow. After we removed the pump we found that the pressure relief valve had been removed and a bolt put in it's place so it had no bypass. 

The M here has the distributor mounted pump too. I wanna say dad said the H had it as well. He said about once a year or maybe every 2nd year they would be replacing the pump gear. It was used daily as a loader tractor though too. Only live hyd, no power steering. The M couldn't have been too spectacular because he put a loader on the 660 and used that for years till he bought the 856 and put the loader on it. The M with the loader is still sitting in the same place I always remember it to be. I never did see that one run.

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3 hours ago, dale560 said:

I have only seen a couple front ends like that. The one was on a early tractor for sure and probably was original. The late f20s used that front end and I wonder how many were robbed of those and put on Ms. On a side note today I dropped my brother off at his work and he said look at that farmall A that was sold a few weeks ago it had an exhaust lift on it to lift a mower.

If I remember correctly you are in the northern part of the state. Last spring I went to Sherwood ND to get my snowblower. There is some really flat land north of Minot. Almost like the Red River Valley. Some huge fields in that area. Even in our area a quarter or half section and more would be pretty common. My grandpa farmed 5 quarters at one time with an M. We have rolling hills here but not the rugged country you find to the west of us.

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...never in the history of the Red Power  Forum...has the humble W4 had so much  attention...with its slightly bigger  W6 following on as well...Down under they are plentiful.....as are the W6 models...

In our area there were a lot of W4   tractors on the orchards    (apple...)...and also a slew of T/TD6  crawlers where the slopes got a bit steeper....

There were also orchard model O 4's...with that involved ''tin work ''  .....

We have several examples of each model...no "O's  though ...

Mike

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11 hours ago, hillman said:

believe me I know it we had an H with a loader and W4 with loader

 . To say one was better than the other is a stretch, 

 You guys didn't get the B250 ( 1956) or B275 (1958)? they were light years ahead of brand X utility tractors. if they had decent steering they were the first acceptable loader tractor IMHO

We had the B-275 and B-414 Here in the southeast. Decent tractors but not as well thought of as a Massey 35 or the small Fords. Most were diesels and noted for their hard starting and hard steering.

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Just now, Eason said:

We had the B-275 and B-414 Here in the southeast. Decent tractors but not as well thought of as a Massey 35 or the small Fords. Most were diesels and noted for their hard starting and hard steering.

They actually started well but you had to use the glow plugs everytime. If the operator does not understand this we get the hard starting legend. The early MF 35 tractors with the 4 cylinder diesels are not highly thought of around here, They don't bring much at a sale because they do start hard. Surprisingly the British little tractors still bring OK money around here. I am not saying they are great in today's standards  but in 1956 it was a step in the right direction

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2 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

I’m glad that the W4 was popular around here.. I’m even more glad that nobody was dumb enough to buy those hit and miss “poppin johnnys” like you mention. Well, one guy bought one, but everyone else made fun of him. Haha. The row crop tractors were more popular, but the 4 held its own in sales numbers.

the local John Deere dealer was very small outfit until the 70s, I can only remember 2 local farmers that farmed exclusively with Putt Bang tractors, There was probably more but I was unaware of them. 

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13 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

This is 1 M I have.  Cast front center and uprights from the spindles.  My other 3 have the regular steel tube type of IH front.

20240504_183509.jpg

20240504_183430.jpg

20240504_183416.jpg

This is an original IH wide front end.

They made these both for the H and the M.

These are factory and not aftermarket.

The only ones I know that had the tie rods in front.

 

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On 5/3/2024 at 3:11 PM, hillman said:

I have 47 of the W4,W6 and W9s around here in different conditions from parts tractors to restored amongst my other tractors

Well that's where they all went to!  47 W series tractors??  That is a noteworthy collection, we'd appreciate some pictures!

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There were a few Poppin Johnys round here but many many more Farmalls. I wasn't around when they were currently but a few Farmalls were still in use into the late 80s on neighbors crop farms. There were no Johnys on crop farms as far back as I can remember (early 70s) but several were on cattle farms.

The letter series Farmalls must have sold very well here. There sure were alot of them around when I was a kid.

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56 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

This is an original IH wide front end.

They made these both for the H and the M.

These are factory and not aftermarket.

The only ones I know that had the tie rods in front.

 

This is the only one I've ever seen that was all cast iron. It's not the common IH adjustable width tube steel front end almost every M or H has. I have 3 Ms with the common front end. This one is all IH but completely different than any other M I've ever seen. Aside from the steering that is.

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